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General => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Lazybones on May 29, 2022, 05:27:05 PM

Title: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 29, 2022, 05:27:05 PM
I have started looking int refreshing my network and my aging Edgerouter lite is high on the list.. I want to replace it with something that can support 1.5 Mbit Fibre (need SFP+ port), and support local 2.5/5gig network working.

I also do not want to spend over $1000 canadian on this.

From the look of it the top recommendation is an Ebay HP T620 with a network card added to it however not sure if it will have 1Gig+ routing performance.

There are a number of Supermicro boards / setups that will do it but most are well over $1000 CAD.

I would LIKE something smaller than a minitower IE something in the size range of the T620.

Looks like the hp-t740 might be another option but too expensive.

Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on May 30, 2022, 10:26:43 AM
Your speeds are going to push you into corporate network equipment if you are looking for a black box, or some expensive Pfsense hw as you have already found.

You are probably looking at used or using a computer with the right parts.  I am not sure if you can do it for under $1000 without going used.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 30, 2022, 10:36:52 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on May 30, 2022, 10:26:43 AMYour speeds are going to push you into corporate network equipment if you are looking for a black box, or some expensive Pfsense hw as you have already found.

You are probably looking at used or using a computer with the right parts.  I am not sure if you can do it for under $1000 without going used.

Well as per my post I was already looking at used hardware was curious if anyone had some interesting solutions.

The Netgate 6100 appears to be the lowest official appliance that fits the requirements at $1149 CAD.

I figure if I am going to spend that much on hardware it should be more flexible IE the used HP T620 or T740 with a used intel card from Ebay. At least then I could change my distro, or even run it under proxmox / EXi or something for more server services for the cost.

This goes back to Tom's discussion on faster home networking.. I am a bit concerned my ERL might die due its age and Telus / ISPs always just push you up in speed when you try to negotiate discounts. So I am kind of topped out HW wise at the moment.

Unifi has GWs but the functionality is so limited I am not that interested and the Edgerouter line has been slow to get updates in HW or SW lately.. TP-Link Omada is looking interesting but their GW/Firewalls have the same limitations as Unifi and they will not have an SFP+ unit till maybe Q4 this year.

Side note I am considering Omada switches and APs as well when I move to 2.5G+ internally at home, they are cheaper and possibly have less firmware issues than Unifi.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 30, 2022, 02:01:41 PM
IF I was going to spend over $1000 I would probably go with something like the SUPERMIRO super servers.. Physically still small but basically has everything out of the box and is super flexible.

For example SUPERMICRO SYS-E300-9D-4CN8TP (https://www.newegg.ca/supermicro-sys-e300-9d-4cn8tp-intel-xeon-processor-d-2123it-cpu-tdp-support-60w/p/N82E16816139242)


Edit: with part shortages USED / EBAY may be the only option anyway lol.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 30, 2022, 07:32:00 PM
Hmm looks like if I am willing to drop to a small desktop PC with a 6th gen CPU ($200) and I am able to find a cheap card (found one on facebook market place for $40) I can get under the $600 mark but it will be more chunky and power hungry.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Mr. Analog on May 30, 2022, 07:46:03 PM
You can't beat that price though wow

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 30, 2022, 08:16:27 PM
Ok more like $300 for the used desktop but even the used computer shop around the corner has piles of them https://forums.rwoc.ca/index.php?topic=12381.msg104203;topicseen#new

Need a 6th gen Intel CPU or newer to have encryption acceleration on the CPU however.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on May 31, 2022, 10:09:54 AM
I've had issues with the CPU 6th Gens and PFSense under load in my experience. I would recommend 8th or higher (Intel talking here).
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on May 31, 2022, 10:13:02 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on May 31, 2022, 10:09:54 AMI've had issues with the CPU 6th Gens and PFSense under load in my experience. I would recommend 8th or higher (Intel talking here).

Hmm that isn't good.

Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on August 20, 2022, 11:21:12 PM
Still on the hunt but the opensense DEC700s look interesting https://shop.opnsense.com/dec700-series-opnsense-desktop-security-appliance/

Still keeping an eye out.

Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Tom on August 21, 2022, 07:18:58 AM
If you don't mind media adapters I've seen some mini pcs with 2.5Gbit ethernet/RJ45 ports. Small afordable boxes with SFP seem to be few and far between.

eg: https://www.amazon.com/MOGINSOK-Ethernet-Firewall-Appliance-Celeron/dp/B09WYQZMYB

That OpnSense box looks awesome though.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on August 21, 2022, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Tom on August 21, 2022, 07:18:58 AMIf you don't mind media adapters I've seen some mini pcs with 2.5Gbit ethernet/RJ45 ports. Small afordable boxes with SFP seem to be few and far between.

eg: https://www.amazon.com/MOGINSOK-Ethernet-Firewall-Appliance-Celeron/dp/B09WYQZMYB

That OpnSense box looks awesome though.
I specifically want something with SFP+ so I can plug a Telus SFP+ media converter directly into the unit and then do a 10GB trunk into a switch.

I want to reduce the number of devices that make my connection work.

Those 2.5Gig boxes look good and are priced better however.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Tom on August 24, 2022, 06:29:13 AM
The only regret I have with my "new" firewall box is that it is limited to 1Gb. wish I found something with 2.5G. :( ah well.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on August 24, 2022, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Tom on August 24, 2022, 06:29:13 AMThe only regret I have with my "new" firewall box is that it is limited to 1Gb. wish I found something with 2.5G. :( ah well.

1Gbit is super fast.. I am only looking at 2.5Gbit since OTHER gear has shown up (Switches and WiFi 6E) and Telus offers speeds greater than 1Gbit now (probably will only be offered faster speed at the same price next negotiation)

I am in no hurry to upgrade.. I barely use 1Gibt now. I just want to build my setup out part by part with a long future.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on August 24, 2022, 03:20:18 PM
Telus is finally putting in Fiber in my area, probably into my house in the next month. My current NetGate PFSense is GB capable, so hoping that I can get the bi-directional 1g/1g. That should be more than enough for now if it works out.

I may be in your boat in the future though if the NetGate fails or if I wish to expand beyond a 1g plan.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on August 24, 2022, 03:38:08 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on August 24, 2022, 03:20:18 PMTelus is finally putting in Fiber in my area, probably into my house in the next month. My current NetGate PFSense is GB capable, so hoping that I can get the bi-directional 1g/1g. That should be more than enough for now if it works out.

I may be in your boat in the future though if the NetGate fails or if I wish to expand beyond a 1g plan.

Ya anything over 300mbit is really overkill for home, the lowest / cheapest PureFibre option (in my area) is 75/75, makes no sense to go down when they will promo the faster speeds. I probably won't even upgrade past my current 1G plan unless they force it via promo. My Edgerouter however is getting quite old so if I MUST replace it I might as well future proof it.

$75 75/75
$85 300/300
$89 1G/1G
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Thorin on August 24, 2022, 04:21:01 PM
Well, it's priced that way because they assume you won't be keeping sustained 1Gbps speeds on it all month.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on August 25, 2022, 02:24:07 AM
Quote from: Thorin on August 24, 2022, 04:21:01 PMWell, it's priced that way because they assume you won't be keeping sustained 1Gbps speeds on it all month.
Hold my beer? :P
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on August 25, 2022, 09:21:23 AM
Quote from: Thorin on August 24, 2022, 04:21:01 PMWell, it's priced that way because they assume you won't be keeping sustained 1Gbps speeds on it all month.

The bandwidth cap normally takes care of that, that is an extra $5/mo to get unlimited most of the time.

Quote from: Melbosa on August 25, 2022, 02:24:07 AMHold my beer? :P

At those speeds it is easy to run out of storage in a few days LOL..
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Tom on September 22, 2022, 05:56:22 AM
People keep saying X speed is overkill! I disagree! I have little patience and often have large downloads and/or uploads I need to get done asap. Even if it wasn't for work, I'd still want whatever I'm doing to not take an age.

Telus came by a while back trying to get me to switch, but I'm on a 2yr plan (1G/100M for $99.75) with shaw and the rep wouldn't cover the entire cancellation fee, so I was like "meh", my 1GB/100MiB is "good enough" for now. But if I start /needing/ to upload large files more often I'll have to look into something different. Even Shaw's business plans stop at "up to" 200MB upload for $200/mo. whuf.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Thorin on September 22, 2022, 04:12:24 PM
Yeah, I like to have the best speeds available at the time whenever I sign up, but I know that trying to keep up with the bleeding edge will cost me money I can't really spare.  So, I try to just be happy with what I have.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 04, 2022, 11:15:56 PM
Quick update on my short list of ideas:


Used HP t740 Thin Client + a low profile PCI card (Starting at about $400 CAD on ebay but coming down again)

R86S (search aliexpress) with 3 2.5gig and 2 10gig SPF+ ports waiting on reviews ($515.38 to $636.96 CAD depending on CPU)

OpenSense DEC740 (about $992.58 CAD too expensive but new and not janky)

Incidentally my 2 year contract offers expired with Telus and I ended up renewing with unlimited 1Gig $80/mo before taxes (no big promos on super fast plans this year)

Still looking at replacing my WiFi later this year so might still update to 2.5G switching in my home and WiFi 6E
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 05, 2022, 08:52:11 AM
I mean I'd pay the extra bux instead of having headaches to me that's sooooo worth it
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Thorin on December 05, 2022, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 05, 2022, 08:52:11 AMI mean I'd pay the extra bux instead of having headaches to me that's sooooo worth it

Must be nice not having to pay $400+ a week for groceries :P  But seriously, if I were doing this kind of upgrade, I'd end up going with the more expensive / less headachy solution as well.
Title: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 05, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
I am taking my time, I tend to keep my network gear till it fails or becomes very obsolete.

If I just target 2.5G Ethernet the firewall/router drops below $400 but I think the SFP+ is going to be way more flexible.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 05, 2022, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 05, 2022, 01:06:05 PMMust be nice not having to pay $400+ a week for groceries :P

That's for sure!  I don't know how you guys do it
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on December 06, 2022, 11:25:42 AM
For me, I've moved to Windows 2022, Windows 11, and using SMB Compression, so I think I am way off from needing anything more than 1G internally for a while.

I can't comment on why you are looking at it for higher than 1 GB Network, but for me won't need it for a while.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 06, 2022, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 06, 2022, 11:25:42 AMFor me, I've moved to Windows 2022, Windows 11, and using SMB Compression, so I think I am way off from needing anything more than 1G internally for a while.

I can't comment on why you are looking at it for higher than 1 GB Network, but for me won't need it for a while.

My current gear was over spec for when I purchased it as well:

Router/Firewall: 2016 EdgeRouter lite 1Gib throughput (6 years old and technically still fine for my connection for most things but VPN due to slow CPU)

WiFi 2016: 3 x UAP AC Pro Wifi Units.. Get about 300Mbits through them, technically slower than my 1Gibt internet, nearly all client devices in my house are WiFi connected other than my servers and gaming PC.

So my WiFi is getting close to EOL and my router is VERY old may fail just due to age.

Simply looking to have HW to last another 6 years or so, and to replace it before the current gear fails..

I also don't want to buy NEW gear that only goes as FAST as I can currently use, I want some future head room. Never know if in 6 years we will have VR over fibre or something, or 8k youtube being common.

Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 07, 2022, 09:36:13 AM

R86S review Ultimate Homelab Revolution Unreal 2.5-10GbE Mini PC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-YLy-RRZnM)
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Melbosa on December 07, 2022, 11:39:44 AM
What about a Netgate 4100 or 6100? More expensive though, but I've owned one for years and solid units.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 07, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 07, 2022, 11:39:44 AMWhat about a Netgate 4100 or 6100? More expensive though, but I've owned one for years and solid units.

I mentioned them earlier in the thread the 4100 is an option but function to price it is fairly low.. the 6100 is over $1000 CAD and way out of budget.

The Netgate 4100 is about $816.92 CAD putting it fairly close to the OpnSense DEC700s before taxes and shipping. In that regard it is unclear to me if the Netgate is locked to PFSense.. I know the  DEC700s can run OpnSense, OpenWRT and a few other platforms..

I am leaning towards OpnSense for my home setup vs Pfsense.

The R86s tops out at about $647.31 CAD making it a fair bit more affordable and it runs essentially what ever you want on it, no odd chipsets to deal with.

As far as function goes I am also considering that on the R86s or similar I could run Proxmox as the base and maybe run some lite VMs / dockers.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Tom on December 14, 2022, 08:27:44 AM
Hahaha. I was going to post the R86S video. Might upgrade to one in the new year sometime if I can get rid of the trailer.

My current box is good enough for now, but I really want to play with 2.5/5g and 10g in the future. Switches and nics have dropped in price pretty dramatically.

Also my current firewall box has a weird glitch where it doesn't always boot if it's rebooted/powered up. I haven't had the time/desire to figure it out. Not sure if maybe because it has a display out it really wants a monitor connected or if it's opnsense being funky or if it's a bios/hw problem.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 14, 2022, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: Tom on December 14, 2022, 08:27:44 AMHahaha. I was going to post the R86S video. Might upgrade to one in the new year sometime if I can get rid of the trailer.

If you have been following the STH reviews of those cheap aliexpress boxes and also check the comments apparently directly from the R86S manufacture we might see more variants of it fairly quickly as they tend to iterate on these things based on available parts / cost cutting very fast with model names / product names being very lose lol.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on December 27, 2022, 03:17:01 PM
Came across this recently ASRock NUC BOX-1260P STH Review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdnUzEV4PLQ) has dual intel 2.5 Ethernet NICs and a very powerful current CPU. Would make a great virtualized option.

Due to budget stretch and lack of a clear "win" I have started converting my home EdgeRouter Config to OPNSense on old hardware to give it a go till I find my final hardware. Which has been annoying and interesting at the same time. OPNSense feels like an old school ASA firewall (Interface based rules) but with a bunch of very current packaged strapped on top.
Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Lazybones on January 27, 2024, 12:28:06 PM
Resurrecting this thread as I actually purchased something after a lot of research, price watching and budget waiting.

Managed to score an R86S-U2 for $359.86 CAD

- 3x 2.5Gbit rj45 ports
- 2x 10Gbit SFP+ ports
- Ultra small form factor
- N5105 CPU
- 16 GB on board RAM (non upgradable)
- 128 GB on board eMMC embedded storage.

Running OPNSense.

Step 1, in my 3 part network upgrade plan of getting my home network up to 2.5Gbit.

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Title: Re: Small form factor PFSENSE HW that can do greater than 1Gig / SFP+ ?
Post by: Mr. Analog on January 27, 2024, 04:25:20 PM
That is so cool!