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General => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Mr. Analog on December 23, 2020, 05:01:17 PM

Title: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 23, 2020, 05:01:17 PM
So I have two primary systems, my trusty workhorse (Asus Z87 Pro) and my all-in-one gaming rig (Asus ROG G20) I just bought new RAM for my trusty workhorse which is going to improve it quite a bit (both systems are Core i7 BTW) now I'm wondering if I should get my hot little hands on an RTX 3080 and shove it in there for gaming.

I love my ROG G20 but I can't upgrade it due to the small form factor. It runs all the games I have pretty well but there are some things I'd love to check out (like ray tracing, etc) but I'm hesitant to buy a new card for $1700 bucks

What's a nerd to do...
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on December 23, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
Be conscious of power requirements if you purchase the new card.  Make sure your workhorse has enough juice in the PSU to work with the new card!
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on December 23, 2020, 06:18:06 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 23, 2020, 05:21:55 PMBe conscious of power requirements if you purchase the new card.  Make sure your workhorse has enough juice in the PSU to work with the new card!

And sufficient connectors / the correct type / voltage.. unless you go with a low end card most mid to high cards have an extra power connector and the new RTX 30s have a new connector type.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 23, 2020, 07:02:42 PM
I just bought a new 850 watt power supply so I should be good there

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 24, 2020, 09:36:40 PM
Well, I bought a brand new video card LOL

I seriously couldn't resist especially when Christmas pricing brought it down by $200 may God have mercy on my soul

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on December 25, 2020, 12:36:22 PM
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 25, 2020, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 25, 2020, 12:36:22 PMEnjoy!
Oh I will [emoji28]

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Tom on December 26, 2020, 04:15:26 AM
I'm mostly enjoying the RTX 3060 Super I got with my "new" workstation. I think the darn thing is nearly a year old now? sheesh time flies. Sadly theres a hw or firmware conflict between the card and my motherboard that causes lockups in the gpu. So annoying. Nvidia has been aware of it for like 2 years now or more, and didn't bother to even take it seriously till maybe 6-12 months ago. They've made a few fixes in the drivers (I think) and things have been a bit better. Instead of locking up every day or every few days, its like every couple weeks and it's not a complete system lockup, just either the gpu slows down over time or it stops accepting mouse input somehow? meh.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 27, 2020, 04:50:36 PM
I cancelled my order, I'm going to wait for a bigger sale as I have no immediate need for a bigger card anyway

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Tom on December 31, 2020, 12:06:30 PM
If anyone is in somewhat desparate need, I have a working R9 390x. Its not super great, but I have no immedate need of it. It performs similar to a RX 580 or a GTX 1060.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 06:43:47 PM
Ugh RAM doesn't work with my motherboard, I have an ASUS Z87Pro and this is the memory I bought: https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX36561

Nothing I read indicated that it wouldn't be compatible so I dunno what

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 06, 2021, 09:32:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 06:43:47 PMUgh RAM doesn't work with my motherboard, I have an ASUS Z87Pro and this is the memory I bought: https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX36561

Nothing I read indicated that it wouldn't be compatible so I dunno what

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According to https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/Z87PRO/specifications/
QuoteMemory
4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 3000(O.C.)/2933(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666(O.C.)/2600(O.C.)/2500(O.C.)/2400(O.C.)/2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1866(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600/1333 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
Dual Channel Memory Architecture
Supports IntelĀ® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)
* Hyper DIMM support is subject to the physical characteristics of individual CPUs.
* Refer to www.asus.com for the Memory QVL (Qualified Vendors Lists).

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX36561 is PC3-12800 (1600MHz) RAM so it should work.

Only thing I can think of is that you are adding the ram to existing ram and they don't play together?
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:36:56 PM
That's what I thought but I removed all the sticks and attempted install on two slots then four and it wouldn't even give me a boot code

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 06, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:36:56 PMThat's what I thought but I removed all the sticks and attempted install on two slots then four and it wouldn't even give me a boot code

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If you are not populating ALL 4 of the slots VERY SPECIFIC slots need to be populated for it to work.

The manual for your board shows slots A2 and B2 should be populated if only populating 2 out of the 4 slots.

Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on January 06, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:36:56 PMThat's what I thought but I removed all the sticks and attempted install on two slots then four and it wouldn't even give me a boot code

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If you not populating ALL 4 of the slots VERY SPECIFIC slots need to be populated for it to work.

The manual for your board shows slots A2 and B2 should be populated if only populating 2 out of the 4 slots.
Hmm I thought I tried that but maybe I picked the wrong slots?

Not sure why all 4 wouldn't allow though

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 06, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
We can look when I am over... :D
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:49:26 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 06, 2021, 09:47:35 PMWe can look when I am over... :D
Coo

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 06, 2021, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:41:06 PMNot sure why all 4 wouldn't allow though


4 should work fine but who knows if there is one bad module or one or two that are not seated correctly.

Sounds like you have expert support coming over so you should be set ;)
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on January 06, 2021, 09:53:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 06, 2021, 09:41:06 PMNot sure why all 4 wouldn't allow though


4 should work fine but who knows if there is one bad module or one or two that are not seated correctly.

Sounds like you have expert support coming over so you should be set ;)
Hehe yeah. Here's hoping

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 07, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
Woke up today with a bit of a sore throat and slight cough.  Did you still want me to come by or see if I get better by the weekend?
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 07, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 07, 2021, 10:09:32 AMWoke up today with a bit of a sore throat and slight cough.  Did you still want me to come by or see if I get better by the weekend?
Weekend is fine, I hope you feel better soon!

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 01:36:22 PM
Doing some reading and my RAM issue might be BIOS related. I'm gonna flash it tonight and see what happens

How you feeling Mel? Still up for the weekend?

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 08, 2021, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 01:36:22 PMDoing some reading and my RAM issue might be BIOS related. I'm gonna flash it tonight and see what happens

How you feeling Mel? Still up for the weekend?

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Yep feeling much better today thanks!
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
So if I put two sticks of RAM in it works but if I put all four in it doesn't, I'm starting to think this is a motherboard hardware issue

Here's a link to the manual, I have the 16 GB kit installed in the A2 and B2 slots as shown in the diagram in section 1.2.4, when I try putting in the other kit the mobo won't pass the RAM check

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-PRO/E8489_Z87-PRO.pdf

Kinda frustrating...
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 08, 2021, 05:29:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 04:37:48 PMSo if I put two sticks of RAM in it works but if I put all four in it doesn't, I'm starting to think this is a motherboard hardware issue

Here's a link to the manual, I have the 16 GB kit installed in the A2 and B2 slots as shown in the diagram in section 1.2.4, when I try putting in the other kit the mobo won't pass the RAM check

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/Z87-PRO/E8489_Z87-PRO.pdf

Kinda frustrating...

Do BOTH kits work when populated ONLY in A2 and B2 if you swap both out?

Are both KITS exactly the same?
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 05:34:24 PM
Yes and yes unfortunately :/
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 08, 2021, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 05:34:24 PMYes and yes unfortunately :/
I can be a MHz speed or CL issue.  I've seen that before where the faster ram should down clock to the other ram, but not always.  Its actually not a good practice to mix MHz or CLs in RAM, for a few reasons.  This could be the problem.  We'll look tomorrow when I come by :D.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 05:59:44 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 08, 2021, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 08, 2021, 05:34:24 PMYes and yes unfortunately :/
I can be a MHz speed or CL issue.  I've seen that before where the faster ram should down clock to the other ram, but not always.  Its actually not a good practice to mix MHz or CLs in RAM, for a few reasons.  This could be the problem.  We'll look tomorrow when I come by :D.

Datum sounds good to me
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 08:56:52 AM
@Melbosa what time do you figure you'll be over?

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 09, 2021, 10:07:33 AM
@Mr. Analog sometime after 1PM.  Text you more when I have a definite time.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 09, 2021, 10:07:33 AM@Mr. Analog sometime after 1PM.  Text you more when I have a definite time.
Sounds good [emoji106]

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 03:05:50 PM
RAM issue solved, it may not have been seated properly when I did it twice. Either that or I changed memory profiles in BIOS this morning and didn't check to see if that worked.

Either way I've got 32 GB of memory and a working kickass vid card
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Holy moly this card is outta this world. Runs Cyberpunk like nothing

My only concern is the amount of heat being generated is significantly higher than my old 1080

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 09, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Yeah my 3090 gens a lot of heat too.  But at least its pointed away from your CPU/Memory lol.  Never seen a CPU fan like yours be right next to and point at the memory.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 04:15:02 PM
LOL yeah

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 09, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
Your EVGA 3080 is way more LED lighty than my 3090 lol, just an observation
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 09, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 09, 2021, 05:06:12 PMYour EVGA 3080 is way more LED lighty than my 3090 lol, just an observation
Sparkle magic!

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 10, 2021, 01:40:25 PM
According to your previous posts you have the Z87-PRO

1 x CPU Fan connector(s) (1 x 4 -pin)
1 x CPU OPT Fan connector(s) (1 x 4 -pin)
4 x Chassis Fan connector(s) (4 x 4 -pin)

There should be a utility from ASUS to let you control the fans and see temps from the CPU and main board in windows.

Not sure what case you have (you have several threads going LOL) but I am sure Melbosa could make recommendations as well if you have a good case and just need more fans or to balance your air flow.

ALso if any of your existing fans are incorrectly mounted that would be bad lol.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 10, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
Asus has AI Suite but it's not compatible with my motherboard unfortunately. I'm not sure what a good alternative would be yet as I haven't gone looking.

As for fans I have a fairly large exhaust and two intake fans, stupidly the heat sink I have is pointed at my RAM.

Maybe I'm worried about nothing, it's just the amount of heat being given off was noticeable when I was playing Cyberpunk last night (and it was just talking scenes no action) I have my keyboard set to change color based on temperature and I've never seen it go so red before. The top of the case was very hot to the touch which makes me think a new case is in order

Today I was playing Mafia Definitive Edition and the heat given off was moderate but that's not really a game that pushes anything hard either

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 10, 2021, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on January 10, 2021, 02:23:16 PMAsus has AI Suite but it's not compatible with my motherboard unfortunately.

Odd since ASUS has it listed on your board page. (maybe your bios is not up to date?)

>stupidly the heat sink I have is pointed at my RAM.

That is normal and really not a bad thing.

>Maybe I'm worried about nothing, it's just the amount of heat being given off was noticeable when I was playing Cyberpunk last night

Really need the numbers from the board, CPU, and GPU to know..
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 10, 2021, 05:05:36 PM
Strange I don't see AI Suite listed in the support software page

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/Z87PRO/HelpDesk_Download/

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Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 10, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Cyberpunk will push your Vid and CPU.  This is the main reason I am waiting for a CPU Water Cooling kit from Dell as it pushes my i9 10900 over 100*C with just the fan solution in my Alienware Auroa R11, my 3090 hits about 80*C.  I had put in aftermarket Fans in the R11 and my USB controller shutdown due to heat because the aftermarkets wouldn't cycle up fast and far enough to keep the case cool.  Had to go back to the stock ones from Alienware.

So moral is Cyberpunk will push your system hard, hardest I've seen a game push a computer in a long time.

For a monitoring software try: https://www.nzxt.com/camapp, even though it may look like its meant for NZXT products it works with most system board sensors.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Melbosa on January 10, 2021, 06:23:27 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on January 10, 2021, 04:08:41 PM>stupidly the heat sink I have is pointed at my RAM.

That is normal and really not a bad thing.

Actually its not the Heat Sink, his CPU fan exhausts to the front of the case, over the RAM.  Usually it would exhaust upwards, or out the back of the case, depending on the type of Heat Sink.  I've never encountered one that exhausts forward to the front of the case, and moved hot air over the RAM.  Its like it was installed backwards.

Most of the time your exhaust direction is Front in to Back/Top out.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Lazybones on January 10, 2021, 08:08:46 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on January 10, 2021, 06:23:27 PMI've never encountered one that exhausts forward to the front of the case, and moved hot air over the RAM.  Its like it was installed backwards.

Most of the time your exhaust direction is Front in to Back/Top out.

O I thought it was blowing DOWN as most stock heat sink / fan units blow down and only the big tower units blow in a direction other than that...

If it is blowing from the rear to the front it that is odd. It may just be installed backwards or have different mounting options and the wrong one was selected? Maybe the fan mount can be reversed?

Regardless of case that should be corrected, blowing down on the chip, back or up are the only directions that make any sense.
Title: Re: Upgrading RAM dare I upgrade my video card?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 11, 2021, 09:10:55 AM
Yeah I agree it's a little wonky. This machine is a pre-built from MemEx I only ever open it up for cleaning so I never really thought about it until Melbosa was over on Saturday and remarked on it.

Guess that's another thing for my upgrade list lol

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