So, I installed the latest Ubuntu on my spare HDD yesterday and overall I was impressed at how easy it was to do. I was also very happy to see all the software they bundle with the current release was pretty much everything I download and use on Windows anyway (OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc). It wasn't without it's problems though, and possibly the reason why I nuked the install after only two hours of it running on my machine. When I installed it the desktop did not look right on my monitor (not centered on the monitor, could only go up to a resolution of 1024x768, etc), now of course this was because the default video driver was installed. I went to nVidia's driver download page and was overjoyed to find out that they had a compatible driver for my card on "Linux". So I download the file and begin following nVidia's instructions. Problem 1; how do you get to the command line from the deskop, I couldn't find it, but I did discover that I could execute the run file as an application in a pop-up terminal. Ok, so I was able to do that, then I get an error while it is installing saying that it requires root access to run. Ok, well, I'm no Linux head but I did know that the default account in Ubuntu isn't root but can be granted root access by assigning it to the correct group in the administration console. Ok, so I ran the driver and again I got the error. Curiously enough there was an nVidia driver in my video settings screen. Ok, all I have to do to enable it is to check it. I do so and it tells me I must reboot. Ok, I reboot. Loading... loading... BORK! Uh oh! X failed to load and it gives me the error message saying I have to edit some config file somewhere and dumps me on a command screen.
Now, I could have booted up Ubuntu from the disc and found out what config file needed updating and what commands I would need to use to do this but then again, I have a working OS on the other drive and the Simpsons was coming on so I decided to just nuke the Ubuntu install.
I knew going in that there would be bumps, particularly hardware bumps, but this was a bit hokey. I mean, why can't it just load the previous "default" configuration and let me know what the problem was from within a working desktop without me having to learn Linux commands and edit a file I know nothing about?
Call me nuts, but when any user is installing a driver it would be nice to have a safety net that contains the current working driver / settings backed up just in case the new driver doesn't work. I don't mind fiddling around with config files etc if I know that I can boot into a safe mode and easily revert the previous change. I have had catastrophic driver issues in Windows before and it was a pain to track down the root cause and find a solution but with a repair installation I could at least un-hose myself without farting around in DOS.
Also the Ubuntu Help system needs some work on it's searching algorithm. It couldn't tell me how to grant root OR even SuDo root on my default login, something I found very quickly with Google (which leads me to believe I'm not the first Linux n00b to hit the same problem).
Drivers still remain a PITA in Linux, and probably will for years to come.
End users do not want to deal with the Console (AKA command line)
Yeah, the new display config app isn't quite ready yet. Expect that, and the new versions of X to make the xorg.conf file useless.
An interesting point is made in this article: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Quote
Microsoft's Mission Statement is "A computer on every desktop" - with the unspoken rider that each computer should be running Windows. Microsoft and Apple both sell operating systems, and both do their utmost to make sure their products get used by the largest number of people: They're businesses, out to make money.
And then there is FOSS. Which, even today, is almost entirely non-commercial.
[...]
Increasing the number of end-users of proprietary software leads to a direct financial benefit to the company that makes it. This is simply not the case for FOSS: There is no direct benefit to any FOSS developer in increasing the userbase. Indirect benefits, yes: Personal pride; an increased potential for finding bugs; more likelihood of attracting new developers; possibly a chance of a good job offer; and so on.
But Linus Torvalds doesn't make money from increased Linux usage. Richard Stallman doesn't get money from increased GNU usage. All those servers running OpenBSD and OpenSSH don't put a penny into the OpenBSD project's pockets. And so we come to the biggest problem of all when it comes to new users and Linux:
They find out they're not wanted.
New users come to Linux after spending their lives using an OS where the end-user's needs are paramount, and "user friendly" and "customer focus" are considered veritable Holy Grails. And they suddenly find themselves using an OS that still relies on 'man' files, the command-line, hand-edited configuration files, and Google. And when they complain, they don't get coddled or promised better things: They get bluntly shown the door.
That's an exaggeration, of course. But it is how a lot of potential Linux converts perceived things when they tried and failed to make the switch.
In an odd way, FOSS is actually a very selfish development method: People only work on what they want to work on, when they want to work on it. Most people don't see any need to make Linux more attractive to inexperienced end-users: It already does what they want it to do, why should they care if it doesn't work for other people?
[...]
All the Linux community wants is to create a really good, fully-featured, free operating system. If that results in Linux becoming a hugely popular OS, then that's great. If that results in Linux having the most intuitive, user-friendly interface ever created, then that's great. If that results in Linux becoming the basis of a multi-billion dollar industry, then that's great.
It's great, but it's not the point. The point is to make Linux the best OS that the community is capable of making. Not for other people: For itself. The oh-so-common threats of "Linux will never take over the desktop unless it does such-and-such" are simply irrelevant: The Linux community isn't trying to take over the desktop. They really don't care if it gets good enough to make it onto your desktop, so long as it stays good enough to remain on theirs.
[...]
It's not just about "Why should I want Linux?". It's also about "Why should Linux want me?"
I would have to say that sums it up. Though some of the distros try and be the hand holding codling OS that people expect. Which is great :)
Quote from: Tom on July 23, 2007, 02:51:58 PM
I would have to say that sums it up. Though some of the distros try and be the hand holding codling OS that people expect. Which is great :)
OR, just get a Mac ;D
I've found its virtually always better to install things on linux through the distributions package management system instead of any installer that is provided by a third party. If I remember right, ubuntu uses apt for package-management, which would mean you likely have a GUI package manager called synaptic. And you can probably snag the nvidia binary driver from there - it might be a point-version or so behind the nVidia release, but it'll be bundled specifically for the way your distro is configured.
I prefer gentoo for a desktop linux distro - and changing from the built-in open source nvidia driver (known as nv) to the binary nvidia driver (known as nvidia), consists of running 'emerge nvidia-drivers' to download/install the driver, and changing 1 line in /etc/X11/xorg.conf from "Driver nv" to "Driver nvidia". And gentoo doesn't try and hold users hands at all - its very much a power-user distro.
Actually, changing your X config is a little easier, nvidia-xconfig will help you change your xconfig before nvidia-settings is able to run.
New Failsafe Graphics Mode For Ubuntu (http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/29/ubuntu-xorg-maintainer-demonstrates-bulletproof-x)
Well, that solves that then!
I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/
Quote from: Tom on September 02, 2007, 07:13:57 PM
I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/
I'm not sure if I like the sound of that. It reminds me my progression through all of MS's OS's over the years. Specifically how on older ones you could always go behind the OS, edit its config files, and force it to work if it didn't detect stuff properly (which it never did back then, granted detection is MUCH better now). It worries me not having an xorg.conf file - the settings have to be saved somewhere, and I want to be able to edit it myself (though I also want to be able to run a system without ever opening it).
Ease of use is good and important, but PLEASE don't remove advanced config options just cause 99% of people can't use them - just put them slightly out of sight where regular users don't go.
Quote from: Cova on September 05, 2007, 05:54:08 PM
Quote from: Tom on September 02, 2007, 07:13:57 PM
I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/
I'm not sure if I like the sound of that. It reminds me my progression through all of MS's OS's over the years. Specifically how on older ones you could always go behind the OS, edit its config files, and force it to work if it didn't detect stuff properly (which it never did back then, granted detection is MUCH better now). It worries me not having an xorg.conf file - the settings have to be saved somewhere, and I want to be able to edit it myself (though I also want to be able to run a system without ever opening it).
Ease of use is good and important, but PLEASE don't remove advanced config options just cause 99% of people can't use them - just put them slightly out of sight where regular users don't go.
Agreed 100%
The Config options aren't gone, and the xorg.conf file will be made "redundant". IIRC it will be used if there for default settings before things like kdm, krandrtray and what not set your settings via dbus. Otherwise, it won't be "required".
Also, you'll be able to change any setting at runtime via dbus, so with "bulletproof x" and that, you have no reason to have the config file in 99.999% of the cases.
So..., they aren't getting rid of xorg.conf then - they're just finally putting in good default values / logic to auto-detect good default values. I have no problems with that (in fact I like it) cause I can still override anything I want.
Also - semi-related to this topic, you guys may find it interesting to know that I've switched to Gentoo for my main desktop at work. And NAIT is very much a MS shop - so my issues so far have all been about getting my desktop integrated with the rest of NAIT's network. So far, Evolution is working great as an Exchange client, no issues browsing file shares around the network, and managing our linux-based network devices (eg. the service console for all our VMware ESX hosts) is so much easier from a linux workstation. The hardest thing to make work so far was printing to printers shared out from windows servers - and even that only took me about an hour to get working.
Currently I've also got a second system running Vista that I use for the few things that just can't be done from linux - MS SQL Management Studio, VMware Virtual Infrastructure Client, and MS Visio are the 3 main things I need that don't have linux equivalents. But every time I use it I get a little closer to formatting that box and installing Gentoo on it too, and building a XP VM to run those few tools - Vista really does suck.
I found windows feels much better in a VM on my new machine than it does on bare hardware. I can't explain it. Also, I suggest you try out VirtualBox for desktop VM stuff on linux, its speedier than VMWare Server, provides all the same features (and probably more), and is still free.
For me, VM compatibility to the ESX servers here at work is also important - I'll be sticking with VMware server. BTW, version 2 of it should be out real soon now (I believe next week release during VMWorld)
So after my test Vista machine desided it was not genuine (yes it was), because it could not contact a DNS name (dns was working in limited mode), I figured I would give Ubuntu 7.10 a shot.
The main install was super simple, I had a running graphical desktop in minutes. However I wanted to see these new Compbiz effects in action, so I tried to enable them and got an error. After a little checking I found that I did not have the ATI drivers installed.
Opened the package manager, found the ATI package installed, rebooted.
Still nothing.. Checked... O it hadn't changed the driver. looking at the mess of generic drivers I could not tell which one I needed.
After some hard searching I found directions on how to do it.
After about 3 failed install script attempts that deleted my x11.conf file each time.
Installing an extra x server
editing 3 text files
and several reboots
I got it working..
Conclusion, if it doesn't work on fairly common hardware for me, joe user is going to find it impossible... OR not notice they don't have 3d support..
It is hard to tell.
Weird, many people had it "just work". What radeon do you have again? Ultra new cards aren't always detectable even if they are supported by a driver..
I havent tried a fresh install of Gutsy yet, but I will sometime this week, or next week after my new SATA DVDRW comes in the mail. (for some reason my ide controller doesn't want to allow me to burn disks any more, so I removed the drive and put it in another box, and I really don't feel like moving stuff around again)
This was on a P4 Dell Workstation with an ATI X1650Pro video card... All the Dell hardware, including the sound just worked. Video was a PITA to get the 3D working.. 2D did JUST work but that is not the point. of Gutsy..
Yeah, I'm surprised.
I'll post here later with my experiences with a fresh install once i do it.
4 things killed it for me...
1) Won't "just install" on my nvidia FakeRAID.
2) When I removed a drive from my computer it would fail to boot. Turns out you gotta remove the drive from some obscure file. So it's not really that plug&play.
3) Games still perform poorly under Wine
4) Applications that I need to use for my every day operations can't be used without jumping through hoops (Office 2K7, iTunes, etc)
...a good "virtual buddy" of mine uses Ubuntu and says that the easiest way to migrate to Linux is forget about all the software you used to use as their are better applications on Linux anyways. I fail to see that.
QuoteWhen I removed a drive from my computer it would fail to boot. Turns out you gotta remove the drive from some obscure file. So it's not really that plug&play.
Windows allows you to remove the drive it boots off of and it'll work? :P
Quote...a good "virtual buddy" of mine uses Ubuntu and says that the easiest way to migrate to Linux is forget about all the software you used to use as their are better applications on Linux anyways. I fail to see that.
Depends on what you need, and if you like being locked into things like Itunes.
QuoteWon't "just install" on my nvidia FakeRAID.
That surprises me actually, I'm pretty sure it _should_, but who knows, maybe they didn't include the nvidia driver in the livecd and/or installed kernel, which would need to be in the initramfs file.. Also, booting off a softraid anything but mirroring or linear appending is very unsupported (theres really no way to make it work, the kernel needs to be loaded off a disk that needs a driver to be seen properly? not going to happen)
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 04:53:42 PMWindows allows you to remove the drive it boots off of and it'll work? :P
Wasn't the boot drive, was a media drive (that i was worried ubuntu would kill for some reason)
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 04:53:42 PMDepends on what you need, and if you like being locked into things like Itunes.
I haven't found any sort of media player/organizer that does as fine a job as iTunes (podcasts are important for me as well). Their are options but that elusive compilation flag always has me going back to iTunes.
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 04:53:42 PMThat surprises me actually, I'm pretty sure it _should_, but who knows, maybe they didn't include the nvidia driver in the livecd and/or installed kernel, which would need to be in the initramfs file.. Also, booting off a softraid anything but mirroring or linear appending is very unsupported (theres really no way to make it work, the kernel needs to be loaded off a disk that needs a driver to be seen properly? not going to happen)
I have 2 500GB drives in RAID 1. When I go into the Ubuntu setup area it shows me 2 separate 500GB drives instead of 1. Their are ways you can do it, but its not intuitive at all as you need to do some terminal stuff and package installations all before you can do it properly. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto The biggest deal breaker of them all.
On the flip side Ubuntu Server is incredible.
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 04:53:42 PM
QuoteWhen I removed a drive from my computer it would fail to boot. Turns out you gotta remove the drive from some obscure file. So it's not really that plug&play.
Windows allows you to remove the drive it boots off of and it'll work? :P
Obviously no - I think he meant to remove a disk other than the one the OS is installed to. But guess what - that's just as likely to break windows as linux. All the boot-loaders I know of (the windows one, and both grub and lilo) number all your disks/partitions in the order they find them in. If the number of the OS drive is changed, it won't boot anymore - whether you removed a disk before it causing it's number to decrease, or you added disks before it and its number increases. And the fix is the same for both windows and linux too - you edit some obscure file, in linux likely /boot/grub/grub.conf or in windows likely c:\boot.ini (which is flagged system, readonly, hidden, and you need to manually remove those flags before you can edit it, and put the flags back when yer done).
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 04:53:42 PM
QuoteWon't "just install" on my nvidia FakeRAID.
That surprises me actually, I'm pretty sure it _should_, but who knows, maybe they didn't include the nvidia driver in the livecd and/or installed kernel, which would need to be in the initramfs file.. Also, booting off a softraid anything but mirroring or linear appending is very unsupported (theres really no way to make it work, the kernel needs to be loaded off a disk that needs a driver to be seen properly? not going to happen)
nVidia fake-raid is supported under linux, if you have a recent kernel. But it's probably not enabled by default, as you really shouldn't use fake-raid under linux unless you have to dual-boot - linux software raid is better than fake-raid. On gentoo at least, if you want fake-raid support from the install cd / live cd, boot with the "dodmraid" boot parameter (so on the cd boot prompt, type 'gentoo dodmraid').
Quote from: Cova on November 08, 2007, 05:04:17 PMObviously no - I think he meant to remove a disk other than the one the OS is installed to. But guess what - that's just as likely to break windows as linux. All the boot-loaders I know of (the windows one, and both grub and lilo) number all your disks/partitions in the order they find them in. If the number of the OS drive is changed, it won't boot anymore - whether you removed a disk before it causing it's number to decrease, or you added disks before it and its number increases. And the fix is the same for both windows and linux too - you edit some obscure file, in linux likely /boot/grub/grub.conf or in windows likely c:\boot.ini (which is flagged system, readonly, hidden, and you need to manually remove those flags before you can edit it, and put the flags back when yer done).
I gotta call shenanigans on that one Cova. If I shut down Windows, unplug a drive (not the primary boot drive) and reboot windows will boot just fine. Try it yourself, i do it regularly. Also the file i had to modify was /etc/fstab
Yeah, Actually, you should have been able to boot fine, with just a few warnings in syslog about a disk that failed to mount. What actually happened? I've removed secondary disks all the time without problems. Even the disk with /home on it.
Oh wait, no, I think ubuntu asks to dump you into a "rescue" single user login shell if fsck fails, so you'd have to press something like CTRL+D or something to skip the shell and keep going.
Ya Tom, i think thats what came up. As a windows person having a bunch of warnings and a failed boot to OS it was annoying. I know that I could ctrl+d to skip but it took me a long while to figure out how to fix that issue.
I honestly think ubuntu should either put non os disks on "auto" mounter (so it doesnt fail...) or just ignores fsck failing when the actual device isn't plugged in.
I must say that Virtual Box runs Much better on a UBuntu host than it does on a windows host.
Had to much with more config files today just to get the system to 1280x1024 resolution.. Even with the correct driver running now it could not pickup the cards valid settings.
Compbiz is much more interesting than Vista Aero Glass.. Way more fun options and MUCH better task switchers.
This is why I like VBox. Its faster, and has the same features as VMWare server on linux. And uses Qt for the gui, so its automatically better ;D
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 05:35:28 PM
This is why I like VBox. Its faster, and has the same features as VMWare server on linux. And uses Qt for the gui, so its automatically better ;D
Great if you are sticking with all Linux. Me whom has a mix, and in a pinch needs to move VMs from linux over to windows for hardware/software updates, VMware Server is much better choice, as it gives me the simplicity in changing between systems much easier than VBox (try it if you don't believe me... much easier with VMware!).
Agreed..
However If all you need is a personal Desktop VM System I am impressed with VBox... My test box now has a XP and Vista client running on it...
Quote from: Melbosa on November 08, 2007, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2007, 05:35:28 PM
This is why I like VBox. Its faster, and has the same features as VMWare server on linux. And uses Qt for the gui, so its automatically better ;D
Great if you are sticking with all Linux. Me whom has a mix, and in a pinch needs to move VMs from linux over to windows for hardware/software updates, VMware Server is much better choice, as it gives me the simplicity in changing between systems much easier than VBox (try it if you don't believe me... much easier with VMware!).
Right now I'm in the middle of a network upgrade (got a new GbE switch and a couple pci cards in the mail), and am about to setup xen on my second server so I can migrate the vms on the first server over. :) Runs windows too if you want to, but I don't ;)
Quote from: Lazybones on November 08, 2007, 07:29:08 PM
Agreed..
However If all you need is a personal Desktop VM System I am impressed with VBox... My test box now has a XP and Vista client running on it...
Its a GREAT desktop VM system. Best one I've used.
Quote from: Shayne on November 08, 2007, 05:07:15 PM
Quote from: Cova on November 08, 2007, 05:04:17 PMObviously no - I think he meant to remove a disk other than the one the OS is installed to. But guess what - that's just as likely to break windows as linux. All the boot-loaders I know of (the windows one, and both grub and lilo) number all your disks/partitions in the order they find them in. If the number of the OS drive is changed, it won't boot anymore - whether you removed a disk before it causing it's number to decrease, or you added disks before it and its number increases. And the fix is the same for both windows and linux too - you edit some obscure file, in linux likely /boot/grub/grub.conf or in windows likely c:\boot.ini (which is flagged system, readonly, hidden, and you need to manually remove those flags before you can edit it, and put the flags back when yer done).
I gotta call shenanigans on that one Cova. If I shut down Windows, unplug a drive (not the primary boot drive) and reboot windows will boot just fine. Try it yourself, i do it regularly. Also the file i had to modify was /etc/fstab
On a nice simple desktop system, where you typically boot from the first disk on the onboard disk controller (so on the PCI device list before any expansion slots) - adding and removing disks is likely to not change your boot order. But the moment you start playing with more advanced boot setups, involving booting from PCI cards, etc. it gets fairly easy to break the windows boot loader. BTW - here's the boot.ini from one of my XP Pro SP2 boxes:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
The disk(0)rdisk(0) numbers can change when you add/remove disks, and then windows won't boot anymore.
As for the linux side - if /etc/fstab is the file you had to edit, then its only because that particular system wasn't setup to be able to handle disks moving around. Instead of a line like:
/dev/sda3 / ext3 noatime 0 1which mounts your drives based on where they are on the PCI/IDE/SCSI bus, mount them by their UUID, eg. (or filesystem label's work too)
UUID=d53cd54b-2d63-41f6-a889-9ede6f5d4da0 / ext3 defaults 1 1
Quotemount them by their UUID, eg. (or filesystem label's work too)
Doesn't help if the drive just isn't there.
New problem today.. Can't get PPTP installed and working in Gutsy.. All docs seem to be for older versions that use a different network manager..
Grrr.... Critical fail...
Network Manager is a pain in the ass. so is working with VPNs.
Quote from: Tom on November 09, 2007, 07:33:02 PM
Network Manager is a pain in the ass. so is working with VPNs.
Oddly not so in Windows or MAC OS.. PPTP from a client perspective connecting to a server is also common in, Windows mobile phones, hell even the IPHONE can do it.
Full motion video in wobbly windows is cool though.. The inclusion of the restricted addons package in the package manager is nice.. Flash, Java and even Quicktime all work!
I mean in linux, when ever I tried.. It shouldn't be that hard, but then maybe its because NM is written in python. python attracts all the crappiest programmers. (Its easy, so I'll become a good programmer now!)
So...close but not yet?
If you need VPNs in Network Manager, not yet ;)
It is like asking a kid to clean their room.. When you walk in everything looks greatly improved until you open the closet or look under the bed and realize there is a lot of work left to do.
List of issues so far:
- 3D video drivers and installation (even if you know what you need getting it to work can be hard)
- Software installation in general. Why do some packages install, run a wizard and work while others download something and leave you to figure out what to do next?
- VPN, common and necessary to connect to the office. It seems they have completely altered their network manager in the last 3 releases as each release (accept Gutsy) has a Wiki with different directions for configuring a VPN.
The big thumbs up:
- The installer... presents a full GUI live CD desktop and install wizard that has fewer steps than windows.
- Hardware detection has improved but is not there, 2D video, sound and networking all worked right after boot
- Easy to install the common codecs and non open source stuff people want. Quicktime, Flash, Java, DVD support... And they work!
- deb files and the GUI package manager make most software easy to install
- best 3D desktop, the effects are very customizable.. and the defaults are something you can live with or turn off.
- VirtualBox lets you run windows apps on the same desk top, fairly well.
So my Con list is shorter, but the amount of time I had to sink into solving issues is HUGE. They claim "it just works" but I say not yet.
Quote- 3D video drivers and installation (even if you know what you need getting it to work can be hard)
For MOST people, all it requires is opening up the restricted driver manager, and installing the driver for your card, and restart X.
QuoteSoftware installation in general. Why do some packages install, run a wizard and work while others download something and leave you to figure out what to do next?
Not seen that myself. What software are you talking about?
Quote from: Tom on November 09, 2007, 10:40:10 PM
For MOST people, all it requires is opening up the restricted driver manager, and installing the driver for your card, and restart X.
Search the Ubuntu forms for ATI.. This is probably not Ubuntu but ATIs drivers that are the problem. None the less it is common hardware.
QuoteNot seen that myself. What software are you talking about?
Looking at the standard VPN packages and the ATI package (it didn't set anything when installed). It is a case of OK now what, when you install them. Where things like the Desktop firewall tool have 4 screens of guided wizards.
Most packages don't have any guided wizards. afaik.
But I'll buy that some users are having issues with it not installing the drivers correctly.
Software for the everyman NEEDS to have guided wizards and easy installers. I just cant see my parents opening up the command line and typing in "apt-get install imagemagick" or something. OSX has software installation down to perfection, MS and Linuxes should steal that idea.
um, thats what the GUI INSTALLER program is for. but when you install _some_ programs using any dpkg front end, you may get a little wizzard asking some questions. Course that depends on the user "level" that's selected on install, and I bet *ubuntu selects n00b, which is why I haven't seen many of them (they default to what the packagers deem sane).
But like I said, _some_ might. Even then, its usually just a matter of start gui package manager, select app, press install, wait, exit package manager, start program".
Ya, i forgot about that :P I've only used the server for the last could years and it doesnt have a GUI. Ha Ha. Pardon my ramblings above ;)
Installation of apps wasn't bad but not perfect.
For example Virtual Box is not in the Ubuntu repositories, so I went to its web site where I had the option to download a .deb. Started the download, and much like windows I was given the option to install the program, which then started a wizard...
Very easy.
Or you can add: deb http://www.virtualbox.org/debian gutsy non-free to the apt sources list, either by editing the file, or via the gui package manager, then it'll keep you up to date :)
The ATI driver situation on linux is currently kinda in flux. ATI just recently started releasing drivers with support for the extension needed for Compiz/Beryl (the 3D desktop effects) - you used to need to run all kinds of extra stuff to make 3D desktops work with the ATI binary drivers. The open-source ATI drivers have been quite good, but only do 3D on cards up to around the R300 generation (the 9800's or so). And at the same tme that AMD released the new binary drivers with AIGLX support, they also released around 800 pages of specs on the X2000 series GPU's that don't require NDA, and from that a new open-source driver project has begun, called radeonhd (the binary driver is fglrx, the old open-source is just radeon). Radeonhd isn't ready for use just yet - but when it gets there it'll make all these problems pretty much go away for ATI users, as being open-source it'll just be included with the distro. Until then, for 3D on recent cards we'll have to stick with fglrx - the first AIGLX release had install issues, but brought big new features, hopefully the next couple releases will clean up the install/bugs.
heck, radeonhd isn't even ready for 2D. Least not on the new HD cards. The specs helped the age old xorg driver be better, but it only does 3d up to r2xx~ and 2d to r300. (yup, can't do 3d on radon 9600s, but can on 8xxx and 9200).
The 2D support for the HD cards was supposed to make it out before Christmas, but it seems they are struggling with it a little over at Novell, so they say don't expect a working RadeonHD driver till next year.
Found the cause of my VPN issues.. Turns out they didn't code static IP support in network manager.. Ya, if you use a static IP, NONE of network manager works.
Edit: Apparently this will be fixed in Network Manager 0.7 (http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2007/10/15/networkmanager-07-is-the-new-chuck-norris/) Which might make it into Ubuntu Hardy Heron... Looks like I came back to test a version too soon.
Interesting, I've seen static IP config in the gui, is it just not connected to anything? :o
Quote from: Tom on November 14, 2007, 02:15:27 AM
Interesting, I've seen static IP config in the gui, is it just not connected to anything? :o
GNome's network settings let you make the config via the GUI, however network manager does not work unless you have your Interface set to "Enable roaming mode" which clears your static values.
The system works with a static IP however Network manager will not present you with its VPN GUI while the interface is configured this way.
Tell you the truth, I just disable network manager. I don't have a laptop to need it. Right now its centered around mobile wireless devices, so even the "wired" network settings were an afterthought.
Not to mention it wreaked havoc with my already configured settings (fancy bridge setup with a few pre configured tap devices for VirtualBox), NetworkManager would re init the device, thus taking it out of the bridge. woo.