Righteous Wrath Online Community

General => Game Chat => Consoles => Topic started by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 12:02:09 PM

Title: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 12:02:09 PM
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/microsoft-unveils-its-next-game-console-the-tktk/
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on May 21, 2013, 12:32:32 PM
The box is ugly, I hope they clean that up.

Blu-Ray player, hurray!

Data is stored in the cloud, which just gives EA more ammo for always-on internet requirements.

I wonder what this "switch to TV" thing is, though.  Are we going to be expected to use the Xbox One as a DVR or a cable box or something?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: Thorin on May 21, 2013, 12:32:32 PM
The box is ugly, I hope they clean that up.

Blu-Ray player, hurray!

Data is stored in the cloud, which just gives EA more ammo for always-on internet requirements.

I wonder what this "switch to TV" thing is, though.  Are we going to be expected to use the Xbox One as a DVR or a cable box or something?

There are a pile of related articles on it.

1. The TV feature appears to be some kind of pass through that adds relevant content to a live TV stream... IE you gain program guide and maybe even live show content.
2. It ships with a local 500GB HD, so there is local storage... the Xbox 360 already has cloud saves.. it keeps a copy in both places and works off line like dropbox.. so if they change that, it would be strange.
3. Personally I don't care what it looks like.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 21, 2013, 02:04:45 PM
I've been watching the whole launch throughout the day.  The new TV stuff is pretty much (if Shaw or Telus will carry it) a replacement of your Set Top Box and also your Media Streaming devices.  I will have to see what the product support is, but from what I see right now it will support the Windows 8 App store at launch which means a rich Plex Client.  Add in support for Shaw and I can remove three devices from my living room and replace with XBox One.  Add in Smart Glass and now I have no need to leave a TV show to see a guide... no need to setup my music play list during TV Commercials... no need to download that new content for the video game after the NHL game, while in intermission - I can just use my fav tablet or cell phone without interrupting what the XBox is doing for my entertainment at the time.

Now this is Canada, so all these sweet ass features might be hindered or unavailable here.  I hope to hell that is not the case, but possibility, based on history, is more than likely.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 02:52:55 PM
It is interesting they are going heavy set top box when they are working to get rid of their mediaroom business. FYI mediaroom is what powers optic TV and why the XBox360 can act as an endpoint.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mags on May 21, 2013, 05:14:57 PM
Where does the red light of death go?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 21, 2013, 05:39:01 PM
Its going to be a Cylon or Night Rider style one now....
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 06:08:27 PM
The Xbox one event compressed to 4min

http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4352698/microsoft-xbox-one-highlights
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 21, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Rather amusingly (yet not unsurprisingly) Sony's stock spiked today:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/43565/sony-adr-stock-spike-xbox-one-announcement-sends-rival-stock-soaring

Features I haven't seen discussed here yet:

A Kinect must be attached at all times:
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-without-kinect-attached

Microsoft is strongly urging developers to go with an always on feature:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/xbox-one-wont-require-always-online-connection-itll-be-online-6C10017092

Then there's the whole ambiguous question of used games:
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/21/report-xbox-one-requires-a-fee-to-use-your-discs-under-a-different-account/

To make things easier, the XBox One will run THREE OSs:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-runs-three-operating-systems/

I'm kind of disappointed by all the news I've heard so far, I'm not sure how many people need a set-top box or BluRay replacement at this point I'm actually kind of confused to see a lot of work that went into it (from what I can tell).

As well tying the XBox One with the sinking ship that is the Windows 8 App Store is mind boggling, XBox Live is a pretty good distribution channel, I'm shocked Microsoft would dump it for what is the spiritual successor for Games for Windows Live.

They're also going to use Skype as the main comm client, which if you use Skype at all for gaming sessions you already know that YMMV, but seriously adding a group video call feature is going to be nightmare fuel on a grand scale (gamers may actually pine for the days when they only head to HEAR other people).

At the end of the day the REAL thing we care about is what games are going to be available and whether or not they are good enough to bring gamers in. Microsoft and Sony may end up in the same boat Nintendo is in now if there isn't some killer app headed for launch.

With slow adoption of Windows 8, an XBox One launch failure could be very damaging to Microsoft.

I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 08:35:05 PM
Pro: Skype codec is what powers steams voice chat

Con: does anyone care about blueray? Even without blueray the Xbox360 beat PS3 for the most part.

I mean if you need media for a large game on disk it is the way to go but it really isnt a big deal for media if you ask me.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 21, 2013, 08:42:16 PM
Pretty much, like I say I'm surprised that the focus was to turn the XBox into a media centre PC. Not that that's a bad thing, but not a particularly great thing either.

The whole allure of a console is that it's a fungible appliance dedicated to gaming, like I could pick it up and bring it to your house, or swing by with a game you haven't played yet so we can play it together. Like Fantasy football integration? Wha??

At this point in time I'm a bit confused about the whole thing. A lot of dust will have to settle before it makes any real sense.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 21, 2013, 09:56:18 PM
On the other hand the focus and features do differ from the PS4 so it could be an interesting generation .

The new level of detail in kinect could also have some interesting uses with the hand tracking and higher resolution.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 21, 2013, 10:20:41 PM
It's very true, the strategy we are seeing is Microsoft carving a new nich for all-in-one entertainment which may or may not exist.

I mean most people reading this here likely already have a computer hooked up to the television one way or another to use as a media device, Microsoft is taking that concept, packing it up with ease of use in mind for a wider audience.

My hope is that it isn't so encumbered by, shall we say, "managed" experience and it actually becomes something people would seek out.

Back in the 90s this kind of consolidation happened with stuff like the Philips CDi but the timing was premature to say the least and the implementation was atrocious and expensive (and the games sucked).

Lessons learnt I wonder?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on May 22, 2013, 12:36:23 AM
If it still requires a subscription to access the apps I already pay subscriptions for I will not care about its media features.

I am still stunned that Netflix, Facebook, the Rogers on demand and eve IE are behind the Xbox live gold pay wall.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 22, 2013, 08:32:25 AM
While I am unsure that the Windows 8 App Store will replace the XBox Live system, I know today that both are merging on the Windows 8 OS deployments I use.  By the 3rd quarter this year I should be able to buy indie games through XBox Live Arcade and be able to play them on both my XBox 360 and Windows 8 OSs that use the same Microsoft Account.  The Windows 8 App Store is getting better day by day as well, as I myself have already purchased a few apps there that are fantastic editions to my systems, and install a lot of others that are free.  I am actually excited to see what this brings to the XBox One.

Looking back at my purchases, I think this time I will be going with XBox One (unless some huge roadblock shows up) and waiting a while, if at all, before getting a PS4.  I primarily play on my XBox, and since moving to a WD Live, I only use my PS3 when I want to play PS3 only games, or mostly as a BluRay player.  So now that I think about it, the XBox One, if ships in Canada with all features of media center stuff, I can replace 4 devices in my living room!
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 22, 2013, 09:03:27 AM
imo this is gonna be a DEAL BREAKER:
Quote from: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/21/report-xbox-one-requires-a-fee-to-use-your-discs-under-a-different-account/
...what if you want to bring a game disc to a friend?s house and play there? You?ll have to pay a fee?and not just some sort of activation fee, but the actual price of that game?in order to use a game?s code on a friend?s account. Think of it like a new game...

i.e. an obvious  point made in comment by etrata "Here's a trick question..."
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-without-kinect-attached#comment-904784380


Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 22, 2013, 10:37:48 AM
Since the initial comment about that Microsoft has come back to "clarify" things a few times which has made the whole affair even more confusing.

I think what they mean is some games are to be treated as digital downloads with a backup on disc, but who would ever go for that unless the games were cheap as dirt. As well that model is nonsensical for a console (again, fungible appliance) or at least blurs the line between console and a PC (with all the lockdown of a console).

The only reason Steam works with this model is because you can get a whole lot of quality video games for less than $10, not $60. When and if Steam releases a home console it will be very similar in concept to the XBox One (just without all the other razzle dazzle features).

Strange times for sure.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 22, 2013, 12:08:38 PM
And even with all that under consideration, even more worrying is their clear-as-mud explanations about "always on" not really being "always", but kinda actually always but not really "on"...
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 22, 2013, 05:47:51 PM
Exactly, so far there is a great deal of confusing talk, which does not bode well. Talk about marketing failure
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Tom on May 22, 2013, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 22, 2013, 05:47:51 PM
Exactly, so far there is a great deal of confusing talk, which does not bode well. Talk about marketing failure
It's as if you forget who you're talking about here.

I think that last really successful marketing push they've had was for Windows 95. I think that says a lot.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 22, 2013, 11:14:36 PM
That is a little harsh I think.  Windows 7 was a huge success from a Marketing standpoint and XBox 360 has outsold both PS3 and Wii.  So I think the Marketing at Microsoft is not terrible by any stretch.  While this might not be the best outing for them, I would say there have been much done since the Windows 95 success story.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Tom on May 22, 2013, 11:17:34 PM
I'm talking purely of the marketing, not products. Windows 7 was and is clearly better than its predecessors, and won on merits. I don't think its marketing was anywhere near as impressive as W95's was. The 360 is the better gaming platform, and pretty decent at media consumption, it also won on merits, but it took a long time to get there.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 23, 2013, 12:06:52 AM
I'll say this, both XBoxes were marketed quite well, maybe those guys quit and were replaced by the team behind the Zune LOL

For the record the Wii outsold both the Xbox 360 and the PS3

99 million units vs 77 and 70 million respectively
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 23, 2013, 08:13:46 AM
By golly your right... but since not short after the release of the Kinect, XBox has been out selling all other consoles, including the Wii / Wii U.  Guess that is what I was thinking about.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 23, 2013, 08:37:14 AM
Actually the Wii peaked in 2008 and has been on a gradual decline since, the XBox 360 only saw a marginal increase in 2010-11 (the year the Kinect came out), it peaked in 2011 and has been on the decline.

2012 saw the 3DS outsell everything, a trend that continues for now. So I would say the Wii was already making a slow downward trend before the Kinect came out.

source (http://www.vgchartz.com/tools/hw_date.php?reg=Global&ending=Yearly)

I find it interesting that so far this year the best selling console game has been Luigi's Mansion
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on May 23, 2013, 08:49:10 AM
Nice find.  I was going of news articles from 2012 so no solid charts there.  I personally don't count PSP, or Nintendo DS as a console.  I would compare only Wii/Wii U, PS3 and XBox 360.  But yeah the chart is a nice find.

Man do I have egg on my face now ....
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 23, 2013, 08:56:24 AM
I got curious because I had heard different things, so I looked up the numbers, first on Wikipedia then for trending info on VGCharts.

I don't know why you would consider handhelds in a different category, you put games in them and play them, just like any other console :/
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on May 23, 2013, 09:02:07 AM
Hmm, I forgot about VGChartz.  Interesting to note that Wii U has sold 3mil pieces of hardware.  While terrible compared to other consoles currently on the market, and clearly selling slowly, imagine making a game that half the Wii U owners buy for $60 each - that'd still be $90mil ($60 x 1.5mil).  Now just to figure out what that killer app is.

As for the XO, it'll only get bought and brought into this family if there are games for it that people want to play or if a non-techie salesperson can actually show how all this Smart Glass stuff will work (since the wife and kids have to be able to work it, not just me).  I've been unimpressed with the dashboard update that got foisted on us and the resulting large amount of advertising that is getting pushed at us every time we turn our Xbox360 on.  Plus I'm pissed that they forced a media update that now limits the max bitrate for video and causes previously-playable movies to get choppy and stutter-y.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 23, 2013, 09:16:56 AM
Yep, that will be the measure for success, you could have great hardware and an awesome OS but if there are no gotta-have-it games it's just going to stall.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 23, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
plenty of mockery happening all over the web, KYM already has a place collecting the most recent videos...
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/xbox/videos


but srsly, I'm sure it won't be as terrible as the haters/fearmongers are saying.

The new more precise Kinect will likely be fantastic, but since it's truly "always on", you'll just have to really hope that nobody in the show you're watching says "stop paying you" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5fq8fYVahE) or similar!
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 07:24:36 AM
I saw a funny post last night that was trying to show the Wii-U's shaky launch as prescient in the wake of the XBox and PS4 launches being less than amazing so far.

E3 is so important this year, the titles shown off there will be make or break for everyone.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 08:50:26 AM
Bahaha:
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

The plan is you can sell pre-owned games to retailers but they have to register the transaction with Microsoft for a FEE which goes back to MS and the Publisher.

So the real motivation behind this model isn't to combat piracy it's to demolish second hand game sales through pure greed.

You stay classy Microsoft!
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

It's greed, greed is going to take them down. It did a good job in 1983 and it will do its job again if they aren't careful.

This is a GREAT opportunity for Sony though, they should be tooting their horn on used games, which they DO support.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on May 24, 2013, 09:40:27 AM
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/microsoft-targeting-potentially-upwards-of-a-billion-next-gen-console-unit-sales/0116140 <-- this article quotes a senior VP at Microsoft saying several things:

1. they're expecting to continue to sell the Xbox360 alongside the Xbox One
2. they're expecting another 25mil Xbox360s sold (in other words, another third as much as what VGChartz says they've sold so far)
3. they think there will be 300mil installed current-gen Xboxes (VGChartz says about 77mil)
4. they think there will be 400mil installed next-gen Xboxes
5. they think adding all the non-game-playing extras could boost their sales up to a billion next-gen Xboxes

So...  Is VGChartz really out by a factor of four on their numbers?  Or did the senior VP mean total current-gen consoles, not just Xboxes?  And how delusional is he to predict that every 7th human on Earth will have an Xbox One?  Does he understand there are still large populations of people that don't have basic clean water, leave be electricity?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
Units sold is something that is a little fuzzy at times because the only source of information is coming from sales VPs, the 77 mil number comes from sources like this:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/77-million-xbox-360s-sold-6407243

Since Microsoft didn't refute this information we can only assume it's true.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

A vast majority of the best-known VG titles are published by folks who had nothing to do with producing the content itself.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Tom on May 24, 2013, 10:18:57 AM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

A vast majority of the best-known VG titles are published by folks who had nothing to do with producing the content itself.
The publisher often owns the rights, so legally they are the "creator" ;) and these days a lot of the major games are developed by publisher owned studios. so same diff really.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:24:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 10:18:57 AM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

A vast majority of the best-known VG titles are published by folks who had nothing to do with producing the content itself.
The publisher often owns the rights, so legally they are the "creator" ;) and these days a lot of the major games are developed by publisher owned studios. so same diff really.


I mainly had issue with "Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes." ... the publishers may legally be "owners" of the content, and are certainly stuck up and asinine, greedy bastards, with very short-term thinking and too commonly display blatant apathy towards those who pay the bills (i.e. consumers), I can't argue with that. Just those who actually design/build the code that makes the magical fun boxes so fun = are usually a VERY different group and don't deserve to be grouped together with the money-grubbing moronic a-holes.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

A vast majority of the best-known VG titles are published by folks who had nothing to do with producing the content itself.

Doy, that's how they make da cheddah, but imagine if they could make more cheddah if they didn't even have to waste all that T&M on paying some dev company to make a game.

That said most publishers have in-house development teams, I can't think of any that don't off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Tom on May 24, 2013, 10:57:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 10:15:39 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Publishers have /always/ wanted a cut of used game sales. As if they somehow had a right to it just because they created it.

Sometimes content producers are the most stuck up and asinine group of people. sometimes.

A vast majority of the best-known VG titles are published by folks who had nothing to do with producing the content itself.

Doy, that's how they make da cheddah, but imagine if they could make more cheddah if they didn't even have to waste all that T&M on paying some dev company to make a game.

That said most publishers have in-house development teams, I can't think of any that don't off the top of my head.
Some of the larger studios became their own publisher because existing publishers were so stupid.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on May 24, 2013, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 10:36:56 AM
Doy, that's how they make da cheddah, but imagine if they could make more cheddah if they didn't even have to waste all that T&M on paying some dev company to make a game.

If by "make a game" you meant to say "make a unique game", then EA (and others) already do that via the magic of lazy annual franchise releases, esp. for sports sims. ;)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on May 24, 2013, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
Units sold is something that is a little fuzzy at times because the only source of information is coming from sales VPs, the 77 mil number comes from sources like this:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/77-million-xbox-360s-sold-6407243

Since Microsoft didn't refute this information we can only assume it's true.

Right, so I don't get why Microsoft's senior VP of interactive entertainment business Yusuf Mehdi claimed there were about 300mil current-gen units out there, unless "unit" was meant to include wiis and ps3s and not just meant as xboxes.  It all seemed like a very dubious throw-numbers-in-the-air exercise where they tried to pump up the XO's future success by saying they were going to sell a billion of them (yes, that was the claim in the article I linked).  That would mean 13 times as many XOs sold as X360s.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 24, 2013, 12:44:31 PM
Well I should think that's obvious.

"We expect to ship a BILLION units!" == "My brain has been exposed to the oxygen"
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on May 28, 2013, 08:51:59 AM
Here's an interesting take on how the Xbox One's always-on Kinect might change our lives:

(http://ffn.nodwick.com/ffnstrips/2013-05-28.png)

source: http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=1180
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 09:28:02 AM
Random thought: Kinect is supposed to be able to scan text for product recognition right?

I wonder if it's vulnerable to SQL injection?

Will I be able to wear my ' DROP DATABASE -- t-shirt?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on June 14, 2013, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 09:28:02 AM
Random thought: Kinect is supposed to be able to scan text for product recognition right?

I wonder if it's vulnerable to SQL injection?

Will I be able to wear my ' DROP DATABASE -- t-shirt?
http://xkcd.com/327/

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 10:08:40 AM
LOL exactly
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on June 14, 2013, 10:10:01 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on June 14, 2013, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 09:28:02 AM
Random thought: Kinect is supposed to be able to scan text for product recognition right?

I wonder if it's vulnerable to SQL injection?

Will I be able to wear my ' DROP DATABASE -- t-shirt?
http://xkcd.com/327/

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png)

I've always LOVED that last frame of that comic  ;D
(http://img.pandawhale.com/41764-Oh-snap-gif-jqSH.gif)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on June 14, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
That would only work if they have any products that use SQL in them.

..

Can you imagine being the developer who has to add sql-injection-combatting code to your OCR code for a game console peripheral?  Wouldn't that feel ... weird?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 10:28:04 AM
I can, that's why I mentioned it

It's on one of those OH SNAP moments ;)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on June 14, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
Quote from: Thorin on June 14, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
That would only work if they have any products that use SQL in them.

..

Can you imagine being the developer who has to add sql-injection-combatting code to your OCR code for a game console peripheral?  Wouldn't that feel ... weird?

Add add sql-injection-combatting code? Shouldn't the code that calls the DB directly always ensure the content is escaped. IE never generate the SQL Statement as a string concatenation?
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 10:39:15 AM
You'd think that, but some ORMs do it better (or lock it out better) than others

For example, I've seen code that was changing the grid column sort order, a string containing the column to sort was being passed to a SubSonic query, well it didn't take long for me to exploit it during testing. It's easy to review the code and reflect on how dumb it is to pass a column name as a string parameter in any situation but I can tell you most people don't stop and think when they see a shortcut for an operation like this.

I also discovered that just because something is called a "data reader" doesn't mean it can't execute other statements. :)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on June 14, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
Never ever assume another layer will do the work it's supposed to do, and realize that your layer will always be blamed if something slips through (even when it's not your layer's job).

Hell, I'm willing to bet most OCR code works in a single layer anyway.

There are a lot of hacks out there that don't care about proper code separation, they only care about "does it work for the customer who's screaming today" and "payday's on Friday".
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 14, 2013, 10:41:51 AM
oddly enough... today
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Lazybones on June 14, 2013, 10:46:09 AM
Yes well sadly I admit I have written bad code like that as well and yes layers that all take the issue serious is also a good idea.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
So looks like the Internet Reqs and Used Games stuff is being changed on the XBox One.  I figured M$ would crumble on those issues: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies.  Just waiting on official confirmation from Microsoft rather than rumour.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 02:37:11 PM
And this is interesting as well if a little out of date based on the previous post: http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/06/19/8-xbox-one-myths-debunked
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 19, 2013, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
So looks like the Internet Reqs and Used Games stuff is being changed on the XBox One.  I figured M$ would crumble on those issues: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies.  Just waiting on official confirmation from Microsoft rather than rumour.

I guess we'll see however Microsoft is not known for changing course, no matter how absurd the situation.

Quote from: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 02:37:11 PM
And this is interesting as well if a little out of date based on the previous post: http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/06/19/8-xbox-one-myths-debunked

Transcribing the video because it is grating and stupid:

Myth 1: Will only work in 21 states on launch: FALSE (will only work in 21 countries on launch)

Myth 2: Games at E3 were shown on PC. TRUE (strawman argument was that everyone else does it, second claim that what you see on PC is what you will see on launch is dubious at best)

Myth 3: If you get banned from XBox Live you won't be able to do anything. FALSE you can play single player but you won't be able to play online multiplayer

Myth 4: XBox Live Gold required. FALSE (Microsoft is trying to make it a requirement, 24 hour call home still required)

Myth 5: Kinect will record everything and send it to the NSA. FALSE (however the mic is always recording, though that can be disabled)

Myth 6: If your internet goes out for more than 24 hours you are screwed. FALSE (though the answer to this is to TETHER YOUR PHONE to your XBox so it can call home...)

Myth 7: Since installation to the hard drive is required I will have to wait to play my games. FALSE (installation can happen in the background while you play, the suggested alternative to queue digital download the night before is exceedingly stupid)

Myth 8: You can only share games with 10 family members. FALSE (only 10 PEOPLE, period, they don't have to be related to you but it is limited to 10)

IRONICALLY this raised more issues for me, really the only thing it addressed from this rather clever infographic (below) was the lending policy (up to 10 people can digitally borrow your games)

(http://i.imgur.com/xLfxbo7.png)

The funny thing so far is that Sony and Nintendo have basically done nothing different and are held up as examples of what gamers want, this is HOW BAD the Microsoft PR is.

If you can make Sony look good by comparison YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 19, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Well, it's official:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Kind of an obvious move, the damage has been done, and I'm kind of glad for it because I think average people have started taking a much harder look at what DRM really means not just for XBox but also PS4 and other systems.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on June 19, 2013, 03:44:13 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
So looks like the Internet Reqs and Used Games stuff is being changed on the XBox One.  I figured M$ would crumble on those issues: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies.  Just waiting on official confirmation from Microsoft rather than rumour.

quoting for WOW AWESOME
Quote
Xbox One will no longer require an internet connection or need to check in every 24 hours; instead, internet will only be required when initially setting up the console.

Xbox One will allegedly also no longer restrict used games, and will instead allow discs to be exchanged in the same way they are on Xbox 360 with no additional restrictions for trade-ins or lending games to friends. The system is also said to no longer be region locked and all downloaded games will function the same way whether your console is connected or not.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 19, 2013, 03:51:53 PM
XBox 180 ;)

A lot of damage has been done to MS's reputation and like I said in my previous post has gotten a lot more people thinking about the implications of DRM (which is good)

tumblr and twitter are going to be interesting places the next 24 hours...
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
I'm glad they reacted to the communities wants.  And I'm glad the community let them know!
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Darren Dirt on June 19, 2013, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on June 19, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
I'm glad they reacted to the communities wants.  And I'm glad the community let them know!

This was like the community helping M$ discover it infected itself with a BUSINESSMODEL rootkit, luckily they uninstalled it before booting up.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Mr. Analog on June 19, 2013, 04:26:08 PM
I find it funny that even the US Navy blasted them soundly for their absurd policies, I guess the military likes its XBox precisely because you can unplug it and play games during deployment

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030

Now the lingering question remains will these features creep back in over time (much like the PS3 OtherOS change that happened retroactively)

(http://i.imgur.com/RMckLsq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Thorin on June 19, 2013, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 19, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Well, it's official:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Wow, that's a pretty unequivocal, opposite-to-vague statement.  It's laid out in no uncertain terms.  I love how he thanks the reader for their candid feedback, and how he's heard "loud and clear" what consumers want.  Nice to finally see an outcry that has an effect.
Title: Re: The Xbox One has been announced
Post by: Melbosa on June 20, 2013, 01:52:59 PM
I agree... very rare in our Industry.  Look at EA's recent craziness.