Linux in VirtualBox without admin rights (on a Windows 7 host) -- is it possible?
I want to play around with Linux during lunchtime @ work (Odin Project, ldo) and I don't want to use my 2nd machine (a "lab machine" which means it's less restricted but not on the main network).
So I did some Googling, looks like it's pretty much impossible due to how [hardware] virtualization actually works. But maybe I am missing something. Help?
But if not, if it is impossible, then seems the next best thing for me to try is to just have a bootable USB with my Linux distro (perhaps initially will have to just use a clean .ISO and then after installing/configuring just somehow make a "snapshot" of the USB so I don't have to redo all that work if I end up "breaking" it etc.)
So I found this -- Tom etc. might know whether this would do the trick (or if there is a better option)
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/#faq
I'm hoping to be able to have a USB that lets me run a VDI (or whatever the common format is for virtual disk images etc.) so that I don't have to reboot to do my stuff... but would love if that USB could have both Linux data (the machine I'm playing around with) but ALSO have Windows data (a bunch of text files logging what I'm doing, notes to my self, some Windows apps or whatnot etc.)
I'm probably insane to expect this to be possible, let alone relatively simple.
IDEAL is that I would never have to reboot, could just run the VM right off the USB drive while still logged into my Windows 7 machine (so at 1pm I don't have to reboot to get back into "work mode").
Ideas?
I used to have 3 Ubuntu based virtual box environments set up, that was ages ago though. Maybe I don't understand your problem?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 26, 2014, 11:23:21 AM
I used to have 3 Ubuntu based virtual box environments set up, that was ages ago though. Maybe I don't understand your problem?
Main thing is that I can not install anything on my work machine, so can't even run VirtualBox (since there's no "portable" version of it , due to how hardware virtualization works apparently) so even if I do all the initial work @ home and build a nice VDI there's no way of me doing anything with it @ work ... which is why I suspect Linux on USB is the way I'll end up having to go.
Setting up the virtualbox environment ain't the challenge for me, it's actually accessing it @ work.
As a reminder, I would likely be doing the initial setup (and most of the coursework) at home where obv. no permissions restrictions -- but would like to move back and forth home<-->work; once it's plugged in @ work it's on a locked down machine so can't install anything or change registry settings or configurations etc -- heck at work I can't even
launch "diskpart (https://answers.launchpad.net/unetbootin/+question/219012)"!
Also just found this...
"Persistence" caught my attention -- http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/help/faq/persistence
but also the "don't have to reboot to get into Linux" made go "RLY?" http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/features
...will maybe try that @ lunch.
-
or NOT: "In order to run LinuxLive USB Creator you must have local administrator privileges on your computer." ( http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/download )
Maybe I can "build it" @ home and then access it @ work [/optimism]
Also found this...
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/portable-virtualbox.html
"Being able to run a virtualization product from a USB key sounds like an interesting idea. In general, virtualization products are heavy creatures, which require a solid foothold in the system innards to work well. VirtualBox breaks these rules.
VirtualBox is an exception in being able to run from a USB drive, without being installed on the machine. This offers you incredible flexibility, as well as allows you to avoid cluttering the hard disk - especially if it's not yours."
but...
http://www.vbox.me/
"Note: VirtualBox needs several kernel drivers installed and needs to start several services: if the drivers and services are not already installed you?ll need administrator rights to run Portable-VirtualBox."
...option #2:
Alternative: MojoPac
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mojopac.html
hmmm...
What about cloud virtualization? Then you could play with it anywhere
There is a project called UML or User Mode Linux. I remember running a program that essentially just ran the kernel, which then provided its own user space inside. I'm not sure how graphics work, but I know ssh worked fine.
Likely your path of least resistance is to bring in a LiveCD, pop it in the drive, reboot your machine from CD, play with Linux for an hour, then reboot to Windows when lunchtime is done. I think the path of second-least resistance would be renting a server that you can remotely connect to, like Mr. A says.
Or if you have some money, buy a cheap laptop and get a mobile internet stick, then you don't have to follow any of your employer's network rules (as long as you're only on it during the lunch hour, I guess). Tom, you think he'd be able to to get a cheap laptop that's good enough to run Linux for under $500? I've heard that Linux doesn't need nearly as much hardware power as Windows...
Quote from: Thorin on June 26, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
Likely your path of least resistance is to bring in a LiveCD, pop it in the drive, reboot your machine from CD, play with Linux for an hour, then reboot to Windows when lunchtime is done. I think the path of second-least resistance would be renting a server that you can remotely connect to, like Mr. A says.
Or if you have some money, buy a cheap laptop and get a mobile internet stick, then you don't have to follow any of your employer's network rules (as long as you're only on it during the lunch hour, I guess). Tom, you think he'd be able to to get a cheap laptop that's good enough to run Linux for under $500? I've heard that Linux doesn't need nearly as much hardware power as Windows...
Yeah, I got a refurb lenovo x220 on ebay for $400 or so. You can get cheaper if you don't really care about the hardware all that much.
Just avoid newer ubuntu's, gnome 3, and kde4 with compositing enabled if you end up getting an older laptop with an old intel gpu. like pre-pre sandybridge stuff.
Otherwise, look for a decently modern core i based system with at least 2GB ram, if not 4+. personally 4 is the min for me, and I got my x220 with 8GB. One thing that'll help performance a lot is just swap in an ssd right away. even a cheap 120 or 240gb one. they are getting stupid cheap these days. 60-160$ depending on size/mfgr.
Oh yeah. I have an old dell laptop you can have. It'll run Linux just fine. The battery won't hold a charge but it's yours if you want it
Quote from: Thorin on June 26, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
Likely your path of least resistance is to bring in a LiveCD, pop it in the drive, reboot your machine from CD, play with Linux for an hour, then reboot to Windows when lunchtime is done. I think the path of second-least resistance would be renting a server that you can remotely connect to, like Mr. A says.
That's the boat I'm likely going to be in -- either that or lug around a basic laptop on days where I feel like I'll be able to take a full lunch HOUR and do some non-work work...
Quote from: Tom on June 26, 2014, 01:07:02 PM
Just avoid newer ubuntu's, gnome 3, and kde4 with compositing enabled if you end up getting an older laptop with an old intel gpu. like pre-pre sandybridge stuff.
Why?
With my initial playing around @ home I had given the latest Gnewsense a try; it's "truly" free -- http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html -- and it has Gnome 3 which is the basic GUI which I am quite familiar with now (due to Oracle Linux 5/6 being what I splashed around in during all of June). Seems like it's not too processor-heavy, no need for me to have fancyschmancy GUI I just want to be able to install basic web server and Ruby and whatever other supporting pieces for the Odin Project stuff...
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 26, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
Oh yeah. I have an old dell laptop you can have. It'll run Linux just fine. The battery won't hold a charge but it's yours if you want it
Thanks dude! Def no harm in trying it out (leaving it plugged in when I need it if the battery is that bad) and as a bonus nobody @ home will be tempted to borrow it ;)
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/10/10a91f390c848040a71f4a9b14eba0167857c4c8a32bdfb2d23da78929cc6487.jpg)
Ok, I'll reformat it here in a couple days and it'll be yours
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 26, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Ok, I'll reformat it here in a couple days and it'll be yours
No rush bro! I have a few days off between Friday and next holiday Tuesday but if not there's other stuff I can (and should) be doing to fill in the time too. Currently have the family laptop @ home and the kids are done school so I can just hop on that for a while anyway.
But momentum is building; been months coming but can't deny I am definitely feeling ... shall we say, MOTIVATED -- spent a bit of time this week on and off reading the transcripts from the Standing Committee on Alberta?s Economic Future (http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=ef§ion=doc&fid=111) public input meetings all around Alberta. Time to be proactive re. my personal future...
If I don't prioritize it it won't get done.
I'll try to boot it up tonight and see what's what
Quote from: Darren Dirt on June 26, 2014, 03:22:32 PM
But momentum is building; been months coming but can't deny I am definitely feeling ... shall we say, MOTIVATED -- spent a bit of time this week on and off reading the transcripts from the Standing Committee on Alberta?s Economic Future (http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=ef§ion=doc&fid=111) public input meetings all around Alberta. Time to be proactive re. my personal future...
Okay, that link leads to
a lot of text. Are you trying to imply something with it? Also, did you read everything everyone said, or just skimmed the transcripts?
That page has a link (PDF, HTML) to the transcript for EACH of the many in-person townhall meeting type of things that have been happening over the last few weeks all around Alberta.
I picked 3 of them* and read almost every individual's personal story. Was moving, sad, and motivating.
Bill 9 is gonna die, no doubt. But in 2-10 years who knows what else is coming that might be less offensive or less visible... Hence, one selling point for people chooinsg public sector over private = going going soon to be virtually gone. Gets me thinking I have plenty of time to change career path.
*(Wednesday, June 18, 2014 Public Input Meeting in Grande Prairie) , (Tuesday, June 17, 2014 Public Input Meeting in Fort McMurray) , (Monday, June 16, 2014 Public Input Meeting in Edmonton) -- the 3 biggest cities up to that point (started looking at them on Monday, kept browser windows open until lunchtime today)
Quoteand it has Gnome 3 which is the basic GUI which I am quite familiar with now
Gnome 3 comes with only one real window manager which is compositing only (Gnome Shell), and emulates a touch interface like ubuntu's retarded crap (Unity) does. It's not your standard desktop interface. Linux got infected with the touch too sadly.
I am not a fan of touch interfaces on workstations. also those two only support compositing, meaning you need a decent gpu to handle the fancy rendering effects.
KDE 4 at least lets you pick between a touch and desktop interface, as well as between compositing on and off.
You could go lighter still with XFCE (Semi heavy), LXDE (light) or Razor-Qt (light, my fav of the three for weak computers).
As for that bill 9/10 stuff, can you (Darren) link to a decent article (or two) that goes over both? :o
Quote from: Tom on June 26, 2014, 03:55:11 PM
As for that bill 9/10 stuff, can you (Darren) link to a decent article (or two) that goes over both? :o
There's plenty of critiques and summaries out there -- just Google
Alberta bill 9 pension reform. But what I wanted was less of a "news copy" angle, instead I was seeking the Personal Touch here. I wanted to hear word-for-word the stories of Real Albertans who have been working in public sector for 25 or 20 or even 2 years who were Speaking Truth To Power about how the proposed changes to retirement pension (it's not just amounts, but # of years) would impact them personally ... and what that would mean for their industry as well (most of them: even harder than it already is to convince young ambituous smart workers to even bother coming aboard at the expense of their own economic security)
re. Bill 9: in brief, the government is trying to push so-called "reform" which will add 5 more years to most people's length of time they must work before getting "full" pension, and the current penalty of "3% per year" for "early" retirement will go up to 5%. In my personal case if I stayed here and wanted to retire @ 60 after vs before these proposed changes, I would be losing $500/month. And a lot of people at these meetings were calling bull@%&# on the claim that "reform" of this type is even needed for so-called "unfunded" liabilities, which they all claim are just fear-mongering and not based on proveable facts. The media have talked a bit about that, but so far I have not seen any stories including the government's official fact-based rebuttal. One thing that is not made clear often enough to the mass audience: these pensions are not a "free gift" from our employer; they are a 50:50 split -- personally I am forced to contribute nearly $500 every single 2-week payday into a retirement plan that if I am lucky I will be able to enjoy for 20 years, although most likely less.
Anyway... enough polyticks for now :)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 26, 2014, 11:35:47 AM
What about cloud virtualization? Then you could play with it anywhere
On that note:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2368200/google-reacts-to-office-365-momentum-with-beefier-apps-suite.html
Google. $10/month. NO LIMITS.
Take that, M$!
Darren, thats the kind of thing I was looking for :) I did google bill 9 and read a bit, but I don't much like reading "main stream" (god that made me shudder saying that) news.
Jebus, I had no idea that you were referring to Bill 9 with your link. Seriously, the words that are only in your head and not on the screen, we can't read them.
If I follow your train of thought correctly, you're thinking of quitting your public sector job and moving to the private sector because your pension plan might get altered and pay out less than is currently planned? And you figure that switching to the private sector, you'll make more money and/or have more money put into a pension plan? Remember, we compared incomes and you make more money than us in the private sector and also we don't have a pension plan at all?
Also, this thread took a weird turn. Linux on the old laptop is probably the best idea for you, so you don't have to follow any crazy government rules. Except you'll still have to figure out how to get internet - I still suggest an internet stick, or even using your phone as a hotspot if you have a data plan.
Quote from: Thorin on June 26, 2014, 05:22:19 PM
If I follow your train of thought correctly, you're thinking of quitting your public sector job and moving to the private sector because your pension plan might get altered and pay out less than is currently planned? And you figure that switching to the private sector, you'll make more money and/or have more money to put into a pension plan?
(http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1299706408198.gif)
Quote
Linux on the old laptop is probably the best idea for you, so you don't have to follow any crazy government rules. Except you'll still have to figure out how to get internet - I still suggest an internet stick, or even using your phone as a hotspot if you have a data plan.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--D-rfGecOvI/U2kRjSEPw8I/AAAAAAAAKxM/ysa5GbSkCIM/s1600/Seems-legit-Norton.gif)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on June 26, 2014, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on June 26, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
Oh yeah. I have an old dell laptop you can have. It'll run Linux just fine. The battery won't hold a charge but it's yours if you want it
Thanks dude! Def no harm in trying it out (leaving it plugged in when I need it if the battery is that bad) and as a bonus nobody @ home will be tempted to borrow it ;)
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/10/10a91f390c848040a71f4a9b14eba0167857c4c8a32bdfb2d23da78929cc6487.jpg)
Hey bud not sure if you've had the time to prep that laptop yet? If so I could meet with you tonight, message me on the forum ok...
I have not, I can get it ready in a couple of days if that works
Yeah that would be great -- the laptop at home went kaput, seems the charging cord ain't working, and it's like $50 for a new one and a 2-week order wait @ MemoryExpress because it's rare (3 year old laptop) ... vs $400 or less to get a new low-level family laptop hmmm... ;)
But yeah I would appreciate having "my own" for my developer training self-directed fun... thanks!
Just as a warning this beast is O.L.D.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 08:51:39 AM
Just as a warning this beast is O.L.D.
Any idea of specs or make/model (if it was a pre-built from FutureShop (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category/laptops/33620.aspx?type=product&filter=category%253aComputers%2B%2526%2BTablets%253bcategory%253aLaptops%2B%2526%2BMacBooks%253bcategory%253aLaptops%253bcurrentoffers0enrchstring%253aOn%2BClearance%257cOn%2BSale&page=1&sortBy=price&sortDir=asc) or Walmart (http://www.walmart.ca/en/electronics/computers-accessories/laptops/N-1855/page-1) etc.) ... just curious re. HD space and RAM and cpu speed mainly... decently powered @%&# is cheap nowawdays... (example (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hp-2000-2d09ca-156-notebook-with-amd-e-300-13-ghz-processor-in-black-licorice/6000159562824))
It's a Dell Latitude C610
http://www.pcworld.com/product/8423/latitude-610c-notebook.html
I was running Eclipse on Ubuntu on it for a while, seemed fast enough for what I was doing with it.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
It's a Dell Latitude C610
http://www.pcworld.com/product/8423/latitude-610c-notebook.html
I was running Eclipse on Ubuntu on it for a while, seemed fast enough for what I was doing with it.
Does it still have 128MB ram, and a 10GB hard drive? I seem to recall eclipse needing a bit more memory than that :D lol.
Quote from: Tom on July 07, 2014, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
It's a Dell Latitude C610
http://www.pcworld.com/product/8423/latitude-610c-notebook.html
I was running Eclipse on Ubuntu on it for a while, seemed fast enough for what I was doing with it.
Does it still have 128MB ram, and a 10GB hard drive? I seem to recall eclipse needing a bit more memory than that :D lol.
Oh the Java hate is strong with this one...
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
It's a Dell Latitude C610
http://www.pcworld.com/product/8423/latitude-610c-notebook.html
I was running Eclipse on Ubuntu on it for a while, seemed fast enough for what I was doing with it.
Ummm... 10gb hard drive and 125MB of RAM with max of 1.0GB? I think with those specs it might actually be even too old for this old geezer (who keeps computers for 4 or 5 years at a stretch)
Thanks though -- but I doubt it will be as useful to me as I had hoped (e.g. was hoping to install Windows XP/7 with VirtualBox with a Linux GUI guest, ideally) ... don't worry about spending any time on it for me :P
Guess it's laptop bargain hunting time... There is a super-sweet deal I found from Future Shop but apparently sold out :grumble:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/asus-asus-k53z-15-6-laptop-black-amd-a4-3300m-1tb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-7-k53z-fh41-cb/10233051.aspx?path=2886d636a8f910037a47c83f54d85929en02
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: Tom on July 07, 2014, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 07, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
It's a Dell Latitude C610
http://www.pcworld.com/product/8423/latitude-610c-notebook.html
I was running Eclipse on Ubuntu on it for a while, seemed fast enough for what I was doing with it.
Does it still have 128MB ram, and a 10GB hard drive? I seem to recall eclipse needing a bit more memory than that :D lol.
Oh the Java hate is strong with this one...
Dude, I do Android dev. Eclipse is a /dog/.
In the trash it goes :-)
So... any other places u guys suggest I shop around at for a decent non-gaming laptop (4gb RAM, 500gb HDD, numeric keypad) at under $450?
MemEx
Walmart
FutureShop/BestBuy
The Source
Laptop Depot
Sal's Back-Alley Discount Laptorium
That Place In Westmount Mall (really)
(and note to self: also decide if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_USB or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine is the better way to go for my ongoing Odin Project studies... )
NCIX.com
Sent from Tapatalk
Quote from: Darren Dirt on July 08, 2014, 07:51:28 AM
So... any other places u guys suggest I shop around at for a decent non-gaming laptop (4gb RAM, 500gb HDD, numeric keypad) at under $450?
Memory Express (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/LaptopsNotebooks?FilterID=2aa66682-5ef5-4eb7-dc0e-b59fb10b7331)
-$429.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD E2-3800 quad-core 2mbCache 1.3 GHz 15.6" LED , until July 31st (then $449.99) (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX50761)
#mehCache -$429.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD E1-2500 dual-core 1mbCache 1.4 GHz 15.6" LCD (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX46817)
#mehCache -$399.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD E2-1800 dual-core 1mbCache 1.7 GHz 15.6" LED, until July 31 (then $429.99) (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX42039)
NCIX.com (http://www.ncix.com/category/notebooks-mainstream-15-6-65-1322-701.htm)
-$442.34 for 4gb/500gb AMD E2-3800 quad-core 2mbCache 1.3 GHz 15.6" LCD (http://www.ncix.com/detail/hp-15-g020ca-notebook-amd-e2-3800-5c-95903.htm)
-$384.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron 2955U dual-core 2mbCache 1.4 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.ncix.com/detail/acer-aspire-e1-532-2448-intel-celeron-d6-92074.htm)
-$399.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium 3556U dual-core 2mbCache 1.7 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.ncix.com/detail/acer-aspire-e1-532p-4819-intel-pentium-f2-97524-1060.htm)
#mehCache -$449.00 for 4gb/500gb AMD E1-2100 dual-core 1mbCache 1.0 GHz 15.6" (LED? LCD?) (http://www.ncix.com/detail/asus-x552ea-amd-e1-2100-4gb-68-97680.htm)
#mehCache -$448.98 for 4gb/500gb AMD E1-2100 dual-core 1mbCache 1.0 GHz 15.6" (LED? LCD?) (http://www.ncix.com/detail/asus-x552ea-qba-amd-e1-2100-4gb-e0-97807.htm)
Walmart (http://www.walmart.ca/en/electronics/computers-accessories/laptops/N-1855/page-1)
-$348.00 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron N2920 quad-core 2mbCache 1.86 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/acer-aspire-e1-510-2821-156-notebook-intel-n2920-quad-core-processor-2mb-cache-186%20GHz-20%20GHz-with-intel-burst-technology/6000175327526)
#mehCache -$398.00 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron N2810 1mbCache 2.0 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/hp-15-d010ca-notebook-intel-celeron-n2810-processor/6000176617022)
#mehCache 6gb! -$428.00 for 6gb/750gb AMD E1-2500 dual-core 1mbCache 1.4 GHz 15.6" LCD (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/acer-aspire-e1-522-3884-mainstream-156-notebook-amd-e1-2500-processor-1mb-l2-cache-14%20GHz/6000140685622)
#mehCache -$368.00 for 4gb/320gb AMD E-300 dual-core 1mbCache 1.3 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/gateway-ne51b05h-156-notebook-amd-vision-e300-dual-core-processor-1mb-l2-cache-13%20GHz/6000066024313)
#mehCache -$335.00 for 4gb/320gb AMD E1-2100 dual-core 1mbCache 1.0 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/11984336-hp-15-g029ca-notebook-156-with-amd-e1-2100-accelerated-processor/6000166130183)
Future Shop (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category/laptops/33620.aspx?type=product&filter=category%253aComputers%2B%2526%2BTablets%253bcategory%253aLaptops%2B%2526%2BMacBooks%253bcategory%253aLaptops%253bcurrentoffers0enrchstring%253aOn%2BClearance%257cOn%2BSale&page=1&sortBy=price&sortDir=asc)
-$399.95 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3520U quad-core 2mbCache 2.17 GHz 15.6" LCD (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/acer-acer-aspire-e1-15-6-laptop-black-intel-pentium-n3520-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-1-e1-510-4457/10284821.aspx?path=7ef3a4298fa61c759af281f85a1323d5en02)
-$429.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron N2920 quad-core 2mbCache 1.86 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/acer-acer-aspire-e-15-6-laptop-black-intel-celeron-n2920-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-nx-mgraa-001/10296316.aspx?path=a091a4c419c36df25ca745701cb8704ben02)
BestBuy (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/category/laptops/36711.aspx?type=product&page=1&sortBy=price&sortDir=asc)
8gb! -$499.99 for 8gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2mbCache 2.16 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-r038ca-15-6-laptop-black-intel-pentium-n3530-500gb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-1-15-r038ca/10298751.aspx?path=0a8bc6d9af8c4ef232e47d439a31c367en02)
8gb! -$399.99 for 8gb/500gb Intel Core i5-3337U dual-core 3mbCache 1.8 GHz 15.6" , until July 21st (then $499.99) (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/gateway-gateway-ne-series-15-6-laptop-silver-intel-core-i5-3337u-500gb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-ne57003h/10270711.aspx?path=3ba61251ea15c217aeba0c5c40d0f0bfen02)
-$429.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron N2920 quad-core 2mbCache 1.86 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/acer-acer-aspire-e-15-6-laptop-black-intel-celeron-n2920-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-nx-mgraa-001/10296316.aspx?path=212c4765854c2d00eeb058af1b7c9344en02)
-$399.99 for 4gb/320gb AMD E2-6110 quad-core 2mbCache 1.5 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-15-6-laptop-black-amd-quad-core-e2-6110-320gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-1-15-g048ca/10299411.aspx?path=ed4db03742e538d91166110e44be9999en02)
-$449.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD E2-3800 quad-core 2mbCache 1.3 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-6-laptop-black-amd-e2-3800-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-15-g020ca/10288528.aspx?path=3244c969d0d77d7d9792a8d466524577en02)
-$399.95 for 4gb/500gb AMD A4-5000 dual-core 2mbCache 1.5 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-c50-15-6-touchscreen-laptop-silver-amd-a4-5000-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-pscfwc-00t002/10271987.aspx?path=2a6cc84312de6e34922badb2979c1978en02)
#mehCache -$449.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Celeron N2810 1mbCache 2.0 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-6-laptop-black-intel-celeron-n2810-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-15-d010ca/10288526.aspx?path=47ffa4225c0cc5d9481770f85eaef558en02)
#mehCache -$399.99 for 4gb/320gb AMD E2-1800 dual-core 1mbCache 1.7 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/asus-asus-x55u-15-6-laptop-black-amd-e2-1800-320gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-x55u-rb21-cb/10285469.aspx?path=4f072b5af718a5b00a3554e9bc37341aen02)
#mehCache -$399.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD E1-2100 dual-core 1mbCache 1.0 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-c50d-b-15-6-laptop-black-amd-e1-2100-500gb-hdd-4gb-ram-windows-8-1-c50d-b-018/10299018.aspx?path=d95e9844555af1f6da26855688dd5adfen02)
The Source (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/category.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=laptops)
-$299.96 for 4gb/320gb Intel Celeron B830 dual-core 2mbCache 1.8 GHz 15.6" , until July 13 (then $379.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Everyday&product=8006150)
-$399.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3520U quad-core 2mbCache 2.17 GHz 15.6" LED, until July 30th (then $499.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Entertainment&product=8018365)
-$429.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2mbCache 2.16 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Everyday&product=8022305)
-$399.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD A6-6310 quad-core 2mbCache 2.4 GHz 15.6" LED, until July 30th (then $449.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Everyday&product=8022300)
Computer-Depot.ca (http://www.computer-depot.ca/systems.php?action=systems&protypes=Laptop)
Laptop Depot
Sal's Back-Alley Discount Laptorium
That Place In Westmount Mall (really)
(and note to self: also decide if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_USB or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine is the better way to go for my ongoing Odin Project studies... )
I'll use this post to maintain a list of links to the websites' not-high-end laptop sections, and to potential candidates and Really Sweet Deals.
Note to self:
just make a decision and act on it already, yeesh!
(weekend plans)
---------------------
I finished using Google to visit the appropriate page on site:intel.com and site:amd.com to get official info re. cache & GHz info on each laptop processor choice...
So then I decided to maybe only go with just quad-core laptops (with numeric keypads, of course). I don't think dual-core would be better in any way (unless perhaps power consumption, but minimally).
So from there I produced a "short list" of CPUs:
Intel Celeron N2920
Intel Pentium N3530
Intel Pentium N3520U
AMD E2-3800
AMD E2-6110
AMD A6-6310
From this I did a basic comparison @ a couple of cool websites to confirm which CPUs were older/newer and which were apples vs apples or apples vs non-apples... ( I also found really helpful the long-maintained grid of chip info @ http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=347 )
(Intel)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3530-vs-Intel-Celeron-N2920
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3520-vs-Intel-Celeron-N2920
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3530-vs-Intel-N3520
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/719/Intel_Mobile_Celeron_N2920_vs_Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3530.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/718/Intel_Mobile_Celeron_N2920_vs_Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3520.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/742/Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3520_vs_Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3530.html
(/Intel)
(AMD)
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD-E2-3800-vs-AMD-E2-6110
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD-E2-3800-vs-AMD-A6-6310
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD-E2-6110-vs-AMD-A6-6310
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/142/AMD_E2-Series_E2-3800_vs_AMD_E2-Series_E2-6110.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/483/AMD_A6-Series_for_Notebooks_A6-6310_vs_AMD_E2-Series_E2-3800.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/480/AMD_A6-Series_for_Notebooks_A6-6310_vs_AMD_E2-Series_E2-6110.html
(/AMD)
So it looks like maybe it's a no-brainer if it's just $50 or so difference between Intel vs AMD:
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3530-vs-AMD-A6-6310
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/282/AMD_A6-Series_for_Notebooks_A6-6310_vs_Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3530.html
Other than rated speed and power, the hardware specs for the various laptops themselves seem similar to each (e.g. quad-core, 2mb L2 cache, 500gb HD, 15.6" presumably-LED display...) so from the above I "shorter-listed" down to this "best under-500 CPU at a decent price" selection...
1. Intel Pentium N3530 (cpu=Feb2014; 2.16 GHz for $429 @ TheSource for 4gb RAM, or $499 @ BestBuy for 8gb RAM)
or
2. Intel Pentium N3520U (cpu=Nov2013; 2.17 GHz for $399 [reg price $499] @ TheSource for 4gb RAM)
(I'm guessing that chip #1 has replaced #2 since they are virtually identical specs; cpuboss.com above benchmarked #1 as insignificantly faster than #2)
or
3. AMD A6-6310 (cpu=Apr2014; 2.4 GHz for $399 @ TheSource for 4gb RAM)
1a. TheSource: $429.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2mbCache 2.16 GHz 15.6" LED (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Everyday&product=8022305)
(1a is apparently red ... but also out of stock around Edmonton right now :( )
1b. BestBuy: $499.99 for 8gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2mbCache 2.16 GHz 15.6" (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-15-r038ca-15-6-laptop-black-intel-pentium-n3530-500gb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-1-15-r038ca/10298751.aspx?path=0a8bc6d9af8c4ef232e47d439a31c367en02)
2. TheSource: $399.99 for 4gb/500gb Intel Pentium N3520U quad-core 2mbCache 2.17 GHz 15.6" LED (July 30th $499.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Entertainment&product=8018365)
3. TheSource: $399.99 for 4gb/500gb AMD A6-6310 quad-core 2mbCache 2.4 GHz 15.6" LED (July 30th $449.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Everyday&product=8022300)
*** *** ***
So what are your guys' thoughts re. the stated CPU speeds (similar caches, although Intels have half the size of L2 since they also have L3) -- specifically, what would I expect the impact on ACTUAL performance I will encounter when I go through Odin Project stuff
(based on http://cpuboss.com/blog/this-comic-will-help-you-help-your-friends-choose-their-next-computer/ I will be clear, I expect to doing this kind of stuff: running VirtualBox, compiling code, running web and db server, moving around thousands of files on the HD etc..)
*** *** ***
If they are likely to be pretty similar, I would guess the Intel is the better choice due to its lower voltage and TDP (~power rating) -- Intel = 0.4-1.14V and 7.5W , AMD = 0.5-1.4V and 15W.
And if there is a major difference in look or comfort or weight in laptops, that might be the final decision point (if not much difference otherwise).
...oh great, I just discovered THIS:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/flyers/laptop-sales/
:sigh: more research I guess... (ps: the 8gb laptop @ BestBuy is MSRP, and is also same @ FutureShop)
If it's a dev box just go for all the RAM you can get
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 12, 2014, 06:09:42 PM
If it's a dev box just go for all the RAM you can get
LOL exactly why I've now upped my specs to include the 8gb RAM (and pretty much decided on non-AMD and definitely non-Celeron)
There ya go
eep! an even better deal on 8gb laptop...
FutureShop: "Toshiba Satellite L50-B" $449.99 8gb/1000gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2.16 GHz 2mbCache 15.6" LED, until July 14th (then $549.99) (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-l50-b-15-6-laptop-gold-intel-pentium-n3530-1tb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-1-l50-b-02w/10298967.aspx?path=389a1c9bc83d97df1876a4e21de5470cen02)
( vs same exact thing @ BestBuy but for $499.99 #wtf (http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-l50-b-15-6-laptop-gold-intel-pentium-n3530-1tb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-1-l50-b-02w/10298967.aspx?path=017f8c94c626b6211b375b440efbaa9ben02) )
...and a similar deal @ TheSource: $499.99 for 8gb/500gb Intel Core i5-3337U dual-core 3mbCache 1.8 GHz 15.6" , until July 30th (then $599.99) (http://www.thesource.ca/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&ref=3445&product=8021253&aff=cj&utm_campaign=cj_affiliate_sale&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=cj&utm_content=749547&utm_term=10790714)
But I had removed that one earlier from my short list due to its "dual core".
So is that really that much worse than "quad core", especially for the stuff I will be doing?
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/803/Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-3337U_vs_Intel_Mobile_Pentium_N3530.html
yeah, kinda -- but the dual-core "requires much more power" :(
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3530-vs-Intel-Core-i5-3337U
again, WAY worse for power consumption ... and oh yeah I forgot it's got a TINY L2cache :( So ... meh.
Depending on the tools you're using having more cores is better, I mean let's say you have a database running along side a debugger alongside a browser, having more CPU helps there as you can imagine.
I mean when it comes to a dev machine you can go fairly deep when it comes to specs but it really depends on what kind of development you're planning on. More power is always better, and hardware is cheap
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 12, 2014, 06:26:51 PM
Depending on the tools you're using having more cores is better, I mean let's say you have a database running along side a debugger alongside a browser, having more CPU helps there as you can imagine.
I mean when it comes to a dev machine you can go fairly deep when it comes to specs but it really depends on what kind of development you're planning on. More power is always better, and hardware is cheap
Looks like the WINNER is gonna be FutureShop: "Toshiba Satellite L50-B" $449.99 8gb/1000gb Intel Pentium N3530 quad-core 2.16 GHz 2mbCache 15.6" LED, until July 14th (then $549.99) (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-l50-b-15-6-laptop-gold-intel-pentium-n3530-1tb-hdd-8gb-ram-windows-8-1-l50-b-02w/10298967.aspx?path=389a1c9bc83d97df1876a4e21de5470cen02) (barring any last-minute candidates entering my awareness)
Might even grab it tonight ... since July 14th is coming up fast!
Quote from: Darren Dirt on July 12, 2014, 06:11:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 12, 2014, 06:09:42 PM
If it's a dev box just go for all the RAM you can get
LOL exactly why I've now upped my specs to include the 8gb RAM (and pretty much decided on non-AMD and definitely non-Celeron)
Celeron is ancient history, it is Atom and i3 at the bottom. A high end i3 isn't too bad but I would go i5 to be safe.
Sent from Tapatalk
Ancient history yeah, tell that to the retail purchasers who need to offer an uber-cheap laptop to basic consumers... :p C-word is definitely useless for my needs tho.
At this time I'd lean toward Intel anyway. I guess my point is you can shop around and get something pretty good for dev work for under a thousand bux but you can never have a fast enough machine. So like I said before, get as much ram and as many cores as you can get. My old laptop (2 cores, 4 GB) is like molasses in January and I probably lose about an hour a day to it just because it's SO BAD
The other thing I would also consider is buying from a place that doesn't include the Windows tax.
...but MemoryExpress is all AMD :(
Going to FS now. Final Answer. methinks $450 for Intel with 8gb RAM and 1TB of HDD is pretty sweet deal. Toshiba is good name for laptops too, amirite?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 13, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
At this time I'd lean toward Intel anyway. I guess my point is you can shop around and get something pretty good for dev work for under a thousand bux but you can never have a fast enough machine. So like I said before, get as much ram and as many cores as you can get. My old laptop (2 cores, 4 GB) is like molasses in January and I probably lose about an hour a day to it just because it's SO BAD
The other thing I would also consider is buying from a place that doesn't include the Windows tax.
I have to agree with many of these points. get the beefiest machine you can afford. My work laptop is a beast. quad core i7 with HT, 32GB ram, and near 1TB of ssd space. I've made a few alterations ;D hehhe. nothing seems to make it feel slow, except when using firefox, or chrome gets too bogged down.
Quote from: Tom on July 13, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
My work laptop is a beast. quad core i7 with HT, 32GB ram, and near 1TB of ssd space. I've made a few alterations ;D hehhe. nothing seems to make it feel slow, except when using firefox, or chrome gets too bogged down.
YOU'RE a beast, sir.
I think having 8gb RAM on my new laptop is gonna be fine for what I'll be doing -- heck my home PC is still just 4gb! (although it's Windows 7, not 8.1).
The 953GB hard drive space (i.e. 1000*1000*1000 instead of 1024*1024*1024 argh marketing lol) should be great for my plan of doing lots of backups of my VM as I proceed in the Project. I expect to leave Windows as pretty much defaults for the most part, don't want to get side-tracked into making my laptop anyting beyond a "work machine". Otherwise I'll never get thru my coursework and be hating life.
Have a great weekend everybody! Charging my new toy now... Gonna get started on Monday after work #woohoo
PS:
Quote from: Tom on July 13, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
quad core i7 with HT
I'm curious, which one? http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i7-processor.html
Cuz I wonder the benchmarks @ http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-N3530-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4700HQ (or whatever it is)
Wow, I am definitely glad I got *8* gb RAM ... seems like Win8.1 + Chrome = more than 1.5gb used. Before I even launch VirtualBox or get some kind of server running in the background.
Spent much of last night just removing a few un-needed things, getting used to the Win8 GUI interface, and tweaking some things esp. getting my touchpad working just perfectly so I pretty much never have to touch the keyboard unless alpha-num characters are needed :)
Tonight just gotta install Firefox and a few extensions for my web browsers that I totally rely on (Ad Blocker, open-tab-at-the-end, etc.) and then I will actually get started on my coursework #SeriousBusinessTime
Two words: Classic Shell
http://www.classicshell.net/
There are others out there, this one is pretty good though
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 14, 2014, 09:50:24 AM
Two words: Classic Shell
http://www.classicshell.net/
There are others out there, this one is pretty good though
LOL! Two words: remember how you mocked me when I complained about how things were "too different" in Windows 7 but you told me to push through it and get used to the changes, at least give them a chance?
Well, I'm kinda doing that with Windows 8 now. I'm avoiding the tiles though. I'm just not a visual guy, and my impatience + years of typing to make stuff happen way faster = hating the tiles.
(although eventually I will likely install ClassicShell. ;) )
Windows 8 is actually hostile to desktop users, so I don't see the comparison, 8 is just a bad GUI period, full stop.
Microsoft was told again and again during the beta test period and still pushed this new experience on users. But it's the old Microsoft story, Vista was bad Windows 7 was good. That they've reverted so much already is proof enough. My prediction is Windows 9 will be a Windows 8 reskin with a working start menu.
Windows 8 (and by extension Server 2012) has been one of the most painful things I've ever seen leak out of Redmond. Even some of the Windows 8 inspired mess that's been integrated with tablet or touch screen enabled Windows 7 has been a pain to work around WITH A TABLET (zoom was replaced by *pinch and zoom*, two very different things that I had to manually override through DRIVER settings, having to manually disable Flicks [but can't fully remove it], stylus tap != click [you have to disable hold to right click], etc)
What Microsoft did right though is let you easily customize your UI, something that was not impossible before but certainly harder to manage, so if there's something that you want you can either find it in their app store or make it yourself.
The real sad part though is that under the hood Windows 8 is actually a fairly decent OS, just instead of a roll with some paper on it they gave you three shells
I am just glad they hacked title bars back into the native apps so you can move them around when you are using a keyboard/mouse
Quote from: Lazybones on July 14, 2014, 01:56:39 PM
I am just glad they hacked title bars back into the native apps so you can move them around when you are using a keyboard/mouse
Amen to that brotha
8.1 has a lot of improvements like that
Quote from: Mr. Analog on July 14, 2014, 01:50:49 PM
The real sad part though is that under the hood Windows 8 is actually a fairly decent OS, just instead of a roll with some paper on it they gave you threeshells*
idk why but that made me think of this brilliant prank (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159724901&p=1247975103&viewfull=1#post1247975103)!
*Wait, was that a
pun?
hahaha oh man yes (also eww!) and yes
Explorer in Windows 8 is certainly different than before ... but I did not realize just how much they made it different. Because science.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/29/improvements-in-windows-explorer.aspx
Ech
I'm on Windows 8.1 now. Win+E still brings up Windows Explorer. I minimized the ribbon right away but I do understand how after they were told to have a ribbon to match all the other Microsoft products, they started talking about what a great idea that was. "You have to use the Ribbon, now come up with reasons why that's a good idea!"
The typical keyboard shortcuts still work (Ctrl+C to copy, Ctrl+V to paste, Ctrl+X to cut, etc). If you double-click a file or press Enter while a file is highlighted, it will open with the default registered application, as before.
However, I still have TeraCopy installed because it's twice as fast at copying or moving files. And TeraCopy can handle multiple file copy operations at the same time, using separate read and write buffers in different ways depending on whether you're copying from one spot to another on the same physical drive or on two separate physical drives.
Win 8.1's version of Windows Explorer works fine and the ribbon isn't a terrible idea compared to what else they could've done. I think the ribbon is probably easier to use on touch devices, and doesn't necessarily impose a burden on mouse users. And the old keyboard shortcuts are still there for keyboard warriors like me. Windows Explorer is not why I hate Win 8.1.
Like I said before get Start8 or something. It makes 8 a lot more usable ☺
If you don't mind spending a few bucks http://www.startisback.com/ is really good.. I haven't gone back to try the free ones again lately but there where two things that made me pick startisback.
1. Speed (found Start+ searching slower with some of them)
2. True look and feel (they get the classic start menu looks more accurately than some)
I've heard really good things about that app too