If we eren't a Guild site what would you change?

Melbosa · October 21, 2005, 03:10:35 PM

Seing as though this subject has become a pretty sitely one in another thread, thought I would start up a new one. So a lot of you would like to see this site change from a Guild site to something else... what exactly? What would you change? What is your goal with your thoughts? What benefits would there be? Speak you mind.

Cova · October 21, 2005, 03:17:15 PM

Well there is a semi-hidden Edmonton forum, for the 10 or so of us that all live here (and also coincidentally make up like 90% of all posts on this board). If you really want to look at what it's used for vs what it was designed for, lets be honest about it - it's not a geek culture, or general gaming, or anything else site as it's currently used - it's a place where a bunch of RL friends chat and not much of anyone else visits (yep, I can be blunt at times) vs being an MMO guild site. Has anyone taken into account that ALL of the visitors here besides the 'RL friends' gang are here due to their membership in RW in some MMO? Really - do a bunch of RL friends need their own dedicated internet forum to communicate - I think guild-related is where the site needs to be, and for it to go anywhere, the guild needs to get off it's ass after the whole WoW thing.

Edit: was typing this as Mel posted..., one of the mods can move this if they're less lazy than I am.

Mr. Analog · October 21, 2005, 03:21:28 PM

All I know is this; based on how the forums are used should have at least a small bearing on the site content, otherwise it will languish into obscurity (remember Hytek "There's a site?").

Cova · October 21, 2005, 03:28:18 PM

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"All I know is this; based on how the forums are used should have at least a small bearing on the site content, otherwise it will languish into obscurity (remember Hytek "There's a site?").

Well there's a good design problem for ya... Should a website adjust it's purpose to suit user-content that was posted to it? Or should it be moderated in such a way to encourage the function it was designed for, while still allowing users their personal freedom within the overall topic at hand.

Also, it would be VERY easy to argue that rw.com is already languishing in obscurity :wink:

Mr. Analog · October 21, 2005, 03:49:44 PM

Quote from: "Cova"ALL of the visitors here besides the 'RL friends' gang are here due to their membership in RW in some MMO?

Granted, however there has never really been a lot of communication on the forums related to MMO gaming that has a lot of value either. There are (were?) plenty of Guildies who never even registered on the forums. I remember playing WoW and nearly all the communication about Guild events, teaming up, epic events and event results was almost exclusivly done in-game. In fact as i recall there was a bit of strife created because things would get discussed only in-game and not discussed at all on the site.

There is no reason for a Guildie to come here, there is no useful guild related content to be had.

I guess what I want to know is; what is the true purpose of this site? (Beyond giving us a shared forum). As well, is there a need for us to have a seperate site that caters specifically to us as a group of generic gamers? (Rather than strictly MMO players).

Now, before you answer I just want to say one thing; I always looked at this site as more of a clan of gamers. A place where we could plan for LAN parties, discuss games, tech and other stuff we all like. That's why I don't like the "intended" focus to get too narrowed down.

Melbosa · October 21, 2005, 03:57:22 PM

Guys not so serious... geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeee. Here it is... Righteous Wrath is a Guild site with a primary focus on Online Gaming, mostly MMOs.

We will never censorship discussions, idea sharing, expansions or others even though they may be outside our focus (so long as the forums/website software can accomodate those changes/ideas). Only thing we do censor is recruitment of members to other guilds - again related to our primary focus.

So that's it. I know WoW was heavily used to discuss information and action, Horizons before it. CoH never really got that heavily used for discussions for guild stuff... but then again I was hoping that would change now that CoV is on the horizon.

Mr. Analog · October 21, 2005, 04:05:18 PM

I think I bring up a valid point, why can't we "officially" act as a clan and not an MMO Guild?

Look, all I'm saying is that if there is going to be a lot of work to revamp the main site you might as well direct it as something people will use. What site features did you have in mind for the Guild?

Melbosa · October 21, 2005, 04:08:40 PM

News/Article writing, spotlights of game characters and concepts, all based on content provided in the forums through a moderated section. Still will have the Guild Moto, and elder listing as well as game specific events (we had one setup for WoW - never really were able to get it off the ground, and even ran a Guild related question once).

Might eventually get into User Blogging, althought that may be down the road.

Melbosa · October 21, 2005, 04:16:09 PM

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"I think I bring up a valid point, why can't we "officially" act as a clan and not an MMO Guild?

We are for the most part. Otherwise sections like Archaic Games would exist. But our major presence in the internet world is as an MMO Guild. This doesn't mean that a Righteous Wrath clan cannot be represented in a Counter Strike tournament or Quake match. If that were the case, then a section to represent those members can be added. Sections that are User Group base exist to accomodate that group for a more personal connection to the topics they represent, allowing a freedom to be more personal with those associated with the User Group, without worry of public scrutiny {sp?}.

Shayne · October 21, 2005, 04:50:34 PM

So what Melbosa is basically saying is that, while RW is a guild forum (that mostly plays MMO), it doesnt stop the forums from being full of "whatever".

Really, thats all that I care about.

As long as we can still plan an upcoming heroscape game, the next D&D adventure, disc golf outting, LAN party, chat about politics, religion, technology, games, love, death, sex, violence; then honestly, im not sure i care what RW turns into (no offence to those putting in the hard work).

Im with MrA in that RW means more to me as a forum of people i know discussing "whatever" then a forum for a MMO game.

If you REALLY want RW to be a MMO guild focused website, you're gonna need to seriously narrow the focus of the forums and website like Cova suggested or else this entire thread and all the upcoming hard work and game talk is sorta moot as nothing will change, and in a years time we might still be discussing this same topic, with the same round and round results.

I wouldnt be offended if RW went that direction.

Their truely is nothing stopping us from creating a spin off website with what MrA and I are talking about, it might be better that way in that the restrictions, topics, and a leadership hierarchy wouldnt exist. Members would feel less like "members" and more like people.

Our Heroscape forum is growing rapidly with all sorts of strategy and pictures, yet its hidden from the general google searching because its not RW focus. The D&D forums are the same way. Each of these could potentially drive traffic to the website, maybe some googleads on the side of the forum to generate a little income to cover costs.

Fedora Gal · October 21, 2005, 06:01:32 PM

I had a really long post in regards to this topic but I decided that rather be confrontational I'd just say what I like about this site.

My only comment is that everyone needs to realize that the Website and the Forums are two SEPARATE entities. The website is guild based, there to discuss guild related things, about us, how we started, our members, what games we're playing, maybe even the hottest topics in the forums etc, not to discuss what new toys are on the market or the latest new hardware. Quite frankly to update that would be a lot of extra work for the Dev's who already spend a lot of their free time maintaining this site. The forums is for RW members to yap about whatever they want to their hearts desire, whether it's MMO related or not! Although I would like to see a little more use of the forums for planning in-game events for those of us who may not be in-game every night.

Clan vs Guild. Guess what they are essentially the same thing, it's just a label. Yes we started as an MMO guild and for a large part still are. Every member of the forums does not NEED to be playing the same game in order to be a member. We've all at some point been a part of the RW guild in an MMO that's what qualifies us as members. We have never restricted what topics can be discussed and never will (other than recruiting of other guilds, which I think is fair due to the fact at the time there was an RW guild in that particular game).

Edited: removed personal pet peeve because was confrontational

Mr. Analog · October 21, 2005, 06:36:51 PM

Ok, first of all we're all adults here and you won't hurt my feelings if you say I'm full of ass BUT you better back it up with some reasoning, now onto the friendly neighbourhood rebuttals!

Quote from: "Shaeleam"[This] website is [not for] discuss[ing] what new toys are on the market or the latest new hardware. Quite frankly to update that would be a lot of extra work for the Dev's who already spend a lot of their free time maintaining this site.

Again, if the site was designed to be easily updated through a portal or some custom app that wouldn't be an issue. Additionally, beyond server maintenance and forum work (done by Mel and Lazy) just how intense is the rest of the site maintenance? (I really don't know, you tell me!?). Heck, I think being able to have Heroscape or D&D subsites or articles would be the bees knees and could be updated by the likes of our own vast motley crew. I know from experience site dev can be time consuming (heck, I'm *still* working on images for Lazy!) but therre are ways of mitigating this, particularily because we're mostly all programmers here.

Quote from: "Shaeleam"Clan vs Guild. Guess what they are essentially the same thing, it's just a label.

That's not technically accurate, a Clan is a group of gamers who game together for the fun of it. A Guild works together in a social hierarchy with defined roles to accomplish a task.

I don't want to get all nitpicky here, but I know I lean more towards Clan-style "lets play whatever for a while and kick ass" vs. the Guild-style "I am the desginated [blah] crafter and I have to make X items for the good of the clan". There is a difference and I think we have people from both camps here.

Shayne · October 21, 2005, 07:22:56 PM

I ran a successful online game with over 2,500 members, a database stretching in the GB, and over a million lines of source code. Maintenance involved me making sure the server was on, and the internet was connected. I really dont think website maintenance is all that much work. While, i can admit, their will be times when the server OS needs an update, or the forum software needs an update, but really beyond that, their shouldnt be more, if their is, id look into a different OS and/or Forum.

I think that this converstation is actually rather healthy then derogitory. Its about time the air was cleared as to what exactly RW is, and where its going.

Im really not a fan of the whole "Guild" mentality with "elders" and a "charter". It feels...like...a little immature? While i agree that we need moderators to keep the peace and make sure that this place doesnt turn into a childporn heaven, im just not sure that i need to be directed by somebody. This really came into effect with the whole WoW thing (having to be on a RP server, having to play on a PvE server, or having to not be RW or at least not be apart of the "greater good"). This could be an underlying reason that im not a big fan of MMORPGs, as i really dont think i need to be told what i can and cant do on my free time (i get enough of that at work, and from the woman

).

Anyways, you all make good points. If RW becomes more focused towards being exclusively a guild for MMO games, i have no problem spearheading the development of a RW spinoff community site on my pipe and server. If not, then i will continue to make my presence known here (for better and for worse).

Ive made 2295 posts here, say an average of 30 seconds per post, thats nearly 20 hours of just typing. I cant imagine how many hours ive spent reading, laughing, crying and overall enjoying myself.

Mr. Analog · October 21, 2005, 07:55:42 PM

Best. Post. Ever!

Melbosa · October 21, 2005, 10:28:37 PM

I spent a long hard time thinking and reading your responses. Unfotunately it looks like I'm on my own in this, as Mags - although was on the forums today - ignored or didn't have the time to head my PM to look at this topic and put in his own 2 cents.

You all make valid points and have obviously a lot of talent and ambition. I know all of you posting here personally, and I consider all your talents and traits to be some of the best out there. I think you all are intelligent and resourceful people, each an individual off uniqueness in his/her right.

Over the last 2 years I believe we have grown as a community, as a group, and as a site. We've found things that work, and things that don't. Some people have put in more effort than others, but no contribution is too little. Administration, contributions, development... these are all tasks that have been performed out of each of the contributer's own time, and I thank them for that.

But having said that there are flaws to your responses as well. There have been great suggestions and options put forward, some valid that have even come to full light over these past years. But there have been faults too. It is nice to ask for developed content, dynamic - living data stores and displays, and great functionality. It is even better to suggest that you can contribute to this in your own way. But over these years there have times of promises of content, of development from members, that never came to pass... empty in the end as well intended as they are.

The changes and direction that has been suggested require a community commited to the development and effort to take on such work. Based on history I can't see this being possible. We all live very busy and demanding lives. We have enough with our work, our personal projects, our contracts, our families, and our friends. And an added problem is the more hands in the pot, the bigger chance of problems or conflicts. I wish we had the time to make this site into a full-fledged power house, all encompassing, the sky is the limit, designed for dynamic growth from the ground up site. But lets be realistic... none of us get paid to do this... some of us even take a personal pocket-book hit to keep it as it is today (and not just me)... so the ambition and will is there, but is the commitment and drive when it comes to the hard line? I don't think so.

That being said this site was a personal project of Mags and mine that grew into what it is today - again with a lot of your help. And as it sits now it is hard enough to keep it moving in a forward direction with it's current scope. And don't get me wrong, all the contributions everyone makes to make this site better helps tremendously - very generous of you all. So I don't think expanding its purpose or changing its direction is going to open it up, I think it will cause its slow death - due to it changing from fun and interesting to work and tedious.

I sincerely hope this doesn't cause a mass loss of everyone here that utilizes this site beyond the Guild and Online gaming that is its focus. It is a great community jive we have here, and a lot of great members. I would hate to see that disappear.

So I leave you with this:

If we eren't a Guild site what would you change?

Shayne

Shayne