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General => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Melbosa on November 27, 2017, 11:11:45 PM

Title: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on November 27, 2017, 11:11:45 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 10:58:46 PM
Looks like the RX 560 might be the best over all card for what I am looking for..

A bit cheaper and a bit better hash rates. Very common..
Hehe yeah better at mining... not as much at gaming as the 1050 Ti but you want dual purpose.

I too am starting down the mining road, with a 1050 Ti, 960, 760, and 660 Ti.  I also have a 295 I can throw into the mix, but not sure my 1000 Watt PSU can handle all that.  I know you were looking for used cards, and it looks like I have a lot, but I already bought everything I need to do the mining thing so they were spoken for... and I don't think you wanted a GTX 295 for your kids :P
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 11:15:08 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on November 27, 2017, 11:11:45 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 10:58:46 PM
Looks like the RX 560 might be the best over all card for what I am looking for..

A bit cheaper and a bit better hash rates. Very common..
Hehe yeah better at mining... not as much at gaming as the 1050 Ti but you want dual purpose.

I too am starting down the mining road, with a 1050 Ti, 960, 760, and 660 Ti.  I also have a 295 I can throw into the mix, but not sure my 1000 Watt PSU can handle all that.

What are you planning on mining? Most of the big ones are not all the efficent to mine but some of the lesser ones are profitable or you can be lazy and use nicehash to sell your compute time. Purchasing tends to be more efficient than mining for the most part unless you have cheap power and most of the parts already.


Sure beats tossing money and power at a space header in the winter.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 11:15:08 PM
...you can be lazy and use nicehash to sell your compute time. Purchasing tends to be more efficient than mining for the most part unless you have cheap power and most of the parts already.
^ This

I've only bought some PCIe 1x to USB PCIe 16x slots adapters... rest I already had on hand, including PSU, Mobo, Case, and Vids.  Cova and I are testing some 3D printer mounts for them this week, and I should be off to the races... for as long as them cards will last.  Hoping to get a year or more out of the setup, and then we'll see about purchasing some actual mining cards.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 12:06:57 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 11:15:08 PM
...you can be lazy and use nicehash to sell your compute time. Purchasing tends to be more efficient than mining for the most part unless you have cheap power and most of the parts already.
^ This

Sort of the same boat, however I am pooling all of my PCs so I sort of just picked one currency to mine, currently that is Monero (XMR) You can combine CPU and CPU mining on one machine with it, I am also interested in collecting some of it because it has some decent value or could be traded on an exchange for another currency if desired. I run xmr-stake or xmr-stake-cpu in the background of all the home PCs or when idle.

Nice hash sort of requires a dedicated machine to mine with as it sits in the foreground and swaps out mineing tools / time but that sounds like the path you are going for anyway.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 12:18:42 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 12:06:57 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on November 27, 2017, 11:15:08 PM
...you can be lazy and use nicehash to sell your compute time. Purchasing tends to be more efficient than mining for the most part unless you have cheap power and most of the parts already.
^ This

Sort of the same boat, however I am pooling all of my PCs so I sort of just picked one currency to mine, currently that is Monero (XMR) You can combine CPU and CPU mining on one machine with it, I am also interested in collecting some of it because it has some decent value or could be traded on an exchange for another currency if desired. I run xmr-stake or xmr-stake-cpu in the background of all the home PCs or when idle.

Nice hash sort of requires a dedicated machine to mine with as it sits in the foreground and swaps out mineing tools / time but that sounds like the path you are going for anyway.
Yeah.  I had all this hardware lying around and have tried to sell each separately at different times, but nothing would go.  Then Cova showed me what he was doing with nicehash, and well we got talking.  Turns out I was just 4 adapters shy of turning an old Q6600 P5K Deluxe 8GB Ram 256GB HD 1000 Watt PSU into a dedicated mining machine.  So that's where i am at.

And as you said, I have a space heater in the basement at my desk that I use when I do work/game on my PC that I probably will not need to use anymore... so win/win lol
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 12:18:42 AM
And as you said, I have a space heater in the basement at my desk that I use when I do work/game on my PC that I probably will not need to use anymore... so win/win lol

Ya I probably would be less interest if it wasn't using the power for space heating in the winter. In the summer it is very inefficient and possibly challenging to keep things from overheating.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on November 28, 2017, 06:26:07 AM
Speaking of mining, someone "broke in to" my web server last night. They tried hard to use sudo as that user they "cracked" to do some nasty stuff, but it didn't work. thankfully.

they likely used nohup on me, which made it confusing when kill didn't work. ended up using htop and sigkill. I could probably have just added -KILL to kill but meh, didn't think about it at the time.

I am now seriously worried that the entire box is compromised, but I see no direct evidence.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 07:24:57 AM
I thought at this point in the game mining from home wasn't worth it anymore

@Tom sorry to hear about your intrusion man!
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on November 28, 2017, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 07:24:57 AM
I thought at this point in the game mining from home wasn't worth it anymore
I think BTC going up to 10k makes it more worthwhile.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Tom on November 28, 2017, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 07:24:57 AM
I thought at this point in the game mining from home wasn't worth it anymore
I think BTC going up to 10k makes it more worthwhile.

I've read a lot of comments that say after factoring power costs and hardware upkeep it's not really worth it. I've never done the math myself.

Even this is a mixed bag... with not many facts behind it
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-still-worth-it-to-mine-Bitcoin-in-2017

I know at least with value surges it tends to be more profitable but I just don't know...
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 09:58:21 AM
Quote from: Tom on November 28, 2017, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 07:24:57 AM
I thought at this point in the game mining from home wasn't worth it anymore
I think BTC going up to 10k makes it more worthwhile.

You can still purchased dedicated ASIC based systems that do nothing but mine.. If your power cost is low enough and heat isn't a problem it is a money making space heater.... Unless Bitcoin crashes.. Which everyone seems to think is a high possibility.

As for home mining, most other crypto currencies can be mined, in fact many have been designed to NOT work on dedicated ASIC hardware to help prevent the centralization of large mining companies which hold bitcoin in check currently.

If you don't want to get into the details you can use a program / service called Nice Hash which basically checks your GPU/CPU and then mines the most efficient option. It sells your CPU time to the highest bidder and pays you in bitcoin.

To mine many of the coins you still need to have fairly decent hardware... One GPU in a gaming computer isn't going to pay out much in a month (if at all), however if you can triple that power or better (common to have 6-10 GPUs in a dedicated system) you can get paid out weekly (maybe even daily).. MINUS your costs IE Power and Cooling (summer).

That is why I mention just purchasing coins directly via an exchange and treating them as a volatile / insecure stock.. You can do a lot there, however if you have the hardware or micromanage your mining hardware costs (selling off hardware and replacing with the most efficient stuff) you can profit from mining still. Its just hot and noisy.

My goal is to a little of both.. I have enough systems kicking around to passively mine, and if I mine an up and coming coin with good growth potential I can ether trade it for another or hold what ever I mine to profit later in theory.

Long and short however is that this is all highly risky.. Things could be worthless the next day and you REALLY need to ensure you protect your private keys / wallet as malware is all over that steals coins and online exchanges come and go without much regulation.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 10:00:28 AM
Great summary Lazy, thanks!
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 11:39:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 28, 2017, 10:00:28 AM
Great summary Lazy, thanks!

Wallet / private key security is a whole nother issue. Most people don't seem to understand what a wallet is or how it works with a blockchain.

Wallets basicly provide two functions. 1) they hold your private keys that identify you and your ability to move funds, they let you control your address or addresses on a blockchain. 2) they provide an interface to the blockchain to actually take actions, IE they directly connect to the block chain or a host on the block chain.

If you use an online wallet or leave money in an exchange wallet, you have left all of the control in a 3rd parties hands.

If you use a soft wallet on a PC or Smartphone, you have control of your keys, but also are responsible for loss and security of those keys.. These wallets are still considered HOT and not the best place to hold large amounts. IE don't go walking around with your life savings in your back pocket every day.

Hardware / Offline / cold wallets are trickier to deal with but provide security against online attack. If you are going hold on to substantial amounts of crypto you should look into these options and maybe split up what you (work with) with what you hold.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on November 28, 2017, 11:41:52 AM
I have gone down the NiceHash route myself.  If you have hardware that you can let run and don't need to think about this is the "Easy Button" method.  NiceHash, as Lazy pointed out, is a Broker for people looking to buy Hash computing and for people looking to sell CPU/GPU cycles.  So when a company wants to hash out some type of crypto currency they can go to NiceHash and buy so many cycles in hash, and then NiceHash will post up the required hash through its network of clients and those CPU/GPUs out there that can efficiently hash that request will change as required to that algorithm.  In tern, those doing the hashing will get paid in fraction of bitcoin for their CPU/GPU cycles.

So now that I have this running at home I can tell you some things I notice (and I'm not fully ramped up to 4 vids yet, just my two best ones):
Currently I have invested in this endeavour with new hardware at the cost of:
Total: $80 to try it out.  I've already made $3 USD since setting this up yesterday, so first month hopefully pays for the extra parts.  Everything else I have in house with hardware just lying around that was used over the years for other purposes, so not counting that cost at all as they are paid for for other reasons.  I even have a spare PSU should the existing one not run the Vids, and will use a PSU power clip to power it should I need to.

My hope is to get to about $100/month CAD on average for my first year with the aged hardware I have.  Hopefully it will last the year and then can look at either cycling the hardware as Lazy suggested in the peaks and valleys of mining or at least upgrade the older vids to newer version and maybe buy me something fun at the same time.

Either way, trying this out if/before the bubble bursts.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 28, 2017, 12:02:35 PM
It should be noted that most blockchains (not all of them are about currency) work on a proof of work model like bitcoin which is highly inefficient computation wise and resource wise.

The market may shift substantially when other popular blockchains shift to a proof of stake model that is more computationally efficient and puts less focus on mining/creation and more on holding/processing.

bitcoin is already confuses as to what it wants to be, it was once intended at a replacment for money but has become a store of value more like gold now.. Transactions take 30min or hours to confirm when busy and are very costly. It is really hard to predict what will happen in the next year or few months.

There is also a whole separate topic on forks which is more important if you trade, or hold substantial coin in a blockchain that has had a fork while you hold some.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on November 29, 2017, 10:21:05 AM
Split and moved the discussion to Tech chat.

Been watching Bitcoin and Ethereum the last few days and its nuts. Things looks more and more like a bubble but at the same time the rate things are going up are hard to resist.FOMO (fear of missing out) is super strong right now all over the web.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 06, 2017, 11:34:09 AM
Well... the bubble burst for me, if only temporarily.  Seems Nicehash may have been hacked and over 50M worth of BTN transferred out: https://www.reddit.com/r/NiceHash/comments/7hxxp3/hicehash_hacked/
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 06, 2017, 12:07:10 PM
Ouch...

As for bubbles Bitcoins price is unsustainable and linked to nearly all other crypto prices .

On the 10th a wall street futures market will open and it expected that bitcoin will be shorted and fall substantially.


Going back to Nicehash the first rule I learned when looking into crypto is NEVER leave large amounts of funds on an online / exchange wallet.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 06, 2017, 01:13:41 PM
Right now the theory is a hack. There could be other reasons or only partial hack and the transfer was a security reaction to potential hack. Until Nicehash let's us know what happened is all speculation.

I only have 20usd in funds sitting in my wallet when this happened...
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 06, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
Official Announcement.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NiceHash/comments/7i0s6o/official_press_release_statement_by_nicehash/
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on December 06, 2017, 04:41:05 PM
That is insane.  $60m USD in BTC transferred to some other wallet.  And everyone's asking, "Yeah, but how are they gonna cash it out?"
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Darren Dirt on December 07, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
WTF happened TODAY? Is there like a bunch of mega-criminals who are about to get indictments unsealed or something, hiding their assets?

https://www.usd-x.com/market/BTC/USD ( 07Dec2017 https://archive.is/Km7ok )

BTC = 12800 USD at open, 16700 high/close. YEESH, 2 weeks worth of gains in a single day (and those 2 weeks were pretty crazy too)


Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Darren Dirt on December 07, 2017, 01:30:02 PM
Meanwhile in "other crazy stuff in crypto news" there are plenty of funny-cuz-it's-true tweets under this hashtag:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CryptoKitties

Such as https://twitter.com/ethereumweekly/status/938258469836197888
"A 'killer app' called cryptokitties comes along and clogs up the 'better/faster than bitcoin' blockchain Ethereum... Embarrassing as @%&#, and now we have people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Tomagotchi you can't even hold in your hand."

and https://twitter.com/boriskozak/status/938269737410269189
"the #Ethereum API is crap, the docs are terrible, and the network is crawling. But hey, I just profited .5 ETH mining adorable cats!"
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 07, 2017, 07:04:47 PM
Yep crypto / blockchains are a crazy mostly unregulated place which is what makes them more nutty.

Expect things to get even crazier over the next two weeks as wall street opens two futures markets for bitcoin... Some people think it will keep pushing the price up, others figure that wall street will bet against bitcoin and pull out any investments in it, which will collapse bitcoin.

Also nearly everyone agrees that while bitcoin is the original it is nothing more than a not so stable store of value now.. Transaction times and costs are huge, you can't reliably buy things with it anymore, valve stopped accepting it in the steam store (didn't even noticed they did).
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
When your Bitcoin-skeptical ex from years ago hears what a single #bitcoin is worth today...

( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )


https://twitter.com/SajTheOne/status/938548703979294721

(https://archive.is/sQOIm/85e50692b4e1057397ec638c97033f734e7d9713.jpg)

Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 18, 2017, 03:43:29 PM
Well if you are into speculative trading things are still kinda going nuts.

It isn't too hard to purchase Bitcoin / Ethereum / Litecoin and trade from there (most other coins are traded in BTC) or just hold these three.

Ethereum and Litecoin are up about 70-80% in the last 7 days alone.

Only thing I would say is research, and never BET any money you can't completely lose.. There is a real risk of something causing all this speculation to drop at any time.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 18, 2017, 03:50:12 PM
I'm gonna stick with the tomato heavy portfolio.

When the apocalypse comes and people want to bite into a nice juicy mater I'll be the only game in town!
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on December 19, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.

Man, 80 at today's prices would make you a millionaire.  Of course, you never know which way it's gonna go, so it's always hard to time those sales right.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 19, 2017, 11:57:43 AM
Quote from: Thorin on December 19, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.

Man, 80 at today's prices would make you a millionaire.  Of course, you never know which way it's gonna go, so it's always hard to time those sales right.

Well when it come to trading it is better to get out while you are ahead than to try to escape as the ship sinks.

I believe Blockchain technology has a strong future but Bitcoin it self has stagnated and is hardly worth the attention it has been getting.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 19, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 19, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.

Man, 80 at today's prices would make you a millionaire.  Of course, you never know which way it's gonna go, so it's always hard to time those sales right.
Plus you would have to find someone to convert that into CDN and that could be even tougher...
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Darren Dirt on December 19, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.

"Sorry girls, he's married!" ;)
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 19, 2017, 03:15:21 PM
Looks like NiceHash will be back in Biz tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 19, 2017, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 19, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 19, 2017, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Tom on December 19, 2017, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 18, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on December 18, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
( also, kinda me, to myself 4 years ago, maybe... considering this thread http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,9923.msg76436.html )
if only Tom had kept his 10BTC!
I had up to 80 at one point. no joke.

Man, 80 at today's prices would make you a millionaire.  Of course, you never know which way it's gonna go, so it's always hard to time those sales right.
Plus you would have to find someone to convert that into CDN and that could be even tougher...


That isn?t a problem.
You can make fairly large direct deposits from QuadrigaCX.

https://www.quadrigacx.com
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
NiceHash is back... and cause lots of people jumped ship or haven't started back up, I'm doing almost 8 USD / day with my 3 GPU setup at home!  Yay for as long as that lasts lol.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
NiceHash is back... and cause lots of people jumped ship or haven't started back up, I'm doing almost 8 USD / day with my 3 GPU setup at home!  Yay for as long as that lasts lol.

Any idea how much electricity you're using per hour or day?
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
NiceHash is back... and cause lots of people jumped ship or haven't started back up, I'm doing almost 8 USD / day with my 3 GPU setup at home!  Yay for as long as that lasts lol.

Any idea how much electricity you're using per hour or day?
That calculation / day is based on a 0.10/kWh, which is higher than what we pay in Edmonton AFAIK.  As per what it is using, the Kill-A-Watt I bought doesn't calculate that over time - bought a cheap on to just see what I could run off my 1000W PSU.

I'm going to monitor my Electricity usage over the next two months to really see what it turns into.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on December 21, 2017, 02:55:51 PM
I had an ASIC miner for a while. I think it wanted somewhere along the lines of ~400W. I thought it was more but I just looked it up... It did 250Gh/s or better. Not sure if that's even good anymore. I did how ever sell it for twice what I paid for it after it mined a bunch of btc.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 21, 2017, 03:01:03 PM
GPU mining runs between 85 - 350W per card depending on many factors.

Hashrate is fairly meaningless to discuss without mentioning a specific coin being mined.

I haven?t had to run my 900/1500W space heater in my basement all month but by bill is still up from last year since the heaters don?t run 100% of the time.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on December 21, 2017, 03:04:26 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on December 21, 2017, 03:01:03 PM
GPU mining runs between 85 - 350W per card depending on many factors.

Hashrate is fairly meaningless to discuss without mentioning a specific coin being mined.

I haven?t had to run my 900/1500W space heater in my basement all month but by bill is still up from last year since the heaters don?t run 100% of the time.
It's an asic miner from BTCs heyday. it only does coins that use the same hash algorithm as bitcoin. The nice thing is you could do merged mining with it to mine multiple coins at the same time with some pools.

I believe its SHA-256.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 21, 2017, 03:28:22 PM
The ROI is only apparent when you cash out, otherwise its a monthly expense.

Do you guys withdraw enough BTC to supplement your power bill?
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
NiceHash is back... and cause lots of people jumped ship or haven't started back up, I'm doing almost 8 USD / day with my 3 GPU setup at home!  Yay for as long as that lasts lol.

Any idea how much electricity you're using per hour or day?
That calculation / day is based on a 0.10/kWh, which is higher than what we pay in Edmonton AFAIK.  As per what it is using, the Kill-A-Watt I bought doesn't calculate that over time - bought a cheap on to just see what I could run off my 1000W PSU.

I'm going to monitor my Electricity usage over the next two months to really see what it turns into.

I think it's gonna be pretty impossible to get a clear idea of how much extra electricity you're using just looking at the monthly bill.  There's so many things to balance out - how many Christmas lights are on this month?  How much more or less are you watching TV?  With the warmer winter, how much more or less are you plugging in your car?  etc

If all three cards work off your 1kW power supply, then that's your upper limit, so you could say you're using 1kWh/h or 24kWh/day or 720kWh/month.  EPCOR is currently charging $0.03287/kWh, so that's $23.67/month.  But wait, there's more!  EPCOR creates the electricity, but then a company transmits it and distributes it.  In my case, that's Fortis Alberta, here's their most recent rates (https://fortisalberta.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2017-nov-rates-options-and-riders.pdf?sfvrsn=eec59f1b_10).  There's a daily charge of $0.7577 per day, you pay it no matter what.  Then there's a charge of $0.037009/kWh for transmission, and $0.021342/kWh for distribution.  Add that to the cost of the actual electricity and you've got $0.03287 + $0.037009 + $0.021342 = $0.091221/kWh.  That works out to $65.86 per 30 days, or $2.19 per day.

So $2.19 per day is the upper limit of cost, and that's in CAD, and you're getting paid in USD, and the exchange rate is around USD$1.00 = CAD$1.25, so you're making about CAD$10 and spending about CAD$2 or less on the electricity.  So you'll make about $240 by the end of the month.  Given that you are using old hardware you'd already bought anyway, that's not bad, it's some pocket change, but if you'd had to buy the video cards, it'd take several months before you even break even...
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 21, 2017, 03:45:37 PM
There are other factors to consider.

- BTC /all crypto value is highly unstable so how much it is worth when you cash out could vary. BTC has been pumped a lot by new interest and is down / levelling off a bit this week. Monero is up 35% this week and up 199% in the last 30days. This makes picking a cash out time tricky as holding could net huge gains
- BTC is incredibly expensive to move and slow. It is actually a horrible coin right now. It can cost $8-20 USD equivalent to move funds between wallets if you need to do so to cash out.

Personally I am mining Monero directly and holding on to it for the time being.  It however is harder to cash out as it will probably need an intermediary exchange to BTC/ETH/LTC in order to then cash out in CAD but both ETH and LTC are faster and cheaper to move than BTC.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on December 22, 2017, 07:15:08 AM
I'm not worrying about it. I found it was more headache than it was worth to me. Even after making over $10k on it.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 22, 2017, 11:56:55 AM
Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
NiceHash is back... and cause lots of people jumped ship or haven't started back up, I'm doing almost 8 USD / day with my 3 GPU setup at home!  Yay for as long as that lasts lol.

Any idea how much electricity you're using per hour or day?
That calculation / day is based on a 0.10/kWh, which is higher than what we pay in Edmonton AFAIK.  As per what it is using, the Kill-A-Watt I bought doesn't calculate that over time - bought a cheap on to just see what I could run off my 1000W PSU.

I'm going to monitor my Electricity usage over the next two months to really see what it turns into.

I think it's gonna be pretty impossible to get a clear idea of how much extra electricity you're using just looking at the monthly bill.  There's so many things to balance out - how many Christmas lights are on this month?  How much more or less are you watching TV?  With the warmer winter, how much more or less are you plugging in your car?  etc
Yeah I knew it was going to be more a relative thing compared to last year's bills and previous months bills.

Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2017, 03:31:28 PM
If all three cards work off your 1kW power supply, then that's your upper limit, so you could say you're using 1kWh/h or 24kWh/day or 720kWh/month.  EPCOR is currently charging $0.03287/kWh, so that's $23.67/month.  But wait, there's more!  EPCOR creates the electricity, but then a company transmits it and distributes it.  In my case, that's Fortis Alberta, here's their most recent rates (https://fortisalberta.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2017-nov-rates-options-and-riders.pdf?sfvrsn=eec59f1b_10).  There's a daily charge of $0.7577 per day, you pay it no matter what.  Then there's a charge of $0.037009/kWh for transmission, and $0.021342/kWh for distribution.  Add that to the cost of the actual electricity and you've got $0.03287 + $0.037009 + $0.021342 = $0.091221/kWh.  That works out to $65.86 per 30 days, or $2.19 per day.

So $2.19 per day is the upper limit of cost, and that's in CAD, and you're getting paid in USD, and the exchange rate is around USD$1.00 = CAD$1.25, so you're making about CAD$10 and spending about CAD$2 or less on the electricity.  So you'll make about $240 by the end of the month.  Given that you are using old hardware you'd already bought anyway, that's not bad, it's some pocket change, but if you'd had to buy the video cards, it'd take several months before you even break even...
I knew you would want to break it down more than just an estimated monthly thing... just how you are :D.  So thanks for this!  BTW my rates are similar through my distributor, so will be close to your calculations.  Although I am not maxing out my Power consumption, so your calculations are at full load, and mine currently is averaging half load when I spot check it.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on December 22, 2017, 01:36:12 PM
Well yeah, you're right that doing the math is totally up my alley. Also, I learned that leaving a lightbulb on all day and all night all month costs about seven cents per watt per month, so using 26 watt CFLs saves about $2/month over using regular incandescents.

Oh, and my minimum bill if I use zero electricity will be around $30 just for the fixed fees.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 22, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
Crypto market took a 20% dip since yesterday so all of the profit math needs adjustment.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Mr. Analog on December 22, 2017, 01:40:14 PM
We should build a ROI calculator haha
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 22, 2017, 02:49:40 PM
There are a number of tools that already exist.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on December 22, 2017, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on December 22, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
Crypto market took a 20% dip since yesterday so all of the profit math needs adjustment.
The way the value fluxes is might be better to gage profits after month or two of actuals is in.  And while in not mining particular currencies, just selling my compute,  my payout is relative to Bitcoin's value in USD. So I to am affected by the markets, but my profit is based on my compute sold rather than trade value of a single currency, and right now my compute is still in high demand. I'm hopeful to meet 100$ CDN/month. If I can then I'm doing what I set out to do
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on December 22, 2017, 03:52:40 PM
Calculating monthly is probably best.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on July 11, 2018, 05:11:44 PM
So what did I learn today?  Keep your miners up-to-date... lol I haven't touched mine in a month until I checked today and I was mining cents on the dollar per day cause I wasn't mining new currencies.  Had to update my client lol.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on July 11, 2018, 05:40:37 PM
I just stopped mining when monero did there most recent code change.

Too much heat / cost for the summer.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Darren Dirt on September 17, 2018, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on December 07, 2017, 07:04:47 PM
Yep crypto / blockchains are a crazy mostly unregulated place which is what makes them more nutty.

Expect things to get even crazier over the next two weeks as wall street opens two futures markets for bitcoin... Some people think it will keep pushing the price up, others figure that wall street will bet against bitcoin and pull out any investments in it, which will collapse bitcoin.


Quote from: Darren Dirt on September 17, 2018, 02:57:33 PM
Bitcoin mid-December 2017 = OVER 19000!!!

Bitcoin now (mid-September 2018) = just under 6500 O_o

Ouch, for some folks.

via this friendly graphical chart thingie:
https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/price/ https://archive.is/6OvDp (archived today)

Compare to https://99bitcoins.com/price-chart-history/ archived Dec.2016 = https://archive.is/65Qg2 = graph covers mid-2010 thru late 2016, with price peaking at < 1500 in mid-2014!

SWINGS! MADNESS!

:o
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 07, 2021, 12:32:44 PM
With Bitcoin and Ethereum prices high again and my system upgraded I looked back into this.

Looks like running NiceHash on my machine could net up to $5-8 CAD per day (if ran 24/7 which it won't)
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 02:22:52 PM
$4.80 / 24 hours is $0.20/hr.  So, the question is whether that outstrips the cost of electricity.  So I started looking at my Epcor electric bills in depth, expecting that there will be some unchanging admin fees and some that change depending on usage, but all the numbers change every bill :(

After an hour of digging, I'm still not sure how the numbers are calculated, although part of the numbers are hiding a couple of non-changing admin fees.  But there's no breakdown _anywhere_.  So all I'm left with is total bill divided by kWh used.

Dec - $202.61/1,201kWh = $0.1687/kWh
Jan - $163.73/  896kWh = $0.1827/kWh
Feb - $215.82/1,092kWh = $0.1976/kWh

I did check, the price per kWh has gone up (https://www.epcor.com/products-services/power/rates-tariffs-fees/Pages/regulated-residential-power-rates.aspx), so it makes sense to see these increases.

So how much electricity do you use to generate that $4.80 per day?  If it's 1,000W/hr then you're breaking even.  For every 100W/hr below that, you're making $0.02/hr or $0.48/day or $14.40/month.  I'm guessing a good rig is using 500W/hr so you're making about $72 per month or $864 per year.  So three years until the computer doing the work has paid for itself?  Does that sound about right?

It's not a lot of money, but the pennies slowly pile up if you stick with it.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 07, 2021, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 02:22:52 PMI'm guessing a good rig is using 500W/hr so you're making about $72 per month or $864 per year.

Only GPU you have to look at your states, but my 3060 TI tops out at 200W + 142W in theory if also CPU mining but that might not be efficient.

Haven't stuck a meter on my system at full blast to double check recently. However as noted going GPU only it should be less than half that power estimate.

My power is also much cheaper, even if mining pushes me up to the step two rate.

Step 1: 1,302 kWh @ $0.0930 /kWh
Step 2: 0 kWh @ $0.1394 /kWh

Edit: side note replaced the home furnace with a new high efficiency two stage gas unit back in nov. so BOTH my gas and electrical consumption are lower this winter as I am no longer using space heaters to warm the cold spots and I am using less gas to get more heat.

Edit 2: Mining only ETH on the 3060 Ti 51.28 MH/S Power as reported by the card in software: 196W Efficiency 262kH/W
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 04:23:40 PM
Now you have me curious, how does the new furnace warm the cold spots that the old furnace didn't? Did you do something to improve air flow?

Also, good breakdown on the power used and cost per kWh. Remember that some of the admin fees will be variable based on consumption and will not be included in that per-kWh rate, so you have to add them in.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 07, 2021, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 04:23:40 PMHowie you have me curious, how does the new furnace warm the cold spots that the old furnace didn't? Did you do something to improve air flow?

We could have a separate thread, but I have a 1400sqf town house that is 3 stories where the bottom is a walk out basement. In the past the top would be SUPER hot and the basement VERY cold in winter. My 70s-80s gas furnace was single speed, and the fan was only controlled by the furnace. So the fan only ran when heating (two wire on or off).

The new furnace is a high efficiency two stage with different fan speeds and separate fan control wires for the thermostat. In the thermostat I now have a min of 15min run time set for the fan per hour. This was primarily for better filtration (another improvement in this furnace) but the added benefit is that it recirculates the air and evens out the home temp reducing hot and cold spots. The new furnace fan is also just simply more powerful even on the lower stage 1 setting, in stage 2 is even more powerful. So in general, it is not struggling to get heat into all the parts of the house, if it goes into stage two it really blasts heat.

I did also install a folding door (https://www.homedepot.ca/product/spectrum-folding-door-via-white-36-inch-48-inch-x-80-inch/1000163187) to break up the basement and make the area I work in smaller, which also helps it retain heat.

The new thermostat (ecobee 3 with remote sensors) also doesn't take readings from just the middle of the home, it now takes readings from all 3 floors and can average the room temps. This only changes the target for heating but helps make sure that if no one is up stairs the heat gets called to make the occupied space more comfortable.

Edit: pay back on a furnace upgrade on efficiency would be hard as they are expensive. I replaced the furnace to get better filtering (forest fires have been very hard on us for breathing in the summer), and the old furnace was struggling to keep the home warm and age was due for replacement. Several of my neighbors have had theirs fail (same age/unit the town homes are the same) in the last year or so.

Quote from: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 04:23:40 PMAlso, good breakdown on the power used and cost per kWh. Remember that some of the admin fees will be variable based on consumption and will not be included in that per-kWh rate, so you have to add them in.

Currently playing around with different ways to mine.. Right now trying T-Rex (https://github.com/trexminer/T-Rex/releases) directly with nanopool (https://eth.nanopool.org/) and going to let that run for a while.. Will take about a month to find out what the real pay out rate is as most of the best miners have a 1% for the developer built in and then there is also the take by the pool.

At any rate the point of the post was that with Bitcoin and Eth high right now it might be profitable to mine with a good GPU again. XMR/Monerio doesn't look profitable at the moment so I am not CPU mining.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 07, 2021, 08:05:34 PM
24h @ 200W for the month at $0.1394 /kWh = $20.07 Cost

After several hours in the pool the pool is reporting a monthly estimate of 0.06064 ETH ($121.67 CAD today)

$121.67 - $20.07 = $101.60

$1,219.20 / year minus taxes

Assuming prices stay stable and don't go down, etc etc.

Will run it for a month as see how it goes. It looks like I can run the T-REX mining program in the background no problem while not doing any heavy GPU tasks so I should get very high use.. Other than when gaming.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 08:39:36 PM
I had to do a couple maths to understand what you were saying there...  You're going to make about $121.67 for the month based on an Ethereum price around $2,000, right?  And the $20.07 is also how much electricity you're going to use in the month.  All I'd suggest is to look for other variable fees besides the direct cost of electricity, I wouldn't be surprised to see variable distribution and transmission costs on the bill that make the actual cost per kWh higher.  Still, you can make a bit of pocket money doing this.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 07, 2021, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 07, 2021, 08:39:36 PMI wouldn't be surprised to see variable distribution and transmission costs on the bill that make the actual cost per kWh higher.

Different province, different provider charges. The Step charges are the only ones that are variable on /kWh, the other charges are based on the number of days in the period and vary by month length. I pay those other delivery charges no matter what.

This is also why I use the higher step 2 rate in my estimate, even though the last few months we have been able to get our power use under the step 1 limit
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Tom on February 08, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Fun story, at one point several years ago i had somewhere around 80BTC.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 08, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: Tom on February 08, 2021, 05:08:14 PMFun story, at one point several years ago i had somewhere around 80BTC.
I think that is somewhere in this resurrected thread.

Can't change the past or predict the future.

I diluted about half of my crypto into altcoins that went to almost zero.

Plus side is if it didn't cost you to lose, vs those that YOLO at the peaks and sell at a loss putting in money the can't afford to lose.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 09, 2021, 09:42:09 AM
Math keeps changing every day, by tweaking my memory clock on my card I was able to increase my hash rate to over 59/Mh/s

According to the Pool calculator that could mean up to 0.13643 / mo or 303.23 CAD

Will have to see, the prices for crypto go up and down like a rollercoaster, but $303/mo would be well worth it.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on February 09, 2021, 10:22:21 AM
I'm still mining on my end, as my comp is never off that mines (its a workstation I use for a lot of things).  It is currently able to do $6/d CDN on its video card.  My wallet today is worth $3300 just from mining for the last year.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Lazybones on February 09, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on February 09, 2021, 10:22:21 AMMy wallet today is worth $3300 just from mining for the last year.

If you are not getting paid directly into a private wallet, don't forget to transfer out your balance from time to time to avoid losing everything.. Hosted wallets have a habit of disappearing when companies do.
Title: Re: Cryptocurrency and Mining
Post by: Melbosa on February 09, 2021, 10:26:50 AM
Quote from: Lazybones on February 09, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on February 09, 2021, 10:22:21 AMMy wallet today is worth $3300 just from mining for the last year.

If you are not getting paid directly into a private wallet, don't forget to transfer out your balance from time to time to avoid losing everything.. Hosted wallets have a habit of disappearing when companies do.
Yeah.  I went through that with NiceHash when they got hacked a while ago.  But They seem to have locked that down.