Car Shopping

[Cova]

As most of you likely don't yet know - the RSX was involved in an accident last week.  A young couple in an older Honda Accord failed to stop (failed to slow down) for a stop-sign, and hit the front corner of my car as I was going through the intersection (I had a green-light at the time).  And to make things interesting, while I was still stuck in my car (drivers door can't be opened anymore) they got out of the accord, tore off the license plate, and ran on foot.  So anyways - I've been car shopping lately, and have pretty much narrowed it down to the final two, and am looking for more opinions just to make sure I didn't go and forget something or anything like that.

So..., 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX 5-door VS 2008 Audi A4 2.0T Avant Quattro.  Discuss!

Pictures..

Audi: (Mine would likely be red though)
WRX:

[Shayne]

Adam just got a Subaru Impreza and hates it.  I think he put it something like "A $15,000 car with $15,000  worth of engine and AWD".  Fit and finish is lacking for the price of the car.  The Impreza really is just an entry level car with a premium price tag attached.  The Fifth Gear TV show in the Europe disliked it as well.

[Thorin]

Discuss?  Opinion?

Okay, import a fifteen-year-old Skyline GT-R.  You'll have $10k+ left over for modifications.

[Mr. Analog]

That's a pretty cool choice.

What would you say the most important features of a vehicle are?

[Cova]

Or maybe this one...





And Mr. A.  I'm going to not answer your question, as I was kinda hoping to get replies talking about things other than the things I've been focusing on for the last week.  I do already have my mind mostly made up - but its interesting to hear new things and its not too late to change the decision until I've signed a lot of paperwork.

[Thorin]

Is that the new STi 5-door?  I haven't bothered keeping up with how the newest Subarus look, but those look like STi wheels.

Volvo XC70 (or even cooler, a "Volvord"; a Volvo with a Ford 302 in it).  The XC70 has AWD, heated seats, and better ground clearance than the other two you're looking at.  The Volvord is cheaper and has more power, although it would take quite a bit to build.

Hummer H3, Saab 9-7X, or Chevrolet Tahoe.  They all have decent engines, proper 4WD, and lots of room.  None of them will make people call you a riceboy.

Volkswagen Passat Wagon, pretty much a natural match-up against the Audi.

Why are you looking at station wagons?  Why are you looking at AWD?  Why are you looking at turbocharged cars?  The answers to these questions would steer our response.  Otherwise you're just gonna hear, "Audi sucks!  Get the Sube!", "No it doesn't, Sube sucks!  Get the Audi!"

I guess, are you asking us what we would buy, or are you asking us to suggest cars for you to buy, or are you asking us to poke holes in the cars you've already picked?

[Cova]

Yes - thats the new STI.

That Volvo looks kinda interesting - the fact that it comes standard with skid plates would seem to indicate that its at least semi-decent off road.

As to the other questions...  I'm looking at wagon's because I'd prefer a car over a SUV, but still need to be able to carry enough cargo to go mountain-biking, or LAN partying, or whatever else I decide I want to do (so - it should fit an office chair or mountain-bike inside).  While the choices I narrowed it down to happen to all be AWD, my restriction is only that it's not FWD.  Same thing with the turbo's - just happened that the selection of cars that fit my other requirements happened to have turbo's, my power requirements are only that it's more than the RSX / fun to drive.

And the final question (the important one) - I'm more looking for people to poke holes in, or point out things I missed (good or bad things) about the cars I've narrowed it down to.  Volvo is the only brand I hadn't already checked out - I'm fairly familiar with what my options could be, and I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about the few that made my short list.

[Cova]

And here's a pic of the RSX, if anyone's interested.

[CowGirl]

And here's a pic of the RSX, if anyone's interested.

That's a big ouchie.

[Thorin]

Heh, Car and Driver (I think) did an offroad comparison ten or so years ago - the cars ranged from a Volvo XC70 (lowest clearance) to Ford Explorer (highest clearance).  They took all five or six vehicles they were comparing through a proper offroad course, and the Volvo never got stuck.

Cargo capacity?  Trucks win.  Chevy Canyon with 4x4 and a removable box top or lid.  Heated cargo capacity?  SUVs, minivans, or full-length vans.  Fun to drive?  Highly subjective, so impossible to say what wins.  Are you looking for large cargo capacity while maintaining seating, or is it okay for seats to have to be folded?

As for other large-cargo-capacity non-SUV/non-minivan non-FWD vehicles...  Dodge Magnum?  Caliber AWD?  Mercedes wagons?  Volkswagen Passat/Jetta wagons?  Subaru Legacy Wagon?  Subaru Forester?  Lotus Elise with a motorcycle trailer (there's a Smart car that pulls a motorcycle trailer in St. Albert)?

If you were willing to buy and import from the US and you're okay with folding seats down to get your cargo capacity and you want something that's been touted as "fun-to-drive", you could buy and import a Volkswagen R32 from the States?  They're about US$35k...

Holes in the Audi:
- Audi quality was still questionable as late as three years ago
- Audi interiors are known to be somewhat cramped for tall people
- Pretty high price
- Might have high cost of repairs (I don't know, but it's built in Europe as are the parts AFAIK, which means shipping costs get added to parts costs)
- Are you sure you're able to fit a mountain bike inside the back of it?  They're not *that* big

Holes in the WRX:
- The aforementioned revelation that the drivetrain is awesome but that Subaru seems to have skimped on touchy-feely interior bits
- Tiny hatch area (does it even fit an office chair?)
- Bouncy ride
- Still pretty pricey
- High cost of repairs from what I've read

[Thorin]

By the way, did the other person's insurance company officially write of your car?

[Adams]

So what car are you deciding on?

If I were to redo my purchase I would get an Audi A3... or look at getting something with a bit more features and a bit less hype.

Lets put it this way the Subaru is a decent car but for 23K that should be maxed out without turbo, the snow and AWD do not mix unless you have traction control (This is true).
Let me explain how that works, it is usually 60/40 there is either an auto clutch to make it 50/50 or in the STI it is a knob. So if the front tires are spinning and the back ones have grip, for example going around a corner when coming out of my neighborhood... you now have a rear wheel car, which is nice to have in the summer but on hell of a bitch to handle on the road when it is slippery.

Positives for the AWD is on the highway @%&#ing thing sticks like glue, I was doing 120 over a brigde that was icy the only thing that caused the car to slip was the massive wind gusts. Now my rant is from the 07 Impreza not the 08. From what I read the new one is better but still is overpriced for what you get.

I just looked at the Audi A3 it would be probably 5K more then my Subaru, which was 29,500K but it is also a solid car. So I think after the winter is over, I might convince my wife that the A3 is a much better car or just sell the Impreza... anyone want to buy an 07 Impreza Special Edition, slightly used (8 months or so)... only 18,000 km

[Thorin]

the snow and AWD do not mix unless you have traction control (This is true).
Let me explain how that works, it is usually 60/40 there is either an auto clutch to make it 50/50 or in the STI it is a knob. So if the front tires are spinning and the back ones have grip, for example going around a corner when coming out of my neighborhood... you now have a rear wheel car, which is nice to have in the summer but on hell of a bitch to handle on the road when it is slippery.

I'm trying to imagine what you're describing here.  Do you mean that you were traveling in a straight line, then tried to turn but couldn't because your fronts lost traction (aka your car understeered)?  Or do you mean that you were stopped at a corner, then hit the gas and tried to turn but the fronts lost traction and the rear swung out?

For the record, my Suburban works beautifully on the icy roads.  As long as I leave it in "Auto 4WD", it reacts exactly how I want it to.  I can get it to slide sideways or spin out, but only when I'm *really* trying.  If I drive the Suburban the way I would a non-4WD vehicle, I'll probably never slide or spin out.  Of course, it's human nature to drive faster when a vehicle isn't exhibiting traction problems...

[Cova]

the snow and AWD do not mix unless you have traction control (This is true).

Uhh..., regardless of traction control, AWD will be better in snow than FWD or RWD.  In fact, just comparing generic drive systems (not any specific vehicle) and with no fancy electronic anything (so just the drive system, no TCS, etc.) on snow, AWD will be the best, followed by RWD, and FWD is the worst.

Let me explain how that works, it is usually 60/40 there is either an auto clutch to make it 50/50 or in the STI it is a knob. So if the front tires are spinning and the back ones have grip, for example going around a corner when coming out of my neighborhood... you now have a rear wheel car, which is nice to have in the summer but on hell of a bitch to handle on the road when it is slippery.

If considering a standard subaru, you have a limited-slip center diff (front/rear power split) and just regular open diff's at the front and rear.  So - in a situation where you apply too much power for the road condition, power will be split front/rear as evenly as possible (regardless of 40/60 or 50/50 split), and 1 front tire will spin, and 1 rear tire will spin.  In a corner weight would shift to the outside, so the inside tires would be the ones spinning.

In the STI it's limited-slip diffs front, center, and rear.  If you apply too much power, all 4 wheels will spin.

And of course a traction-control-system will totally change what I just said, as it will apply individual brake power to any spinning wheels.  That will cause the diff to send more power to wheels with traction - if they spin too TCS may intervene and reduce your throttle input.

I just looked at the Audi A3 it would be probably 5K more then my Subaru, which was 29,500K but it is also a solid car. So I think after the winter is over, I might convince my wife that the A3 is a much better car or just sell the Impreza... anyone want to buy an 07 Impreza Special Edition, slightly used (8 months or so)... only 18,000 km

Unfortunately the A3 is only available in AWD if you get the 3.2L engine - aka the S3, which is priced in the 55K range.  Also, with the bigger engine and AWD it is only available in automatic transmission..

[Adams]

the snow and AWD do not mix unless you have traction control (This is true).
Let me explain how that works, it is usually 60/40 there is either an auto clutch to make it 50/50 or in the STI it is a knob. So if the front tires are spinning and the back ones have grip, for example going around a corner when coming out of my neighborhood... you now have a rear wheel car, which is nice to have in the summer but on hell of a bitch to handle on the road when it is slippery.

I'm trying to imagine what you're describing here.  Do you mean that you were traveling in a straight line, then tried to turn but couldn't because your fronts lost traction (aka your car understeered)?  Or do you mean that you were stopped at a corner, then hit the gas and tried to turn but the fronts lost traction and the rear swung out?

For the record, my Suburban works beautifully on the icy roads.  As long as I leave it in "Auto 4WD", it reacts exactly how I want it to.  I can get it to slide sideways or spin out, but only when I'm *really* trying.  If I drive the Suburban the way I would a non-4WD vehicle, I'll probably never slide or spin out.  Of course, it's human nature to drive faster when a vehicle isn't exhibiting traction problems...

The second one I stop to turn on to another road and the back-end will swing out from the front tires. The only saving grace is that the front end will pull the back end into place. True, but I normally try not to drive too fast but it seems either the tires or the awd cause the car to act out of character.