H1N1 "vaccine" -- pros and cons

[Darren Dirt]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/kids-will-require-two-h1n1-shots/article1296327/#comments

The article is clearly "pro", but ahandful of the comments are articulate and rational.


Example of an interesting quote from a credible expert in the field...

"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventng or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway."

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good."

Both quotes from Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist, U.S. Food and Drug Agency (FDA)

Go to www.whale.to/vaccines.html

I'm being serious when I say I'm not attempting to begin here a discussion or debate on this issue. Just pleasantly surprised the comments for this G&M article has a lot of facts and opinions that are thought-provoking instead of just passionate and emotional. Certainly "food for thought" for anyone who interacts with the public regularly (or has kids).

[Lazybones]

I am not against immunization in general but I have never liked the idea of the flu shot since it is such a short term hit or miss thing..

On the news last night they talked about a study in progress that might show that the seasonal flu shot could actually make you more susceptible to H1H1. 

[Thorin]

ahandful of the comments are articulate and rational.

[..]

the comments for this G&M article has a lot of facts and opinions that are thought-provoking instead of just passionate and emotional

I wouldn't equate "a handful" with "a lot"...  I read all the comments and only found two that were actually thought-provoking.  Here they are:

9/22/2009 7:47:04 PM
No need to jump off the conspiracy cliff as fun as it can be (population control, Zionist conspiracies etc.). It really is this simple:

1 - Vaccines were developed to save lives and have done so. Part of our global population boom can be attributed to vaccines (and cheap oil but that's another story).

2 - Like any and everything, something inherently good can be misused, exploited, and contaminated. Vaccines with mercury. Overuse. Chemicals.

3 - Fear manipulation sells even better than sex. Big pharma and the medical industry knows this. Expect new fear triggers to be created annually; and expect new vaccines for those fear triggers to appear a little later...

4 - Capitalism predicts this sort of thing: pharma companies exist to make profit, fear makes people/govts buy more, therefore more fear = more profits

5 - People die with or without vaccines every second of every day

6 - None of these ugly truths mean vaccines are bad or wrong or to be feared. They are lifesaving technologies that are being turned into consumables. Overuse of vitamins is probably worse, but no one talks about that...

I found this one thought-provoking because it adequately addresses the world-is-gonna-end posts attached to the original article, yet does not say that we MUST or MUST NOT take the vaccine.

9/23/2009 12:55:47 AM
North American children are now the most vaccinated on earth. Since 1980, Canadian vaccine schedules have more than doubled the types of vaccines given: for the first 4-6 yrs of life alone, Public Health now recommends 43 doses of thirteen different vaccines. The first 8 doses are given in four shots at two months.

It?s been declared that today?s children are the first generation whose parents will outlive them.

Today, 10% of Canadian children have life threatening afflictions. In the last 25 years, concurrent with vaccine increase, there?ve been huge declines in children?s health in many categories:

Autism ? increased over 1000 times in less than one generation;

Juvenile Diabetes ? 104% increase since 1980;

Anaphylactic Food Allergies ? doubled in the last decade;

All types of Allergies ? increased nearly six times;

Obesity ? now almost 20%, 3 times the prevalence in 1980;

Attention Deficit Disorder ? now almost 10%.

http://vran.org/home/

Visit this website & get a little better informed before your child is vaccinated!

Vaccinations are NOT mandatory in Canada.

I found this one thought-provoking because I almost fell for the trap - specifically, the idea that vaccination increase causes all these things rather than that vaccination increase correlates with all these things.  Finding that vaccination and obesity both increased in the last 29 years does not mean that vaccination causes obesity (or the even more absurd idea that obesity causes vaccination).

The problem in today's world is that there is so much data, but that most people don't understand the difference between correlation and causation.  It's easy to find data that correlates, but that in no way means it causes.  More info on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation and a blog: http://256.com/gray/thoughts/2004/20040511.html.

Keeping that in mind, then:

Example of an interesting quote from a credible expert in the field...

"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventng or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway."

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good."

Both quotes from Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist, U.S. Food and Drug Agency (FDA)

Go to www.whale.to/vaccines.html

The statements in question are attributed to a seemingly credible expert.  But there is no context given as to when he said these statements, or how expert he was at the time.  What if he said them after retiring from 40 years of vaccine research?  Then his words would have some credence.  What if he said them when he was 20 and still in school, before doing any vaccine research?  Then his words would have no credence.

-----

In the end, what I get from all this is a reminder to question everything and everyone, including those telling you to question everything and everyone.

[Darren Dirt]

It's all caused by the typical deep-fried and high-sugar, high-salt, low-water diet.

That, and Reality TV. That's what's killing our kids.

[Thorin]

Hmm...  You should figure out what Randall Munroe is really getting at with this comic:



source: http://www.xkcd.com/552/

You might have a period in your life where you stop using the word "caused", like I did...

[Darren Dirt]

Your post has caused me to consider doing so.

[Thorin]

Well, maybe.

[Darren Dirt]

"extreme" situation = hundreds dead (of 3million)
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/swineflu/2009/10/29/11562571-sun.html

considering the same article predicts 25%of Albertans will actually get infected by H1N1, hard to not call the media's reaction an over-reaction...

Alberta Health Services' latest pandemic response plan says 25% of Albertans will get swine flu this fall and winter and 130 to 400 people will die.

The report, released earlier this month, said the latest data suggests 875,000 people will become infected during this "second wave" of H1N1 in Alberta.

PS: as by now many of us already know somebody who has been confirmed "positive" for H1N1 (or knows a child of someone we know) here are 2 links that summarize symptoms for initial "self-assessment":
http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/658.asp
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/10/11/11371551-sun.html

[Lazybones]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpaukner/4052849920/

[Darren Dirt]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpaukner/4052849920/sizes/o/

WOW -- looks like if we just focus on PREVENTATIVE steps to keep our heart, lungs, and colon clean and clear, we'd live a long long time!
   ...which maybe is what They don't want, hence all the enticements that get in the way of us taking care of our bodies...

PS: holy crap, Diabetes = 100x Swine Flu. Same with DROWNINGS. O_O


One of the comments @ Flickr said "but it's the only thing that can be PREVENTED by a vaccine" ... ummm, that's less proven than the theory of VitaminD + lotsawater + plentyofsleep + reduction of fats/sugars/stress from your lifestyle. I for one am gonna try eating more fish and eggs over the next few weeks, and less sugary drinks and milky foods (just in case, gotta keep that immune system up and mucus level down!)

[Tonnica]

Well you now have an official guinea pig. I've gotten both the H1N1 vaccination and the seasonal flu shot. If I get the flu or H1N1 that's pretty good proof against the effectiveness of the vaccine. I'm going on a short trip from the 31st to the 10th so I'll be in that most dreaded of virus spreading grounds: an airplane.

While I stay cautiously dubious of the H1N1 scare (because that's what it's being played up to be) I did want the lil' slip of paper that says yes I'm innoculated when I go through US customs. I don't want to be detained after all. One less thing to worry about.

I did get a flu-like reaction from the combined shots. That was pretty sucky. My temperature jumped all the way up to 102.3 at one point along with some severe muscle aches and exaustion. It doesn't happen to everyone but boy howdy did I get it.

I've been rereading World War Z for the irony aspect considering it touches on the subject of just how prepared the world really is. Barrels of laughs (and zombies!).

[Darren Dirt]

Let us know how fun your hallucinations and balance problems are, if you encounter them. Audio recordings of gibberish during your next fever not necessary but appreciated.


On a serious note, thanks for the headsup. Have a fun and safe trip, and hope they don't show the King miniseries "The Stand" on the flight.

[Lazybones]

So this past week the family and I have been home with the flu, or suspected flu.

You WILL not be tested for H1N1, they have stopped testing the public because treatment for H1N1 is exactly the same as regular flu.. In most provinces the only people being tested are those who have been hospitalized with flu like symptoms.

They also don't have enough shots for everyone after fear mongering everyone.

So were does this leave us? I would say right about were we have always been, only that this highlights how poor the response will be if there is ever an outbreak of something more lethal.

[Darren Dirt]

So were does this leave us? I would say right about were we have always been, only that this highlights how poor the response will be if there is ever an outbreak of something more lethal.

So maybe that's what it was... a "test" for something more serious, possibly in the future. Was the test a failure, in other words, a "success"? ...
[/conspiracy guy]

[Darren Dirt]

docs summarizes "high doses of Vitamin D" = "just didn't get sick" (wow?)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/h1n1-swine-flu/flus-clues/article1354921/?cid=art-rail-h1n1swineflu