Statistical Analysis: Where To Look For Important Blocks

Started by Thorin, April 09, 2012, 04:25:43 PM

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Thorin

April 09, 2012, 04:25:43 PM
I've been pretty frustrated with how far one can mine without finding anything useful (especially if once you finally find it and mine it, you then drop in a lava pit while trying to get at that one slime you wanted to finish off before heading to the surface with an inventory full of loot I HATE LAVA*).  I googled a bit and found this interesting tool:

http://www.digital-trauma.de/mc.html

It's an interactive chart of block distribution at the different layers.  So I turned off all the layers, then turned on the following: Lava, Flowing Lava, Gold Ore, Iron Ore, Coal Ore, Lapis Lazuli Ore, Diamond Ore, and Redstone Ore.  Then I recorded what I saw.  Here's what is important about the different levels:

0-4: everything is building up; lapis lazuli builds more slowly
5: peak lava, flowing lava, gold ore, iron ore, coal ore, diamond ore, redstone ore; lapis lazuli ore still building up
11: dramatic drop in lava, flowing lava
13: peak lapis lazuli ore, starts dropping off right away
13: redstone ore drops off fast
14: diamond ore drops off fast
16: last of the diamond ore
16: last of the redstone ore
30: gold ore drops off fast
31: last of the lapis lazuli ore
32: last of the gold ore
40: coal ore starts dropping off
42: iron ore starts dropping off
55: coal ore drops off faster
57: iron ore drops off faster
64: last of the iron ore
75: last of the flowing lava
80: last of the lava
118: last of the coal ore

Note that the chart is logarithmic in scale, so going up two lines means ten times as many blocks.

* I had 8 gold and 40 iron and a 128 coal and some redstone and lapis and a fresh diamond pickaxe (used three times!) and brand new iron armour and more flint and gravel and cobblestone than I could shake a stick at and DAMN LAVA BURNED IT ALL UP.
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Mr. Analog

#1
April 09, 2012, 04:56:15 PM
Yeah, where lava is concerned if I have something valuable I make sure it's out of harms way.

(that said, I plummeted to my death losing 2 diamond picks with ~lvl 7 Unbreaking II on them and all my armor (I found cheap to make stuff like bread and bricks though wheeeee)

Note to self: sleep closer to where I work, especially if it's likely to kill me
By Grabthar's Hammer

Lazybones

#2
April 09, 2012, 05:00:50 PM
I make a safe shaft down then a safe area for storage.

Digg away from the shaft, dig back, disposit repeat.

Make a Tripp with all the stuff back home...

However I still loose stuff when exploring or building away from home.

Bring a bucke of water, unless you fall into
Lava it sure can put you out fast if you touch some.

Thorin

#3
April 09, 2012, 05:14:05 PM
Hah, I lost all my stuff once because the bed didn't work and I respawned about 800 blocks away, that sucked.  An' yeah, I fell directly down into the lava.  I should have poured the water (that I had in my hot bar!) before digging, then I would've landed on obsidian or rock.

Lazy, your misspellings from auto-correct are funny - "Digg", "Tripp", "loose".

Anyway, the point of this thread was to point out the best places to look for the various minerals (like don't expect diamond or redstone above 14, if you find it there it's a wonder).
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Lazybones

#4
April 09, 2012, 05:23:25 PM
I just haven't experienced as much equipment loss from mining as it seems some people are.

It's all good info. I already knew the diamonds where between 0-15 but that still doesn't make them easy to find...

I am still trying to find a time and pick efficient mining method. I think I need to get enchanting. 

Thorin

#5
April 09, 2012, 05:28:33 PM
Yeah, haven't done the enchanting myself yet, either.  It apparently adds quite a bit of uses to the tools.
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Melbosa

#6
April 10, 2012, 08:07:10 AM
It is just too bad that the enchanting isn't in English.  Kinda gamble on your enchanting.
Sometimes I Think Before I Type... Sometimes!

Thorin

#7
April 10, 2012, 08:17:21 AM
Apparently the enchantment names are written in glyphics from the Commander Keen games so you can translate the words, but the words are picked randomly from a pool of words and never saved.  The whole idea being that you have to gamble on enchantments.

Anyway, on the topic of statistical analysis of where to find what, I've noticed that many of the veins of ore I've found have been kind of clustered together.  Like, if I find diamonds I'll be finding redstone nearby, or if there's lapis lazuli, I should really look for gold.  Although that's just my experience.
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Melbosa

#8
April 10, 2012, 08:23:10 AM
For me Gold is usually found near lava in cavern exploration and always find coal and iron near each other again while cavern exploring.  Diamonds... well I just stick to the 5-10 strip mining to get those...  and normally that is where most of my red and lapis come from.
Sometimes I Think Before I Type... Sometimes!

Mr. Analog

#9
April 10, 2012, 08:28:49 AM
There are also vein directions to be aware of, iron ore is usually diagonal so it always pays to dig 1 block around found iron blocks, gold tends to be vertical.

I've found diamond in clumps as small as one block and as big as 8 and usually there is a progression of redstone and coal around. I know if I see redstone and coal together diamond isn't far behind.

Then again my method of mining at that depth (roughly lvl 5 - 10) doesn't miss much, each shaft will see new blocks on all sides without missing neighbouring blocks (at least on the same plane).
By Grabthar's Hammer

Melbosa

#10
April 10, 2012, 08:32:28 AM
Yep Mr. A's technique is definitely more efficient than strip mining.  So if you are looking for minerals, definitely take a look at his mines.

Me well I like the stone to pile up so I can use it when I need it, so I don't mind the strip mining. And with the spawns, well that is just free XP :P
Sometimes I Think Before I Type... Sometimes!

Thorin

#11
April 10, 2012, 10:19:41 AM
I was doing the efficient mining technique and not getting anywhere.  Then in a fit of frustration I burnt through half a diamond pickaxe strip-mining, and found 8 diamond and 20 gold and a metric @%&#-ton of coal all in clusters.

Then I realized this morning that my "efficient" mining was missing 4 out of every 12 blocks.  Here was my cross-section (the black dots are where I mined, the green blocks are where I could find ore, the red Xes are where I missed possible ore):














X▒XX▒XX▒X
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
X▒XX▒XX▒X
X▒XX▒XX▒X
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
X▒XX▒XX▒X
X▒XX▒XX▒X
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
▒.▒▒.▒▒.▒
X▒XX▒XX▒X

Here's what I'm going to do instead:


X▒X
▒.▒
▒.▒
X▒▒
X▒.▒
X▒.▒
X▒▒
XX▒.▒
XX▒.▒
X▒X
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Mr. Analog

#12
April 10, 2012, 10:28:07 AM
I don't understand the diagram is this top down view or side view?
By Grabthar's Hammer

Lazybones

#13
April 10, 2012, 10:53:09 AM
Well this is what I assume they mean and it looks like a side view of the tunnels stacked.
Since I light all my tunnels to avoid mobs bugging me I was doing the following.
It ensures you are seeing the face of each block passed at least on its side or top or bottom but uses lots of torches since your shafts are only 1 wide, also takes lots of back and forth.
▒ Dirt
D Dug

Code Select

▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D▒
▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D▒
D▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D
D▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D
▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D▒
▒▒D▒▒D▒▒D▒


I plan on switching to the following, to use less torches, it is also easy to clear 2x2 in front of you without moving much and it will use half the torches
Code Select

DD▒▒DD▒▒DD
DD▒▒DD▒▒DD
▒▒DD▒▒DD▒▒
▒▒DD▒▒DD▒▒
DD▒▒DD▒▒DD
DD▒▒DD▒▒DD

Thorin

#14
April 10, 2012, 11:28:04 AM
Yeah, it was a cross-sectional.  I was trying to use tables, but then accidentally hit the Post button and tables take way too much code anyway.

I was going up four levels at a time, since you "see" the block underneath and above you and so it's a waste of good diamond pickaxes to mine that close together.  I'm switching to every two levels, dig two wide, leave four in between:


32:x▒▒xxxx▒▒xxxx▒▒xxxx▒▒x
31:▒dd▒xx▒dd▒xx▒dd▒xx▒dd▒
30:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
29:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
28:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
27:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
26:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
25:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
24:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
23:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
22:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
21:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
20:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
19:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
18:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
17:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
16:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
15:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
14:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
13:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
12:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
11:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
10:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
09:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
08:x▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒x
07:▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒▒▒▒dd▒
06:▒dd▒xx▒dd▒xx▒dd▒xx▒dd▒
05:x▒▒xxxx▒▒xxxx▒▒xxxx▒▒x

As you can see there, a lot less red "x"s; green "d"s are where I'm digging, blue blocks are ones that I can see to determine if they have ores.  It's okay to put torches every 10 blocks, right?  And encountering lava is going to change this plan, obviously :P
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Tom

#15
April 10, 2012, 11:56:03 AM
There's a specific type of mining I used to do, It's hard to draw since a single "level" will have three actual levels, and every second horizontal tunnel is actually three separate tunnels (one going straight, one stepping two blocks above, and one going two blocks below). For the levels above and below, they are shifted over one, so you end up seeing nearly every block, while not doing too much mining.
<Zapata Prime> I smell Stanley... And he smells good!!!

Mr. Analog

#16
April 10, 2012, 01:18:31 PM
Y'know, at that point you might as well just strip mine like Melbosa does... have fun fighting mobs too heh

Also as a side note, digging two block high narrow tunnels takes no time at all and you cover a lot of ground fast, you can just rock the mouse up and down if you have a diamond pick enchanted with Efficiency and Unbreaking (just sayin')
By Grabthar's Hammer

Tom

#17
April 10, 2012, 01:23:27 PM
The nice thing about the method I used was you only dig out 1/3 or so of the blocks, yet can see nearly every single block. without doubles.
<Zapata Prime> I smell Stanley... And he smells good!!!

Thorin

#18
April 10, 2012, 02:10:54 PM
I did the math, one-wide-two-high tunnels with three blocks in between actually requires less pickaxing than two-wide-two-high tunnels with four blocks in between, and gives better coverage to boot.

one-wide-two-high, three blocks between: 1 block mined every 3, times 2 for height, 2 blocks out of 6.
two-wide-two-high, four blocks between: 2 blocks mined every 6, times 2 for height, 4 blocks every 12.

Seems the same, right?  But there's less dead space (compare to previous post if you want):


32:x▒xxx▒xxx▒xxx▒x
31:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
30:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
29:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
28:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
27:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
26:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
25:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
24:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
23:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
22:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
21:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
20:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
19:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
18:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
17:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
16:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
15:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
14:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
13:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
12:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
11:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
10:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
09:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
08:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
07:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
06:▒d▒x▒d▒x▒d▒x▒d▒
05:x▒xxx▒xxx▒xxx▒x

Not a huge savings, but some, and as Mr. A says it's pretty simple to dig one-wide-two-high.

So, how long do you make your tunnels?

I plan on going at least 100 blocks in, then mine 3 blocks over, then come 100 blocks back (that way I'm mining on the way back, too).
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Mr. Analog

#19
April 10, 2012, 02:50:18 PM
Each shaft is usually 80 to 100 metres long

I usually dig a long trunk hallway first running either East/West or North/South then I start marking the branch hallways by placing a torch evenly every 4 blocks. When I hit the end of a branch I will start the adjacent tunnel digging my way back to the trunk. I always backtrack a branch to start a new dig back to the trunk (in case I missed something).

If I hit a hazard I place cobblestone at the end of the branch where I hit trouble and mark it with a torch. If you're ever in my mine and hit a cobblestone dead end with a torch on it (instead of the wall) there's likely lava on the other side.

The main thing with my technique is speed over thoroughness, I can burn through a lot of area in a short amount of time, in fact yesterday I was able to nearly double my existing mine in just a few hours:

http://mc.tomasu.org/#/35/64/152/-1/0/1

I found a significant amount of resources (partly thanks to my new texture pack which makes spotting things a little easier for me)
By Grabthar's Hammer

Thorin

#20
April 10, 2012, 03:11:07 PM
What do you do when you hit natural caverns?  I seem to keep coming out on these caverns that are thirty or forty meters high to the ceiling, always with resources tantalizingly out of reach.
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Tom

#21
April 10, 2012, 03:15:03 PM
Quote from: Thorin on April 10, 2012, 03:11:07 PM
What do you do when you hit natural caverns?  I seem to keep coming out on these caverns that are thirty or forty meters high to the ceiling, always with resources tantalizingly out of reach.
I just climb up and get them at some point. always manage to find a lot of iron up there. The shift key is used quite a bit, as well as a bunch of cobble for walking my way out to it.
<Zapata Prime> I smell Stanley... And he smells good!!!

Mr. Analog

#22
April 10, 2012, 03:16:43 PM
Quote from: Thorin on April 10, 2012, 03:11:07 PM
What do you do when you hit natural caverns?  I seem to keep coming out on these caverns that are thirty or forty meters high to the ceiling, always with resources tantalizingly out of reach.

Between level 5 - 10 it doesn't happen very often, when it does, I just brick up the roof and keep on digging.

Caves are great, but they slow me down (and are populated by mobs usually, which eats into mining time).

This also explains why I'm usually low on coal. Coal is very abundant in caves (as is iron).
By Grabthar's Hammer

Thorin

#23
April 10, 2012, 03:18:57 PM
Good gravy man, I'm LOADED FOR BEAR with coal at the moment.

Also, I built some fences for US Rail - a chest full, so 27 stacks of 64, or 1,728 fences.  And it only took one visit to _half_ my Arboury.
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Mr. Analog

#24
April 10, 2012, 03:27:29 PM
Yeah, early on I made all the rails and a @%&#-ton of smooth stone (for building little things here and there)

On the plus side I build a lot of cool stuff (with enough left over for a ridiculous tower)
By Grabthar's Hammer

Darren Dirt

#25
April 10, 2012, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Thorin on April 10, 2012, 02:10:54 PM

32:x▒xxx▒xxx▒xxx▒x
31:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
30:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
29:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
28:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
27:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
26:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
25:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
24:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
23:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
22:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
21:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
20:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
19:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
18:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
17:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
16:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
15:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
14:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
13:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
12:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
11:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
10:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
09:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
08:x▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒x
07:▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒▒▒d▒
06:▒d▒x▒d▒x▒d▒x▒d▒
05:x▒xxx▒xxx▒xxx▒x


Geez I sure hope there is some handy-dandy tool out there that converts a color-filled grid into the forum syntax (!)

_____________________

Strive for progress. Not perfection.
_____________________

Thorin

#26
April 10, 2012, 09:14:45 PM
Well .... Notepad, with judicious use of search and replace?
Prayin' for a 20!

gcc thorin.c -pedantic -o Thorin
compile successful

Lazybones

#27
April 10, 2012, 09:38:21 PM
Single rows sure use a lot more torches.

I suppose you could reclaim them and wall off sections
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