Possible Hockey Lockout

[Thorin]

So there's been some rumblings about a possible hockey lockout this season.  If the NHL and the NHLPA (Players Association) can't come to an agreement for a new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) by September 15th, the doors will be shut and no hockey will be played (or so says the NHL).

That's 26 days away.

Both sides are still dragging their feet and waiting for the other side to blink first.

[Mr. Analog]

AHL works for me, they hurt themselves when they don't play.

Well and probably Molson/LaBatt's bottom lines.

[Thorin]

5 days away now, and they're not even formally meeting.

So...  The Stanley Cup was not originally given to or owned by the NHL; in fact the NHL didn't exist in the 1890s when Governor General Lord Stanley donated it to the Dominion of Canada to foster the growth of the sport.  (wikipedia tells me that) In 1947 the Stanley Cup trustees came to an agreement with the NHL giving it basically full control over the trophy.  Well, during the last lockout a couple of rec players decided to challenge the NHL's control, since the Cup was given to Canada, not Bettman's NHL, and since it was intended to be competed for every year.

The Wayback Machine has a TSN article about this: http://web.archive.org/web/20071216083200/http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=153935&hubname=.  Here's the interesting bit:

A new clause will be included by the NHL in a revised agreement this year with the cup's trustees - Ian (Scotty) Morrison, former head of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and former NHL official Brian O'Neill - allowing them to award the trophy to someone else if the NHL isn't using it.

Reached at his Montreal home, O'Neill said he would have felt ''obliged'' to at least consider finding a home for the cup last year after the NHL season was cancelled - had he been allowed to. The trustees' existing deal with the league, reached in 2000, didn't allow him or Morrison to consider that option.

But O'Neill also said he would have to be convinced any potential recipients performed at a ''very high standard'' worthy of a cup that hockey players past and present consider the sport's ultimate prize.

''We wouldn't want to demean the Stanley Cup by presenting it to anyone we didn't consider to be the best,'' he said.

So if we suffer another full-season lockout, there is now a precedence for having teams from lower levels of hockey compete for the ultimate prize.

By the way, did you know that Kenora, at the time a town of 4,000, has won the cup?  That was back in 1907, and it was just a bunch of farmers that got together to play as a team.

[Thorin]

The lockout is less than 71 hours away, if they go through with their plan of locking out the players on September 15th at 11:59pm.

Meanwhile, the Katz Group has asked for the city to kick in more money into the arena deal or else the "iconic arena" can't be built (but a less "iconic" one still could): http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/09/12/edmonton-arena-more-public-funding.html

Of course, anyone who thought this through knew that there'd be cost overruns and/or requests for more public money.

There is the implied threat that if a newer, bigger arena isn't built in Edmonton then the Oilers might get moved to another city, although there's also rumours of a clause in the EIG-to-Katz sales contract that stipulates the team may not be moved or perhaps that moving it would dissolve the sales contract.

So perhaps we'll continue on with our "ancient" rink that is still newer than most rinks in Edmonton, which the Oilers currently lease for the grand price of a dollar a year.  An hour of ice time there for anyone not called the Oilers costs five hundred dollars, or five hundred times what the Oilers pay for it all year.  But yeah, it's not good enough, so the city has to come up with hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new stadium for the millionaires and billionaires to run their lucrative business in.

I say make 'em play out of Tipton, Michael Cameron, and if we're feeling generous, Castledowns B.

[Mr. Analog]

If there is a lockout I honestly don't see why we can't just take this year and reno Northlands, personally I see no reason to build another Arena (other than to line the pockets of developers and raise ticket prices).

As for a lockout I think the deadline will be extended. I saw a good comment the other day that basically said if there's nothing financial tied to the deadline neither the League nor the NHLPA will action on it, they'll push it off again. What they need to be careful of is alienating fans.

[Tom]

I heard someone say that there's some kind of new rule which makes the Colosseum way too small for the NHL, and that a new larger venue had to be built or we could lose the franchise.

I don't get why a billionaire would have trouble coming up with a few hundred million dollars. What's $85m to a billionaire? Nothing. It's pocket change. He could pull that out of a rainy day fund.

[Mr. Analog]

The only rules governing arenas that I'm aware of are regarding the play area, dimensions, marking and netting. Nothing about capacity, that's more to do with profitability than anything else.

[Thorin]

The reason given for building a new arena instead of renoing the old one is that it will cost a couple hundred million to add seats in such a way that the arena won't collapse.  And that's the root reason for wanting a new / different building - they want more seats and especially more skyboxes.

I think the proposed arena would have indeed been wonderful, but the pricetag attached to it is pretty high and Katz is trying really hard to not have to pay for it himself.  And I'd rather see a hundred million go into renoing all the football fields, baseball fields, soccer fields, and old rinks around town, then another two hundred million go into extending and improving the LRT, than I would like to see that money go into a building where millionaires play a game for a billionaire.

Yeah, the lockout's gonna happen because no one has any skin in the game yet.  I agree that the fans need to spank the NHL, instead of returning in record numbers like they did after the last lockout.

[Thorin]

No, there's no rule about minimum seating capacity for an NHL team to play in a rink, otherwise they'd never be able to have those European start-of-the-season games.  An NHL game can be played on any properly measured and marked ice surface, including the neighbourhood outdoor rink (yes, really, but that'll never happen).  In fact, the rules don't even cover where or how the players' benches and the off-ice officials seating should be arranged.  This is why all these different arenas all have such different layouts for their benches and penalty boxes and why in some places the goal judges basically sit in the stands.

Mr. A's spot on - the number of seats and skyboxes desired are purely profit-driven.  There might also be some ego involved, with Katz wanting to show that he has the best team and the best venue, who knows.

Yes, a billionaire has a ton of money they can access.  But remember that they have that ton of money by getting others to chip in their for projects the billionaire profits on.  So he wants the city to pour in the money so that he can later reap a profit.

[Mr. Analog]

Yeah, I'm pretty bitter about this whole thing and I have little sympathy for either side of this problem.

They lockout it's gonna be their problem not mine.

[Tom]

No, there's no rule about minimum seating capacity for an NHL team to play in a rink, otherwise they'd never be able to have those European start-of-the-season games.  An NHL game can be played on any properly measured and marked ice surface, including the neighbourhood outdoor rink (yes, really, but that'll never happen).  In fact, the rules don't even cover where or how the players' benches and the off-ice officials seating should be arranged.  This is why all these different arenas all have such different layouts for their benches and penalty boxes and why in some places the goal judges basically sit in the stands.

Mr. A's spot on - the number of seats and skyboxes desired are purely profit-driven.  There might also be some ego involved, with Katz wanting to show that he has the best team and the best venue, who knows.

Yes, a billionaire has a ton of money they can access.  But remember that they have that ton of money by getting others to chip in their for projects the billionaire profits on.  So he wants the city to pour in the money so that he can later reap a profit.

Yes, I realize he's being a complete greedy douche-bag. Which is why I'm against any public money going into it. Maybe if he was putting more money in, or if we got a fair revenue share. If we put most of the money in, we should get most of the revenue, even from oiler games. Or maybe he can pay much higher rent.

[Thorin]

Well, the Oilers rent would go from the current $1 to a proposed $5,000,000 or even $7,000,000...  But basically Katz Group is trying to get the city to pay to build the building, then Katz Group will act as the landlords and collect and keep all the monies (game tickets, food sold, parking, concert tickets) and agree to do the upkeep.  That last one, though, they don't own the building, so inherently there are going to be things they look at and say, "Why would we spend money fixing that on a building we don't own?"

[Thorin]

Yeah, I'm pretty bitter about this whole thing and I have little sympathy for either side of this problem.

They lockout it's gonna be their problem not mine.

Like I said in another thread, there's lots of other hockey to watch, and if the NHL isn't playing they'll be televising the lower levels - I remember the Roadrunners were televised quite a bit, plus tickets to the Roadrunners were $30 instead of $150+ for the lower bowl.  Hell, Oil Kings is $20 for the lower bowl, and those boys are flyin' out there!

[Melbosa]

While I can appreciate seeing the youngsters in the other leagues and love the game (oil kings are a blast to watch live!!!), I will still be sad to see another NHL season gone due to $$$ vs $$$.  And I could have seen my Jets live this year too!

[Mr. Analog]

While I can appreciate seeing the youngsters in the other leagues and love the game (oil kings are a blast to watch live!!!), I will still be sad to see another NHL season gone due to $$$ vs $$$.  And I could have seen my Jets live this year too!

Yeah, that's got to sting.

Likewise I was really hoping to see the Oil start to come together this season, after 3 disappointing seasons I really want to see some development, but if that doesn't happen this year... old players get older and new players don't learn anything.