Quote from: Melbosa on March 22, 2013, 08:51:17 AM
Just waiting on Tom and Mr. Analog's characters to be uploaded, and for you both to join the Roll20.net game.
Sorry about that. I ended up going to bed at 5pm last night, and woke up at about 5am today (had a 1-2 hour phone call with the mom at about 8ish... so I wasn't asleep the whole time).
Still recovering from not sleeping enough the past several weeks/months. I just can't do regular 8 hour sleeps for long periods. I get completely drained and my mind turns to complete mush. Makes it really hard to work and generally do anything. So I've been letting myself recharge by not forcing a proper sleep schedule.
I'll try and get it done this morning/afternoon when I have some spare time.
It's really tough but getting into a normal pattern of sleep is really important, if you're interested I can give you contact information with the sleep clinic I go to and they can help you get into a regular pattern.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 09:25:15 AM
It's really tough but getting into a normal pattern of sleep is really important, if you're interested I can give you contact information with the sleep clinic I go to and they can help you get into a regular pattern.
That would be cool.
Though getting into a regular pattern is what leaves me completely drained after a few weeks. 8 hours is not enough, 9 isn't but 9-10 is getting on the "too much" side in that I start getting testy and depressed, yet I'm still tired all the time, though not as bad as with 8 or less.
I'm not kidding at all. After a few weeks of a regular 8 hour pattern, I have to fight to stay awake after 6-10 hours of being awake, even with caffeine.
append: foregoing the strict schedule frees up a bit of stress I otherwise would have, and it helps me recharge. After a few days, or a week or two, I get back into a more normal schedule, and I'm not so brain dead.
Again, this could be the sign of a sleep disorder. I didn't know I had sleep apnea until I took the test, and while I used to be able to sleep for 12+ hours on the weekend I was still completely spent, turned out that the quality of sleep I was getting was actually harmful.
This is why I mention it.
Then with other afflictions (like anxiety) you get into really bad patterns where you don't really get any sleep for days and function like a Romero zombie, being able to de-stress in these situations is important but again making sure the quality of sleep you are getting is good is so important because then you really can function on 4 hours for a while day because your body actually got what it needed by sleeping.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 09:40:15 AM
Again, this could be the sign of a sleep disorder. I didn't know I had sleep apnea until I took the test, and while I used to be able to sleep for 12+ hours on the weekend I was still completely spent, turned out that the quality of sleep I was getting was actually harmful.
This is why I mention it.
Then with other afflictions (like anxiety) you get into really bad patterns where you don't really get any sleep for days and function like a Romero zombie, being able to de-stress in these situations is important but again making sure the quality of sleep you are getting is good is so important because then you really can function on 4 hours for a while day because your body actually got what it needed by sleeping.
Yeah, I know. The quality of my sleep seems to be crap. Has been since I was a kid. It's like half the time I'm sleeping is spent not resting at all.
With the job, I have more of a reason to keep a strict schedule most of the time. But that hasn't really helped much. I mean, it does a bit. But not nearly enough.
Holding yourself to a rigid timeline is really important, it's been a challenge to do that since I can work from home, there are a few nights I'm up late now because I know I can sleep in to 7:59 AM haha... or rather there have been some days where I start working at 5 AM for no good reason and then pay the price when I can barely function after work (thereby destroying my free time)
So yeah, let me know, I have their business card right here.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 09:47:15 AM
Holding yourself to a rigid timeline is really important, it's been a challenge to do that since I can work from home, there are a few nights I'm up late now because I know I can sleep in to 7:59 AM haha... or rather there have been some days where I start working at 5 AM for no good reason and then pay the price when I can barely function after work (thereby destroying my free time)
Yeah. I'm saying the schedule does help. But not enough. I still tank after a few weeks of keeping a schedule. To the point I can't keep my self awake in the afternoon.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 09:47:15 AM
So yeah, let me know, I have their business card right here.
Yeah, please. It'd help a lot to fix the sleep issues. The less tired I am, the less stupid I am.
These are the guys I dealt with for my test and my equipment: http://www.rhscanada.com/
Quote from: Tom on March 22, 2013, 09:19:04 AM
Still recovering from not sleeping enough the past several weeks/months. I just can't do regular 8 hour sleeps for long periods.
obligatory College Humor sleep-related videos...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpAKGugtMzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK71B6kr1uk
srsly though, sleep issues = no laughing matter. GL Tom, I am presuming it's more than just the inability to resist mental over-stimulation in this electronic interconnected age.
Getting into a good sleep habit is only half the battle, actually getting benefit from it is another.
You can get insomnia from bad sleep, because there's a point where your body can no longer determine the difference between being awake or not.
For me the largest and still struggle has been making myself accept the mask all night. I've been using mine now for over 6 months and have changed the Mask once already to a different model. But still I haven't done a whole nights sleep with the Mask and Unit on. In my sleep I take it of and shutoff the machine. My wife has watched me do it, and then asked why I was only to wake me up in the middle of the act - scared the piss out of me when she did.
But I am slowly going longer and longer with the machine. One day I should get my minimum 5H with it on. Either way I feel more rested even if I'm under the magic 5H mark.
Once you get past having to wear the mask you'll actually find it less comfortable WITHOUT it (it's bizarre but true). In my last year I only went 3 days without it.
It's so natural now I don't even think about it (but I do miss it if I happen to fall asleep without it, like on the couch or something).
The only real time I don't wear it is when I'm congested due to cold, but then usually not much sleep is happening then anyway ;)
If I end up with the mask... I can't sleep on my back without being so incredibly tired that I just collapse. I have never been able to fall asleep on my back. I don't know why. It took months of training when I was younger to manage to fall asleep on my stomach. Used to be I could only fall asleep on my side.
It'd be mighty tough to actually get to sleep with it on.
Quote from: Melbosa on March 22, 2013, 11:28:21 AM
For me the largest and still struggle has been making myself accept the mask all night. I've been using mine now for over 6 months and have changed the Mask once already to a different model. But still I haven't done a whole nights sleep with the Mask and Unit on. In my sleep I take it of and shutoff the machine.
A suggestion that might help: wear oven mitts when you go to sleep. Not joking; it seemed to help someone suffering a more serious sleep issue where it was critical for him to not have the use of fingers + opposable thumbs during deep sleep: comedian Mike Birbiglia, as he documented in his excellent film, based-on-real-life-struggles, called "Sleepwalk with Me (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2077851/)". (Watched it on Netflix.ca, was even mostly kid-friendly!)
Birbiglia also mentioned (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/361/fear-of-sleep?act=1) that he found some helpful info in the book "The Promise of Sleep: A Pioneer in Sleep Medicine Explores the Vital Connection Between Health, Happiness, and a Good Night's Sleep (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?keywords=The+Promise+of+Sleep%3A+A+Pioneer+in+Sleep+Medicine+Explores+the+Vital+Connection+Between+Health%2C+Happiness%2C+and+a+Good+Night's+Sleep)".
(author info: William Charles Dement (born 1928) is a pioneering US sleep researcher and founder of the Sleep Research Center, the world's first sleep laboratory, at Stanford University. He is a leading authority on sleep, sleep deprivation and the diagnosis and treatment of sleep disorders such as sleep apnea and narcolepsy. For this pioneering work in a previously uncharted field, he is sometimes referred to as the father of sleep medicine.)
Quote from: Tom on March 22, 2013, 11:34:06 AM
If I end up with the mask... I can't sleep on my back without being so incredibly tired that I just collapse. I have never been able to fall asleep on my back. I don't know why. It took months of training when I was younger to manage to fall asleep on my stomach. Used to be I could only fall asleep on my side.
It'd be mighty tough to actually get to sleep with it on.
I sleep on my side usually with the mask on, it's not a problem. And like anything else you can get used to it, at first it's just annoying but after a while you don't even notice it (well, you MISS it if it's not there, but it never gets in the way of sleep)
The fact that you can't sleep on your back could be due to sleep apnea actually, tissue will hang down and block your sinus which may be cutting off your air supply when you sleep. A lot of people with sleep apnea adjust to this by sleeping on their stomach (myself included) just to keep the airway open.
I would not be surprised to find that you have sleep apnea, I was HIGHLY skeptical of the mask when I first heard about it too but it REALLY works actually and not just for me but for over 90% of all sleep apnea sufferers.
Quote from: Tom on March 22, 2013, 11:34:06 AM
If I end up with the mask... I can't sleep on my back without being so incredibly tired that I just collapse. I have never been able to fall asleep on my back. I don't know why. It took months of training when I was younger to manage to fall asleep on my stomach. Used to be I could only fall asleep on my side.
It'd be mighty tough to actually get to sleep with it on.
Wow you are describing a common problem with people whom have a sleep disorder like Mr. Analog and I. You may find sleeping on your back is fine after you have a CPAC machine to help with your breathing.
DAMN I see Mr. Analog already said that... types faster than me and his forum response must be getting better!
It is and yeah, I regularly sleep on my back now, it's actually a lot better for your back too.
I actually feel energized after sleep, I can't even describe it, I mean tomorrow I will be up with the sun and have the whole day to make art and play games.
If this was a few years ago I'd sleep in until noon and then just be in a fuzzy haze all day (without drinking! lol)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 12:02:40 PM
I would not be surprised to find that you have sleep apnea, I was HIGHLY skeptical of the mask when I first heard about it too but it REALLY works actually and not just for me but for over 90% of all sleep apnea sufferers.
I whole heartily agree! The CPAC machine has really helped with my sleep!
I was told almost 70% of adults in Canada have some form of sleep apnea, to varying degrees, and most don't even know they do have it.
I was surprised actually how many people I knew that had it and were on CPAP, my co-worker, my boss, half the guys at fraga... it's crazy!
Tom: CowGirl wears the mask and falls asleep in several different positions. There's no need to be lying on your back with it on.
I'm lucky enough not to have breathing problems while sleeping. I have slowly but surely figured out that I sleep in 90 minute cycles, so I feel rested after 90 minutes, 3 hours, 4.5 hours, 6 hours, and 7.5 hours. If I sleep a full 8, I'm a zombie, moreso than if I sleep 3. I count on about 15 minutes for falling asleep, so set my alarm each night to be about 6 or 7.5 hours + 15 minutes. This seems to work pretty good for me. I've done the odd three-nights-in-a-row-of-3-hours-of-sleep, and was still able to concentrate. I did find I eventually had to have a longer sleep, though.
Getting away from the screens and electronic gadgets at some point certainly is a concern, though. More than once I've gone to bed at 4am because the TV was on and I just couldn't stop clicking.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 12:07:00 PM
I was surprised actually how many people I knew that had it and were on CPAP, my co-worker, my boss, half the guys at fraga... it's crazy!
Yes sorry CPAP... not CPAC
It's not that I can't sleep well on my back, but that I can't even get to sleep. It's like I can't relax. I find it hard to calm my brain down, which is usually what keeps me up (racing thoughts, etc).
But yeah, there is a high chance I need one of those things. One reason is I'm overweight... I wake up a lot.
Its weird though, I used to sleep so deeply almost nothing would wake me up. Now, almost anything will wake me up most days.
Quote from: Thorin on March 22, 2013, 12:08:47 PM
Tom: CowGirl wears the mask and falls asleep in several different positions. There's no need to be lying on your back with it on.
I just figure I'll find it hard to lay on my side or front with it on.
My counselor suggested giving a one hour buffer between anything with a backlit screen and trying to sleep, so that's my book or music time now. HUUUUUUUUUGE difference
BUT if you are like me and you really can't just shut brain off, get out of bed and do something for a while until you are tired.
The worst thing you can do is start associating the place you sleep with not being able to actually sleep (this is why some people will say that they can only get good sleep on the couch or in a guest room). Try re-orienting your bed if you are having trouble sleeping in it, sometimes a little change like that can make a big difference.
Yeah, I was told that if you can't fall asleep withing 15-30 minutes of getting in bed, just get up till you know you can fall asleep. It works for me.
I can fall asleep pretty good these days, even if I haven't been up for /waaaay/ too long. I do sleep better than I used to. Still not great though ;D
She doesn't have a problem at all laying on her side. The mask is small (just covers the nose) and the hose has a freewheeling universal pivot on it so it can go in any direction easily. She won't go anywhere without it now.
Taking an hour away from screens before sleep is a good idea.
I find myself going over the day's events again and again in my mind. I've found that if I get up and write down what I'm thinking about, my subconscious will let go of the desire to remember these events, and then I stop thinking about them.
I do have one small issue with laying on my front. since I gained some weight back, it tends to put my shoulder out. So I try not to do that. so yeah, hopefully it wont get in the way.
Yeah, that's important to mention, DO NOT GO BACK TO THE COMPUTER, grab a book or a crossword puzzle anything.
The other thing that helps is turn the clock around, when you are in bed it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TIME IT IS
We all do this little game where it's like if I fall asleep EXACTLY NOW I'll get X amount of sleep (being well rested doesn't work that way and it never will)
Again, this is why I like reading or listening to music before I go to bed, I start concentrating on just one thing and all the other crap I worry about goes away.
If I'm REALLY having problems because there's a lot of other @%&# going on I'll actually take my anxiety medication, because that's what it's for. However it's rare that I have to do that, though there's a certain amount of stubbornness that stops me from doing this and I suffer for it (was going through some rough stuff around Christmas and decided NOT to use my medication to help me through it and payed the price in weeks of not sleeping/relaxing).
So m'yaa!
Quote from: Tom on March 22, 2013, 12:20:02 PM
I do have one small issue with laying on my front. since I gained some weight back, it tends to put my shoulder out. So I try not to do that. so yeah, hopefully it wont get in the way.
The hose has a steel coil in it, you can roll right over it if you want to, it won't break.
I'm a bit too obsessive. If I'm reading something, its something I'm interested in. Which means I have a hard time putting it down.
these days I tend to put on some animu or youtube if I can't sleep.
As for anxiety, yeah, it sometimes is that, but my medication is a regular 2x dose per day type thing. My dr was very hesitant to prescribe a habit inducing medication for it, and I agree with him.
So I'm a bit more unlucky than most with sleep apnea, as I am a solid mouth breather. So my mask is both Nose and Mouth coverage. My first mask was like an aviators mask, which drove the bridge of my nose nuts. My second mask is more to my liking, but seems to be the most unpopular of the 4 mouth & nose types according to RHS. But it works for me and is as both Mr. Analog and Thorin have said. You can sleep with it in many different positions. Key is not to have leaks from the mask area.
No TV or electronic device screens in the hour before bed
No caffeine in the after noon or after 3pm for sure.
Make sure you are hydrated
Darken your room and also try to cover or remove ANY distracting light sources
- don't have the alarm clock face you
- cover any charging LEDs on devices in the room
- cover your windows
CPAP did not work for me, I am on a waiting list to get at least two surgeries to correct my nasal passage, upper pallet and possibly remove my tonsels.. I may still need a CPAP machine but it may not help till my airway is opened up.
Did two runs of CPAP trials and O2 monitoring, came back boarder line. Went in for a sleep study (they wire you up and record you sleeping) where it was confirmed my breathing stopped several times during the night.
Like I say try to avoid anything with a back light, it basically tells your brain through your eyes that it's actually day and the body should stay awake. If reading will keep you up switch to music, get the ol' earbuds out and put on some music you like (something relaxing obviously) then when you start to feel tired go to bed.
Yeah, the prescription I'm on is a low dosage and on a "as needed" basis, again this is why I suggest talking to your GP about sleep issues, they can point you at the right people.
One of the interesting side effects of getting treatment that I found was my anxiety levels dropped A LOT. Which meant I slept better anyway, which meant I had less stress... it's a nice loop to be caught in :)
Quote from: Lazybones on March 22, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
No TV or electronic device screens in the hour before bed
No caffeine in the after noon or after 3pm for sure.
Make sure you are hydrated
Darken your room and also try to cover or remove ANY distracting light sources
- don't have the alarm clock face you
- cover any charging LEDs on devices in the room
- cover your windows
CPAP did not work for me, I am on a waiting list to get at least two surgeries to correct my nasal passage, upper pallet and possibly remove my tonsels.. I may still need a CPAP machine but it may not help till my airway is opened up.
Did two runs of CPAP trials and O2 monitoring, came back boarder line. Went in for a sleep study (they wire you up and record you sleeping) where it was confirmed my breathing stopped several times during the night.
Yeah, I try to follow most of those rules. But I haven't had a curtian on my bedroom window here... in ever. Oh and the screens thing. That's something I couldn't do any time soon. Especially since I'm likely to read on a screen (my tablet) if I did start reading more again. I'm also rather addicted. Stupid addictive personality.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 12:32:35 PM
Like I say try to avoid anything with a back light, it basically tells your brain through your eyes that it's actually day and the body should stay awake. If reading will keep you up switch to music, get the ol' earbuds out and put on some music you like (something relaxing obviously) then when you start to feel tired go to bed.
Yeah, the prescription I'm on is a low dosage and on a "as needed" basis, again this is why I suggest talking to your GP about sleep issues, they can point you at the right people.
One of the interesting side effects of getting treatment that I found was my anxiety levels dropped A LOT. Which meant I slept better anyway, which meant I had less stress... it's a nice loop to be caught in :)
Yeah, that'd be nice.
Also earlier I meant to say "sleeping on my side" has issues. Whups. The forum's "insert quote" feature seems to be acting up.. been trying to write a reply to several messages and before I can get it to work more people have posted ::)
Hah, yeah, I hear ya, I just spent like 10 minutes trying to upload a 200 k file.
But yes, getting away from screens will do a WORLD of good. Get some good music and just space out for 20 minutes (may I suggest Solar Fields)
yeah I just can't sit around and listen to music.
Funny thing is I can take in sugar and caffeine right before I go to bed and still fall asleep normally. Light doesn't really bother me, either. It's all just my thoughts - I have to stop thinking about the day or I'll be up all night. Focusing on imagining a blank piece of paper has worked for me in the past, although if I've played D&D that day the blank piece of paper starts filling up with character stats :P It's weird laying in bed in 2013 trying to imagine a blank piece of paper and then suddenly having THAC0 and a negative AC appear...
Quote from: Thorin on March 22, 2013, 12:59:49 PM
Funny thing is I can take in sugar and caffeine right before I go to bed and still fall asleep normally. Light doesn't really bother me, either. It's all just my thoughts - I have to stop thinking about the day or I'll be up all night. Focusing on imagining a blank piece of paper has worked for me in the past, although if I've played D&D that day the blank piece of paper starts filling up with character stats :P It's weird laying in bed in 2013 trying to imagine a blank piece of paper and then suddenly having THAC0 and a negative AC appear...
And then all of a sudden... "Diggy a Hole Diggy A Hole....."
Depending on your physiology caffeine sometimes doesn't become apparent until an hour after you've consumed it (again, absorption rates and how the caffeine was ingested == YMMV)
There's a mental aspect to it as well I think, there have been times where I've had a coffee after 9 PM and had no issues, then again, I've had other times where I've had a coffee after 4 PM and been bouncing off the walls all night.
I feel bad that you can't just sit back and enjoy music, there are some nights where that really saves me, I can just put on some tunes and turn my brain off...
Quote from: Lazybones on March 22, 2013, 01:06:17 PMAnd then all of a sudden... "Diggy a Hole Diggy A Hole....."
Oh god, that's me, mentally crafting things. It was really bad when I was trying out Forestry crap for the first time.
That's when I know I need to get up and grab a book or something :)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 01:08:34 PM
I feel bad that you can't just sit back and enjoy music, there are some nights where that really saves me, I can just put on some tunes and turn my brain off...
Sure I can enjoy some music, but just sitting there every night listening to music, would be incredibly boring.
Quote from: Tom on March 22, 2013, 01:15:09 PMSure I can enjoy some music, but just sitting there every night listening to music, would be incredibly boring.
I can't quite get my head around that, sorry :shrug:
I have a tendency to listen to a lot of variety though I guess it might depend on what you are listening to.
When I want to relax I listen to jazz or classical or prog or pretty much anything with an interesting soundscape. Sometimes just sitting back with a glass of scotch and putting on some Frank is enough to get in the relax zone for me... other times it's getting into a goofy 2-disc Martin Denny adventure and just imagining hilarious stuff...
Maybe I'M the weird one here lol
I can listen to just about anything, but get tired of things quickly because I overdo them ;) I often just don't feel like listening to a lot of stuff just because. While I have a rather large collection of stuff, It'd take too long to find something I do want to listen to.
Wow we are all really screwed up ... lol
Sometimes I just hit shuffle and let Eris choose what I listen to (with obvious consequences like going from Tchaikovsky to Trail of Dead in one step)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 01:40:25 PM
Sometimes I just hit shuffle and let Eris choose what I listen to (with obvious consequences like going from Tchaikovsky to Trail of Dead in one step)
I'd end up doing a lot of skipping.
I really have to clear out my collection of stuff I'll never feel like listening to.
*cough*
81G ./Anime
8.2G ./games
18G ./Japanese
64G ./misc
771M ./Soundtrack
1.6G ./podcasts
47G ./Music from James
761M ./Christmas
38M ./random
220G .
220G total
There's a lot in misc and likely "music from james" that I'll never listen to.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 22, 2013, 01:40:25 PM
Sometimes I just hit shuffle and let Eris choose what I listen to (with obvious consequences like going from Tchaikovsky to Trail of Dead in one step)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Aerith_Gainsborough_from_Final_Fantasy.jpg) ???
NEVER DELETE MUSIC ('cause there will be that ONE day where you want to listen to something and it's just GONE lol)
(http://i.imgur.com/r3stfEg.jpg)
eris goddess of chaos
A lot of the stuff in misc is from a couple large "backups" that I grabbed. Many GB each. I have never felt like organizing it yet, and a lot of the time I decide to do a random shuffle, I end up skipping through a lot of it.
I just need to go through it and move/delete the ones I know I'll never like.
I usually pick a specific artist or sound to avoid the jarring, other times I pick up an album with a theme and listen to the whole thing end to end and enjoy the journey, trying to interpret where the artists were trying to take me or just fall into the music.
Only when I'm shuffling do I skip a song, or even then sometimes I listen to the song and try to think about why I skip it in the first place...