Anyone working with 3D printers at all? I have been tinkering a lot lately and was thinking of getting one for personal use, however my research so far shows them to be inconstant, expensive and a PITA.
My requirements / wish list kind of goes like this (assumes an extrude style printer):
- Self levelling
- heated bed
- interchangeable print head diameters
- wide material compatibility (high heat head)
- Preferably hackable / upgradable not 100% proprietary.
- Under $2000 CAD, preferably under $1000 but dependant on features
Nice to have:
- Dual material support
What do I actually want to make out of it?
- enclosures for electronics projects
- models / figures for kids craft projects
- generally messing around...
I think price and reliability / quality are going to keep me from pulling the trigger but I am curious if anyone here is looking into it as well.
Ended up jumping in and getting one.
Original RepRap Prusa i3 MK2S
https://www.voxelfactory.com/collections/3d-printers/products/original-reprap-prusa-i3-mk2-diy-kit
Went with VF to avoid currency and Import costs. Long wait times to get this one but it has huge community support.
The Monoprice printers are also supposed to be very good, they just started releasing a new series.
FYI It took between 8-10 hrs to assemble and then a lot of fine tuning..
Got a Monoprice on Prime Day, the deal they had on was irresistible.
Started the first print. Not sure how long it'll take.
Quote from: Tom on July 17, 2017, 07:19:17 PM
Got a Monoprice on Prime Day, the deal they had on was irresistible.
Started the first print. Not sure how long it'll take.
I noticed that the manual shows setup for a VERY VERY old version of Cura.. I assume your first print is off of the SD card.. I would check into profiles for the printer with the latest version of Cure or Slic3r Prusa Edition.
While your print is running you should probably check out https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMakersMuse he has some great getting started videos and in general covers all sorts of 3D printing how to stuff.
Yeah, I just went checking out tools for Linux, and the first one on the list is the latest Cura, and I've been subscribed to TheMakersMuse for a little while now. so far this cat print is going well, but the sample pla it came with may not be enough.. or if it is, it'll be JUST enough. so I ordered some white and black which should get here by weds.
That first layer it puts down to separate the print from the bed was a tad iffy, but it ended up being workable. I /may/ need to adjust the bed some more, but the cat is turning out pretty good so far.
Even with my printers levelling sensor it still needed dialling in.
Other than amazon.ca sources I found https://seacans.com PLA prints well and due to proximity shipping is cheap and fast.
I have some PETG on order from Amazon, I want to try printing some more temperature durable things without any stink.
Also as a warning the new Cura defaults to 3mm diameter filament, you need to change it to 1.75mm.
Slic3r prusa edition can also be used with almost any printer if you can find profiles for it.
I got a couple spools from amazon with free 1 day shipping for $25 and $27.
Let me know if you have any general questions... After getting a few prints in I setup Octoprint on a raspberry Pi to control the printer, and later on added a camera to remotely monitor prints.
Main issue right now is usb doesn't want to work. it wasn't assigned a driver on linux, then it started having usb errors :(
Quote from: Tom on July 18, 2017, 11:45:33 AM
Main issue right now is usb doesn't want to work. it wasn't assigned a driver on linux, then it started having usb errors :(
It should just be a USB serial COM device that runs at about 115200 baud nothing fancy it will probably be running an 8bit processor. I would check OctoPrint forums about setting up the Monorpice mini as they will likely contain general linux troubleshooting on how to get it connected.
Generally on low end printers like these you use them one of three ways. 1. Run from SD card independently via sneaker net by dumping .gcode files from your slicer. 2 You tether them to the PC and the Slicer DIRECTLY sends each serial command real time... This can be a problem if you lose power or your PC falls asleep. 3. You setup a print server like Octoprint/Astroprint/Repetier-Server on a dedicated Raspberry Pi or PC and tether that to the printer.
In my case I setup octoprint on a Pi.. The nice thing about octoprint is that it has an API so Cura and Slicer can just send the gcode directly to octoprint after slicing over Wifi.
FYI, while the option exists in most firmware to to tether via USB and save to the SD card. The slow process and baud rate makes it MANY times slower than just taking the SD card out and coping it directly over.
None of the Linux USB com/serial drivers would claim it. It now can't be detected at all. The usb port was misaligned.. And something may have bent :(
Well the monoprice printer does have a warranty and support for 1 year I believe.
As for USB support on my Raspberry pi my printer is just /dev/ttyACM0
Yeah, it wasn't picking up the printer with the acm driver for some reason. Then I managed to somehow break the usb port. sigh.
Got my black and white pla in :D I'ma have some fun.
Ugh. Apparently theres a small lip inside the extruder that causes the filament to not want to go in without a struggle. And the actual extruder likes to jam quite badly. I tried jamming all the filament in there when it was up at 210c, and nada. So I try to pull the bowden tube, and me, being a NOOB, I pull UP on the retention ring on the tube fitting. Turns out that irreparably destroys it. *sigh* Good thing replacements are cheap.
But now I can't play with my new toy again for a few days :(
I really aught to look harder for instructions when messing with this stuff.
Yep. I tend to do a lot of searching before doing when I have problems these days.
Yup. I was dumb. Young dumb and ugly as it were.
I ordered the little parts needed, though its coming as an entire kit cause i wanted it right away instead of in a month. so it was more expensive and has stuff in it i don't care about. oh well.
I decided as well, that since this print head is so dumb, I'm upgrading to an E3D print head as one of my next prints (after some calibration runs for the stock config). I'll probably make a couple comparison prints as well.
The E3D from amazon/china costs very little as well. Like $25. A proper non clone is more like $60, but even that I'd say is worth it, but I wanted it /now/ lol.
Huh, apparently my kernel was missing the cdc_acm driver. Now it shows up. Silly me.
Hopefully you ordered the correct parts and are basing it on a guide someone posted.
Filament diameter, the fact your printer is a Bowden style extruder and if you purchased heater block that it is the correct voltage 12v or 24v
Quote from: Lazybones on July 20, 2017, 08:56:25 AM
Hopefully you ordered the correct parts and are basing it on a guide someone posted.
Filament diameter, the fact your printer is a Bowden style extruder and if you purchased heater block that it is the correct voltage 12v or 24v
Should have. Though I'll double check the voltage...
Yup, voltage is fine. it is bowden, and theres a couple different adapters I can use.
It's alive! I got and installed some BuildTak on thursday. new bowden tube fitting arrived and got installed yesterday. And I finished up the settings for the latest cura that seem to be working rather well so far with a x/y calibration test print.
Before I work on the hotend upgrades, I'll try to get this one dialed in, print a bunch of comparison pieces and do a nice comparison after.
I would probably leave the hot-end alone unless you have actual issues, keeping it as a spare.
In the mean time you might want to get used to one of the modeling tools so you can start printing useful custom things..
I am still waiting for parts for my projects which is making me sad...
Quote from: Lazybones on July 22, 2017, 02:54:41 PM
I would probably leave the hot-end alone unless you have actual issues, keeping it as a spare.
In the mean time you might want to get used to one of the modeling tools so you can start printing useful custom things..
I am still waiting for parts for my projects which is making me sad...
Yeah, we'll see how it does. If its good enough to start, I'll keep the original. A lot of people reccomend upgrading the hotend as one of the first things you do to the mp select mini 3d v2.
Mah extruder got all kinds of jammed last night. Looks like the filament got a little melty and curled into an area between the nozzle opening and the ptfe filler tube. The design of this extruder/hot-end is pretty terribad. Very prone to jams.
Also of note, white filament apparently has some of the most inconsistent results due to what they put in it to make it white. Or so I have read... Seems true as the spool of white I have is the only one that gives me regular issues. However it is also the easiest to paint.
Also calibrating at least each brand of filament for "your printers" temps is important. I have about 3 brands now and did. Some tests and temperature towers. Some would not extrude at full speed at 210 and need 215 or 220 on my printer.
If you look at how to make a temperature tower in cura it can be very helpful to crate a profile for a given filament.
I've been doing a lot of tweaking with this. In fact, thats what caused the jam. I turned up the retraction distance and speed, it was still a little soft, and there may have been a lip or gap around the ptfe spacer tube and that got it all gummed up.
I'm printing the Maker's Muse torture cube/lattice right now. I'm getting some burring that I haven't quite figured out yet. But over all its rather good.
Been trying to set up octoprint's video stream, but i'm not sure what format it wants. tried http and rtp stream from vlc... blah. Not finding any particularly relevant information on how to set it up on something that's not an octopi or beaglebone.
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
Been trying to set up octoprint's video stream, but i'm not sure what format it wants. tried http and rtp stream from vlc... blah. Not finding any particularly relevant information on how to set it up on something that's not an octopi or beaglebone.
It isn't clear to me, are you trying to get video INTO octoprint our OUT? The stream / webcam function mostly assume a locally connected USB camera, and octoprint does three things with it, 1 displays it on the control screen, 2 exposes it as an image or live steam URL via FFMPEG or 3 records a time-lapse.. I am not sure it is really meant to ACCEPT streams in anyway way.
Quote from: Lazybones on July 23, 2017, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
Been trying to set up octoprint's video stream, but i'm not sure what format it wants. tried http and rtp stream from vlc... blah. Not finding any particularly relevant information on how to set it up on something that's not an octopi or beaglebone.
It isn't clear to me, are you trying to get video INTO octoprint our OUT? The stream / webcam function mostly assume a locally connected USB camera, and octoprint does three things with it, 1 displays it on the control screen, 2 exposes it as an image or live steam URL via FFMPEG or 3 records a time-lapse.. I am not sure it is really meant to ACCEPT streams in anyway way.
It seemed to be asking for a url to stream from. Octopi has all this stuff set up, so the default /live exists already I think. But since i'm just running it as a test on my desktop, there is nothing set up automatically.
It says "Webcam stream not loaded; It might not be correctly configured. You can change the url of the stream under... If you don't have a webcam just set the url to be an empty value". Which makes me think it needs a url to stream the video from.
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on July 23, 2017, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
Been trying to set up octoprint's video stream, but i'm not sure what format it wants. tried http and rtp stream from vlc... blah. Not finding any particularly relevant information on how to set it up on something that's not an octopi or beaglebone.
It isn't clear to me, are you trying to get video INTO octoprint our OUT? The stream / webcam function mostly assume a locally connected USB camera, and octoprint does three things with it, 1 displays it on the control screen, 2 exposes it as an image or live steam URL via FFMPEG or 3 records a time-lapse.. I am not sure it is really meant to ACCEPT streams in anyway way.
It seemed to be asking for a url to stream from. Octopi has all this stuff set up, so the default /live exists already I think. But since i'm just running it as a test on my desktop, there is nothing set up automatically.
It says "Webcam stream not loaded; It might not be correctly configured. You can change the url of the stream under... If you don't have a webcam just set the url to be an empty value". Which makes me think it needs a url to stream the video from.
It depends on FFMPEG to generate the stream. So if you did a raw install I would assume you would need to configure that part or at least have the needed FFMPEG dependancies installed
Quote from: Lazybones on July 23, 2017, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on July 23, 2017, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
Been trying to set up octoprint's video stream, but i'm not sure what format it wants. tried http and rtp stream from vlc... blah. Not finding any particularly relevant information on how to set it up on something that's not an octopi or beaglebone.
It isn't clear to me, are you trying to get video INTO octoprint our OUT? The stream / webcam function mostly assume a locally connected USB camera, and octoprint does three things with it, 1 displays it on the control screen, 2 exposes it as an image or live steam URL via FFMPEG or 3 records a time-lapse.. I am not sure it is really meant to ACCEPT streams in anyway way.
It seemed to be asking for a url to stream from. Octopi has all this stuff set up, so the default /live exists already I think. But since i'm just running it as a test on my desktop, there is nothing set up automatically.
It says "Webcam stream not loaded; It might not be correctly configured. You can change the url of the stream under... If you don't have a webcam just set the url to be an empty value". Which makes me think it needs a url to stream the video from.
It depends on FFMPEG to generate the stream. So if you did a raw install I would assume you would need to configure that part or at least have the needed FFMPEG dependancies installed
Theres no place to set up ffmpeg for the stream or to select a device to stream from. The "path to ffmpeg" setting is under the snapshots section, so it seems its only used for snapshots. Theres some mjpg_streamer thing that its supposed to use, but also no place to set that up as well, and I can't currently install one of the necessary compile dependencies.
It is SO easy to jam this janky print head. And any time I have to take it apart, I have to re level the bed. so annoying.
Probably least convenient thing. As well as there isn't a dedicated height adjustment on the bed. the levelling screws are the only bed adjustment, so height changes necessitate levelling.
Quote from: Tom on July 24, 2017, 10:03:56 AM
It is SO easy to jam this janky print head. And any time I have to take it apart, I have to re level the bed. so annoying.
Probably least convenient thing. As well as there isn't a dedicated height adjustment on the bed. the levelling screws are the only bed adjustment, so height changes necessitate levelling.
Well it might be worth changing then
Well my first roll of PETG (better for functional prints, more heat resistant less brittle.) arrived, I also have a role of TPU (flexible)on order.
Both of these filaments have are risk of SUPER bonding with PEI beds so it will be interesting to see how they print.
Darn thing cant seem to keep its temperature up when ambient is "low" (thermometer in the kitchen says 21c). Its probably a bit cooler than that in here.
Hm, my build plate may be warped a bit. Not sure if its because its a thin piece of aluminium and heat can warp them pretty good, or its just the retention/mounting method somehow warps it... It seems the corners like to be higher than the center. Hrm.
I was having some serious issues getting any kind of adhesion for a while, but i think I fixed it.. maybe.
Quote from: Tom on July 25, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
Darn thing cant seem to keep its temperature up when ambient is "low" (thermometer in the kitchen says 21c). Its probably a bit cooler than that in here.
Check if there is PID tuning guide / option for that printer. This helps them maintain temp and normally something you need to do if you change hot ends.
Also check if the part cooling fan is blowing on the part or aimed the heater / tip. It might be cooling the wrong thing if misaligned / badly designed.
Good idea. I'll look at the pid tuning.
I also royally jammed up my nozzle. Not sure If I'll go with the solvent approach or the torch approach. We'll see. I might be able to use the nozzle from the new hotend temporarily.
Sorry to hear you are having so many challenges. That printer comes fairly well recommended at the entry level.
Quote from: Lazybones on July 26, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Sorry to hear you are having so many challenges. That printer comes fairly well recommended at the entry level.
Oh, its actually been pretty good. Nozzle clogs are a pretty common occurrence in 3d printer land from what I've heard.
Some of the issues are definitely PEBKAC. Some are that its an inexpensive printer, and doesn't have the /best/ design. But over all I'm pretty happy with it for $260~cad. It's pretty sturdy, and just has a few minor niggles which can be remedied :)
Clogging do happen but should not be frequent unless the cause is not identified.
Sounds like you are researching on forums specific to your printer so hopefully you sort it out.
So you can move on to more fun things
Quote from: Lazybones on July 26, 2017, 09:08:06 AM
Clogging do happen but should not be frequent unless the cause is not identified.
Sounds like you are researching on forums specific to your printer so hopefully you sort it out.
So you can move on to more fun things
Yeah, I'm learning as I go. :)
Yay, it wasn't the nozzle after all. Just the usual jam in the print head.
once I get a decent set of settings, I'll be printing the adapter for the E3D hotend and swapping. The stock one jams when I look at it funny. :D course not everyone has that issue. I just tend to be hard on my stuff.
Once I took a look at the bowden tube fitting, i noticed it had a lip or burr on the inside, that may have caused the increased amount of jamming. we'll see. I drilled it out a bit.
I have been messing with this thing so much the past few days. Oy. I have had clogs in that separator tube SO many times. So annoying. But, it may have been partially PEBKAC. I had turned the fan down at some point, as its loud AF and rattles like mad. But it may not have been enough cooling, and was causing heat creep making the pla soft /outside/ of the actual extruder, which let it coil up inside the ptfe tube and bowden tube fitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M6e9e-NzOA
Got it all fixed. The tip was also clogged after all that. After a bit of playing with heat and filament, and a drill, its all clean ;D
It's running a stringing test and working well again so far. It took some time to get the bed levelled this time for some reason. Good thing I found this neat little model for helping with bed levelling. Still got some slight adhesion issues around left and right, but it could just be the bed being warped.
The next real print I do is the adaptor for the E3D extruder.
Quote from: Tom on July 27, 2017, 05:26:58 PM
I have been messing with this thing so much the past few days. Oy. I have had clogs in that separator tube SO many times. So annoying. But, it may have been partially PEBKAC. I had turned the fan down at some point, as its loud AF and rattles like mad. But it may not have been enough cooling, and was causing heat creep making the pla soft /outside/ of the actual extruder, which let it coil up inside the ptfe tube and bowden tube fitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M6e9e-NzOA
Got it all fixed. The tip was also clogged after all that. After a bit of playing with heat and filament, and a drill, its all clean ;D
It's running a stringing test and working well again so far. It took some time to get the bed levelled this time for some reason. Good thing I found this neat little model for helping with bed levelling. Still got some slight adhesion issues around left and right, but it could just be the bed being warped.
The next real print I do is the adaptor for the E3D extruder.
Be careful, if the adaptor is close to the hot end or touches the cooling fins it probably has to be printed with ABS or maybe PETG. PLA will probably melt.
Quote from: Lazybones on July 27, 2017, 06:05:15 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 27, 2017, 05:26:58 PM
I have been messing with this thing so much the past few days. Oy. I have had clogs in that separator tube SO many times. So annoying. But, it may have been partially PEBKAC. I had turned the fan down at some point, as its loud AF and rattles like mad. But it may not have been enough cooling, and was causing heat creep making the pla soft /outside/ of the actual extruder, which let it coil up inside the ptfe tube and bowden tube fitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M6e9e-NzOA
Got it all fixed. The tip was also clogged after all that. After a bit of playing with heat and filament, and a drill, its all clean ;D
It's running a stringing test and working well again so far. It took some time to get the bed levelled this time for some reason. Good thing I found this neat little model for helping with bed levelling. Still got some slight adhesion issues around left and right, but it could just be the bed being warped.
The next real print I do is the adaptor for the E3D extruder.
Be careful, if the adaptor is close to the hot end or touches the cooling fins it probably has to be printed with ABS or maybe PETG. PLA will probably melt.
Good point. I'll have to check.
I'm going to attempt the swap with pla. managing to find a time to print abs or petg myself will be fun. and some people have had decent luck with pla to begin with.
It may be enough to allow me to use the new hotend while waiting for a more robust material. I have ordered some PETG, as ABS is not an option to print at home with for the near future.
Printed this last night. Came out OK. Shows I need to tweak things a little.
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 10:50:46 AM
Printed this last night. Came out OK. Shows I need to tweak things a little.
Turned out fairly good.
Reminds me of this https://learn.adafruit.com/talking-d20-20-sided-gaming-die/overview
You may also want to check out some of these dice towers https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=dice+tower
Quote from: Lazybones on July 28, 2017, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 10:50:46 AM
Printed this last night. Came out OK. Shows I need to tweak things a little.
Turned out fairly good.
Reminds me of this https://learn.adafruit.com/talking-d20-20-sided-gaming-die/overview
I looked at that model, thought about it. But wanted a quicker print :D
I think Cura has a time estimator it it but I don't recall if it is very good.
I like to drop the gcode into these tools before I print larger stuff to get a good idea on how much time they will take.
http://gcode.ws/# or http://www.gcodeanalyser.com/
Still highly variable, on multi hour prints I find the above two to be accurate to within 20-30min.
Hm, yeah, cura estimated 7h26m for this adapter print, but ended up taking 9h20m. So I think I'll have to take your advice on that for sure.
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 11:52:25 AM
Hm, yeah, cura estimated 7h26m for this adapter print, but ended up taking 9h20m. So I think I'll have to take your advice on that for sure.
Time estimates are actually surprisingly hard as the printer it self has rate limiting in it to prevent going over certain accelerations etc.
The head is constantly speeding up and slowing down so the amount of time it spends at the allowed maximum is sometimes low and and starting and stopping too fast can shake the hell out of the printer.
Quote from: Lazybones on July 28, 2017, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 11:52:25 AM
Hm, yeah, cura estimated 7h26m for this adapter print, but ended up taking 9h20m. So I think I'll have to take your advice on that for sure.
Time estimates are actually surprisingly hard as the printer it self has rate limiting in it to prevent going over certain accelerations etc.
The head is constantly speeding up and slowing down so the amount of time it spends at the allowed maximum is sometimes low and and starting and stopping too fast can shake the hell out of the printer.
It doesn't help cura doesnt have a built in profile for this printer. So whatever settings I have set are what it has to go by.
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 11:57:42 AM
It doesn't help cura doesnt have a built in profile for this printer. So whatever settings I have set are what it has to go by.
Finding good community profiles should not be hard.
https://github.com/BobRyan530/mp_select_mini
Quote from: Lazybones on July 28, 2017, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: Tom on July 28, 2017, 11:57:42 AM
It doesn't help cura doesnt have a built in profile for this printer. So whatever settings I have set are what it has to go by.
Finding good community profiles should not be hard.
https://github.com/BobRyan530/mp_select_mini
Sadly the linux version is distributed in a AppImage bundle and won't look outside of itself for other files so I have to enter things manually.
I contacted Monoprice about the broken usb, and they were willing to send a replacement, but I mentioned the warped build plate, and now they want to do a swap. So I'll probably be out a printer for a couple weeks at least :(
SAD.
That said I've heard they are out of V1s, and may send a V2 as a replacement which has a much better print head.
I can not get gcode.ws to make an estimate for the benchy I just sliced :( :sad:
Cura says about an hour, so I bet it'll be like 1:30 or 2:00
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
I can not get gcode.ws to make an estimate for the benchy I just sliced :( :sad:
Cura says about an hour, so I bet it'll be like 1:30 or 2:00
There is http://www.gcodeanalyser.com/ as well.
FYI for a recap on materials I have sort of narrowed down to two sources.
https://seacans.com for PLA but due to shipping Amazon might be cheaper for you in Alberta.. It prints well and for me gets delivered in 2-3 business days.
https://www.amazon.ca/MG-Chemicals-Printer-Filament-IMPROVED/dp/B018MG4PF4/ MG Chemicals for PETG.. but you have to use a price tracker to watch for sales, it goes crazy cheap at times and over all is WAY cheaper than any other place I have found for PETG https://ca.camelcamelcamel.com/MG-Chemicals-Printer-Filament-IMPROVED/product/B018MG4PF4
Dialing in your temps and settings for a material is important to get the most consistent quality so settling down on specific brands helps a bit.
Seacans did a run down of Canadian filament suppliers (note some are out of Alberta)
https://seacans.com/blogs/news/what-is-the-best-canadian-3d-filament-supplier
Quote from: Lazybones on August 18, 2017, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
I can not get gcode.ws to make an estimate for the benchy I just sliced :( :sad:
Cura says about an hour, so I bet it'll be like 1:30 or 2:00
There is http://www.gcodeanalyser.com/ as well.
Tried that as well, but it gets me some insane length of time. Not sure what values I need to enter for all the settings there. I tried just matching cura settings to the form, but it didn't seem to help.
I ordered some PETG from Spool3d.ca for reasons I can't quite recall atm. Haven't used it yet. but will soon. :D
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on August 18, 2017, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
I can not get gcode.ws to make an estimate for the benchy I just sliced :( :sad:
Cura says about an hour, so I bet it'll be like 1:30 or 2:00
There is http://www.gcodeanalyser.com/ as well.
Tried that as well, but it gets me some insane length of time. Not sure what values I need to enter for all the settings there. I tried just matching cura settings to the form, but it didn't seem to help.
I leave it at the defaults as the printer settings them selves only act to limit things if they go over an extreme.. The gcode it self dictates the moves and speed.
Benchy is a good test to do over all performance testing of find detail.
If you just want to dial in speed and dimension accuracy the xyz cube can be printed very quickly https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1278865
Check these numbers out:
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 12:06:40 PM
I can not get gcode.ws to make an estimate for the benchy I just sliced :( :sad:
Cura says about an hour, so I bet it'll be like 1:30 or 2:00
Ya, there is something VERY wrong in your slicer settings somewhere.
I'll try reimporting from the cat model and see if that helps.
Printed quite well for almost no printer calibration (minor bed levelling with a piece of printer paper), and some settings I had setup for the old V1 printer.
Took 1:31. About what I figured based on what I remembered from cura's estimates with the V1.
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 01:04:26 PM
Printed quite well for almost no printer calibration (minor bed levelling with a piece of printer paper), and some settings I had setup for the old V1 printer.
Took 1:31. About what I figured based on what I remembered from cura's estimates with the V1.
Not bad, looks like you have zits/lumps at the layer changes which indicates that retraction or extrusion settings are not quite dialed in..
I would hunt around for a more current set of printer / extruder settings for your printer and also maybe reset everything in cura just to be sure you didn't introduce anything previously.
The fact the previewers could not generate a preview and proper estimate makes me think there is an invalid value somewhere... The printer firmware will just ignore such an error with its firmware limit values but the gcode still has something odd in it.
Quote from: Lazybones on August 18, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 01:04:26 PM
Printed quite well for almost no printer calibration (minor bed levelling with a piece of printer paper), and some settings I had setup for the old V1 printer.
Took 1:31. About what I figured based on what I remembered from cura's estimates with the V1.
Not bad, looks like you have zits/lumps at the layer changes which indicates that retraction or extrusion settings are not quite dialed in..
I would hunt around for a more current set of printer / extruder settings for your printer and also maybe reset everything in cura just to be sure you didn't introduce anything previously.
The fact the previewers could not generate a preview and proper estimate makes me think there is an invalid value somewhere... The printer firmware will just ignore such an error with its firmware limit values but the gcode still has something odd in it.
Yeah, I've created a new printer in cura, and set up the defaults for the main profiles. printing the calibration cube now with fine 0.1mm quality. I might do another benchy at draft again with these settings to see what's up.
I sliced a new benchy with the new settings, and it worked fine. though its guessing 2h instead of the previous 1:30 it took. so we'll see what settings changed.
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 01:53:21 PM
I sliced a new benchy with the new settings, and it worked fine. though its guessing 2h instead of the previous 1:30 it took. so we'll see what settings changed.
I think I posted previously that AS IS with no tweaking those estimators tend to be only accurate between +/- 20-30min for me.. Which on a 20hr print is good enough but ya on shorter ones is a wide margin of error.
Quote from: Lazybones on August 18, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Tom on August 18, 2017, 01:53:21 PM
I sliced a new benchy with the new settings, and it worked fine. though its guessing 2h instead of the previous 1:30 it took. so we'll see what settings changed.
I think I posted previously that AS IS with no tweaking those estimators tend to be only accurate between +/- 20-30min for me.. Which on a 20hr print is good enough but ya on shorter ones is a wide margin of error.
I think in this case, the settings were just that weird. That benchy is just about to finish up, and its been about 2 hours so far.
What I want to do now is get a bunch of different colours and types of filament to make alphabet and number cubes out of...
Took 1:47 in total. Not too bad.
Yeesh, figured out the rattle. The y axis bearings are loooooose af.
Lazy, How have you been finding the generic seacans filament? It's stupid cheap. The AMZ3D stuff I got from amazon may be causing me issues, so I want to try known good/consistent filament.
Quote from: Tom on September 09, 2017, 08:16:57 PM
Lazy, How have you been finding the generic seacans filament? It's stupid cheap. The AMZ3D stuff I got from amazon may be causing me issues, so I want to try known good/consistent filament.
The seacans stuff prints smoothly on my printer.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 09, 2017, 08:55:45 PM
Quote from: Tom on September 09, 2017, 08:16:57 PM
Lazy, How have you been finding the generic seacans filament? It's stupid cheap. The AMZ3D stuff I got from amazon may be causing me issues, so I want to try known good/consistent filament.
The seacans stuff prints smoothly on my printer.
Requires me to buy two things :( feh. If they had more 3d printing parts I may have choked down the shipping cost. Spool3d's filament is $10 more per spool lol. same shipping. but they do have a lot of different 3d printing related stuff.
Ended up just ordering some hatchbox from amazon for now for comparison.
Ok, i finally got around to bothering to calibrate my extruder. It would seem I was under extruding by 7%. Wow.
... Some time later ...
After a few prints, it has helped with certain things, but not the zits and streaks I'm trying to track down and fix. As it would turn out, the Prusa Edition Slic3r gets rid of most/all of the zits, and all/most of the associated streaks.
I'm still seeing some inconsistencies in Z. I will have to check to see how bad the wobble on the Z axis threaded rod (yes, its plain threaded rod, not a proper lead screw) is.
I'm also going to try out Cura 2.7 to see if it improves things.
Ya I have heard that the zits which are typically the layer transitions are an issue in cura or have been. Slic3r by default tries to hide them inside the model.
Each slicer program has some key features / benefits. I have used cura for its layer scripting to make temperature towers and also slice objects that Slic3r was generating horrible supports for.
If it were just the zits, i probably wouldnt be too concerned. But they come with weird long streaks after. Like the entire axis is shifted?? I dunno. So far its been a bit of a headache.
Quote from: Tom on September 10, 2017, 02:44:17 PM
If it were just the zits, i probably wouldnt be too concerned. But they come with weird long streaks after. Like the entire axis is shifted?? I dunno. So far its been a bit of a headache.
Pictures?
Also this might help.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/
I tested out cura 2.7, and perhaps it helped a little. Slic3r (Prusa Edition) helped out more, it seems to be better at hiding the zits, but i think they are still sort of there, as in the streaks are still showing somewhat.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: Tom on September 10, 2017, 02:44:17 PM
If it were just the zits, i probably wouldnt be too concerned. But they come with weird long streaks after. Like the entire axis is shifted?? I dunno. So far its been a bit of a headache.
Pictures?
First image is cura 2.7 after turning off a bunch of fancy "anti-stringing" features and going super slow (30mm/s max).
Second is Slic3r Prusa 1.36.2 with what I'd call normal settings? with some of the "quality" settings enabled.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Also this might help.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/
Great page. I either have it open when troubleshooting, or will open it up shortly after seeing a weird thing in a print. There are other resources as well that I use, but the s3d one is pretty darn good.
I just wish S3D wasn't $180cad. *sigh*
Maybe once I have a printer that is capable of super high detailed and accurate prints I can justify that kind of cost. Right now? NOPE! I'll live with slic3r and cura.
Just a word of warning, WHITE pigment filaments have a reputation of having more printing problems and making problems more visible than any other
Edit: ONe of my first rolls was WHITE and it printed with more problems than any other I had on hand. Which is sad because it is the easiest to paint.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 11:18:28 AM
Just a word of warning, WHITE pigment filaments have a reputation of having more printing problems and making problems more visible than any other
I keep printing these with white because its easier to see the problems. They are still there with black and trans-natural pla.
Pic of the first shippy I printed with my V2 MP Select Mini. (I think, or it was the second after I replaced the bed bearings, but I'm pretty sure it was the first shippy on this printer)
"benchy" never heard it called shippy.
The primary issue I think I am seeing in your prints are the layer changes. It looks like there is some over or under extrusion right at the layer change.
One thing to remember is your printer is a bowden not a direct drive so there are some specifics about retraction etc you need to resolve on your own.
FYI in the Prusa group I am in S3D seems to cause MORE quality issues for first time users than anything else. Its key features are all advanced processing / multi-process (found in cura as well) and custom supports..
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
"benchy" never heard it called shippy.
I'm rather brain tired as of late. My recall just doesn't properly work and I give up trying to recall the word I'm looking for after a moment or two and grab at whatever was closest.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
The primary issue I think I am seeing in your prints are the layer changes. It looks like there is some over or under extrusion right at the layer change.
Yeah, I just calibrated, and it seemed to help. It was under extruding (ala that last image) by about 7% before.
Maybe I'll try hand adjusting the extrusion multiplier to see what happens.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
One thing to remember is your printer is a bowden not a direct drive so there are some specifics about retraction etc you need to resolve on your own.
I've played with retraction a lot, including disabling it entirely. It doesn't seem to help those things at all.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 11, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
FYI in the Prusa group I am in S3D seems to cause MORE quality issues for first time users than anything else. Its key features are all advanced processing / multi-process (found in cura as well) and custom supports..
Yeah, I hear that as well. From the screenshots I've seen its ui is pretty basic. a lot like Slic3r, meaning programmers designed it ;D
I've started to get the hang of the settings and what they do for the most part. Some of the advanced settings don't really explain what they do properly. It's pretty trial and error.
I've played with the flow rate (extrusion multiplier) in cura, and it doesn't change the artifacts at all. I can see it doing things (at 90% things get a little thin, at 110% things get bloated), just doesn't change the zits and lines.
What about temps? Temperature impacts how quickly the material flows.
Also do your sample files included with the printer have this issue?
i was printing things at 195 but increased to 205 recently.
good point with the sample files. ill have to print the cat again.
It happens with the demo cat as well. I'll try hotter I guess.
Quote from: Tom on September 12, 2017, 10:46:02 PM
It happens with the demo cat as well. I'll try hotter I guess.
Well that helps exclude the slicer a little.
Most of my PLA prints best between 210-215. However temp readings between printers can differ. Some PLAs print well over a very large range.
Incidentally this is why making a temp tower is handy for setting up new materials.
I have run into problems with temps and SPEED, so I try to print at the highest temp that the material doesn't have stringing issues.
Printing at too low a temp can cause problems with not being able to extrude fast enough and poor layer bonding.. Printing at temps that are too high can result in poor bridging and dripping.
I've pretty much solved those issues now. It was a combination of crappy belts/pulleys and messed up settings in both the slicer and firmware. yay. Acceleration and jerk were too high, especially for the crappy belts that came with this thing.
I replaced the original MXL belts and pulleys with stock 2GT belts and aluminium pulleys, and turned down the acceleration and jerk and things are much nicer.
My latest print didn't turn out super great, but its a semi stress test, and I had the speed set super low, which in hindsight was not a great thing for the bridging in this model...
I also swapped out the bed bearings again for plastic drylin bushings, mostly just because of noise. they are so much quieter, and don't really have any more slop than the metal linear bearings you can buy.
There's a video on fb of this print in case anyone is interested. It's too big to post here.
If going faster when bridging doesn't help, I may have to look into some more cooling. I replaced the stock 30mm fan that was failing with a 40mm fan, and I'm not sure the ring style blower on the adapter I printed is pumping out enough air on the part. hmmm...
Quote from: Tom on October 03, 2017, 09:42:54 AM
If going faster when bridging doesn't help, I may have to look into some more cooling.
The slicer defaults for my printer always slow down for bridging not speed up.. Cooling it very important for bridging, many printers have alternate fan ducts kicking around on thingiverse to improve cooling.
Hope you are having some fun with the printer and not just frustration.
Quote from: Lazybones on October 03, 2017, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 03, 2017, 09:42:54 AM
If going faster when bridging doesn't help, I may have to look into some more cooling.
The slicer defaults for my printer always slow down for bridging not speed up.. Cooling it very important for bridging, many printers have alternate fan ducts kicking around on thingiverse to improve cooling.
Hope you are having some fun with the printer and not just frustration.
It's actually been a lot of fun, and interesting to tinker with :D
It's like the most fun mechanno set I've ever played with! ;)
I've read that for bridging, if you speed up with good cooling, it'll leave you with straighter lines, less drooping. but you need good cooling for that. If you go slow... I think the lines can droop more? I'll play with it.
Finally got back to finishing some mod's I started on my printer AGES ago. It's been sitting in a box, in many pieces for quite a while..
Now its still in pieces, but some of the mods are actually close to done!
Now I have a beefier 20A meanwell like PSU which will power the pi via a little 12-5v dc-dc board and the 3d printer board will be powered through a relay that's controlled via the raspberry pi :D
So now I can program octoprint to turn the entire printer on and off. Planning some other electronics mods, like monitoring power used by the hotend and/or bed (just for informational purposes..) and led lighting control.
I've also replaced the Y axis rods with hardened steel. should help with noise and may even help a TINY bit with stiffness.
In order to fit all the added bits in I'll have to add an extension to the base, which I was thinking of doing this weekend when I had a few spare moments but nope, too cold. dun wanna be messing with the circular saw and a full sheet of MDF while its cold and windy outside.
The PSU is almost bigger than the printer now.
Hope it prints again.. Although half the fun sometimes is modding the printer it self.
Quote from: Lazybones on April 27, 2019, 06:50:40 PM
The PSU is almost bigger than the printer now.
Hope it prints again.. Although half the fun sometimes is modding the printer it self.
yeah I didn't need a 20A. Perhaps I could have found a smaller 10 or 15A that's made "slim" but I was (and am) on a budget so I went with what I could get and will do what I need to make it work. I could also take the cover off and save a small amount of room that way but I think I prefer it being on even though it'll be entirely enclosed.
Should print pretty soon! I haven't done anything particularly dangerous to it other than remove the power header and solder some beefier wires directly onto the board. My original goal was to switch even this PSU with the oi but that would either mean a second ac/dc converter or a custom PSU with two taps (12v + 5v) and I was having trouble making the former option work well enough given the parts I have.
Been fiun though. I'd just like to have it working again. So many times I wish I could have just printed some random thing off.
I have added a few mods to my printer over time now as well:
- spool holder
- Octopi and a pi connected to the case
- A pi camera attached to the bed for time laps
- A micro switch filament sensor connected to the Pi
- different fan mount for a noctua fan as part of the cooling
- different part cooling shroud
- added a silicon sock to the heat block
etc.
Hm, I've also done some other mods (in the past):
- spool holder
- octoprint + cam
- new bearings
- a new steppers (except I think I'm only using one new stepper, moved back to the stock ones for other axis for one reason or another)
- Z axis lead screw upgrade. stock was a bent threaded rod. now its a hardened steel lead screw
- removed X axis guard/shroud since all it did was make noise, but that required a mod to move a limit switch.
- added a 12v led strip inside the tower.
- replaced hotend (twice), now its a genuine E3D v6 all metal hotend. so nice compared to the stock pos. but be careful with v6 and clones. they have to be GOOD or PLA will stick to the throat and jam. cheap all metal hotends wont be machined smooth enough often times.
- new part cooling fan (twice), first to a noctua but it wasn't cooling well enough so I got a different fan thats significantly louder sadly... might try a laptop style blower fan later cause the part cooling shroud I want to use needs high static pressure.
- tried a few different part/hotend cooling ducts, started designing my own. might have to start from scratch since the software I was using is now paid only i think?!
Fun times.
I will eventually probably build my own printer from scratch. I'm actually tempted to just build a new frame for this printer, but that would most likely require me to print some new brackets and such, which I'd need a printer for! YAY FOR REPRAP?!?!
Woo. It's printing again! and pretty decently. Just need to find something fun to print. :D