Why HD-DVD and Blu-ray are dead on arrival.

[Shayne]

Its actually sorta humorous you bring that up Druid, my first DVD player was my Xbox.

I have been saying it though for a while, the PS3 and Blu-Ray was super smart on Sony's behalf, they can sell the Blu-Ray "idea" and "saturation" by pointing out historical data of the PS2 and say that the PS3 will equal or better those massive numbers (true or not).  The Microsoft HD-DVD player isn't a bad idea though for those of us with an Xbox 360 (6 million) its a very affordable and attractive way to get into "HD movie generation" compared to the alternatives (standalone, PS3).

IN the end, the losers will most definitely be the consumers if the 2 formats can't play together.  A duel format player is obviously the way to go, but between licensing the Toshiba format and Sony format I could only imagine the costs of these machine.  Currently they already have some serious power in them and while the price they sell them at is absurd, cost to make them isn't cheep (compared to the DVD standard).  Makes you wonder though, would Toshiba or Sony license their tech if they knew it was going into a  duel player?

[Tom]

I had thought I saw some stories on Engadget about Dual format players, but I haven't been able to find them again.

[Shayne]

Just got it today.

It comes with King Kong on HD-DVD and I happen to own King Kong on DVD, so I am rather eager to get them stopped on similar frames and see if can notice much of a difference.

Early Xmas gift from the woman

[Ustauk]

Just got it today.

It comes with King Kong on HD-DVD and I happen to own King Kong on DVD, so I am rather eager to get them stopped on similar frames and see if can notice much of a difference.

Early Xmas gift from the woman

Congrats.  Does she get a staff discount on hardware?

[Shayne]

She no longer works for Rogers, I grabbed it at EB

[TheDruid]

Wow, its larger then i though it would be... well taller

I sugested to my wife today that we should get one. She told me to wait untill after Christmass.

[Ustauk]

She no longer works for Rogers, I grabbed it at EB

Gotcha.  I wish her good luck in her new job, then.

[Shayne]

If we can have 3 successful game consoles in the wild each with proprietary discs and games, why can't we have 2 movie players?

[Mr. Analog]

If we can have 3 successful game consoles in the wild each with proprietary discs and games, why can't we have 2 movie players?

Three Reasons:

1. People are used to buying a game console every 5 years or so and from the get go there were always incompatible alternatives. Video players didn't become popular until the late 70s early 80s and most people got used to the idea that there is only "one format" (and all others are "inferior") and since most people ignored Laserdisc and set-top DivX they saw DVD as a graduated version of VHS. Most folks have only had a DVD player in their house for 5 years and the industry is trying to sell them "yet another" video format. The vibe I get from this is "too soon".

2. Media content, I mean when you bought NHL '95 it was a great game, playing it today would seem lessened by the most up to date version of NHL which is only compatible with new consoles. If I bought Indiana Jones back in '84 on VHS I would have noticed in the late 90s that the quality was starting to go and that there was a new format which promises not to decay over time. So, now that you have a "good" version of your movie do you need another new version only 5-6 years after you bought the DVD? Nothing significant has changed with the actual content, would there be any point to buying a new version of Indy if it has no additional intrinsic value.

3. Betting on the slow horse. Nobody wants to be stuck with the loser format, and the way that the two major competitors have been posturing it gives the average consumer the impression that it's Blu-Ray vs HD DVD. The solution for this so far seems to be offering a player that will play DVD, Blu-Ray and HD DVD but I can't see this catching on mostly because of all the technology licensing that would have to go into a single unit. I think most manufacterors will just bet on one format for the win and make exslusivly that.

IMHO. Give DVD 5 more years before attempting a new format, and when it's done it better be just one format to rule them all.

I guess as an aside I think the other factor to consider with the token ressistance that certainly I feel is that Blu-Ray / HD-DVD is not a market driven innovation.

• Super 8: People wanted to make home movies.
• Beta / VHS: People wanted to make home movies cheaper and record stuff off of TV..
• DVD: People wanted a format that didn't require rewinding and would have greater longevity than VHS.
• Blu-Ray / HD-DVD provides greater amount of storage in a form factor compatible with existing DVD purportedly to store High Definition content. HDTV was lobbied for by the FCC and is being mandated by the United States Government as a forced upgrade for television signal supposodly to reopen bandwidth on the cable signal for Emergency purposes (though the tin-foil hats out there think it might have something to do with enforcing DRM and content management in a centralised way).

So far as I can tell, HD really only offers better picture quality for content developed in HD. So I'm sure the video for Underworld Evolution looks great in HD however Citizen Kane won't look any better than it already does on DVD. Were people screaming out 6 years ago for higher bandwidth video content, are they screaming out for it now, will it change when the average home TV is 62" 16:9 or bigger?

AS ALWAYS prove me wrong children, prove me wrong.

[Darren Dirt]

I stopped screaming years ago, when the voices told me to stop.

PS: prove yourself wrong, whydontcha!? Huh?

[Mr. Analog]

I stopped screaming years ago, when the voices told me to stop.

PS: prove yourself wrong, whydontcha!? Huh?

I can't, they're out to get me!

[Shayne]

1. People are used to buying a game console every 5 years or so and from the get go there were always incompatible alternatives. Video players didn't become popular until the late 70s early 80s and most people got used to the idea that there is only "one format" (and all others are "inferior") and since most people ignored Laserdisc and set-top DivX they saw DVD as a graduated version of VHS. Most folks have only had a DVD player in their house for 5 years and the industry is trying to sell them "yet another" video format. The vibe I get from this is "too soon".

Perhaps the perception needs to change.  While I think it would suck to need two players (a dual format has been talked about but not actually released) it really comes down to market place saturation if we will ever get another true "format to rule them all", even then it would have to come from some sort of open standard as no company wants another company to come up with the next big thing and then pay royalties on it.  As for too soon, I totally disagree, swing by my place and check out an HD movie.

2. Media content, I mean when you bought NHL '95 it was a great game, playing it today would seem lessened by the most up to date version of NHL which is only compatible with new consoles. If I bought Indiana Jones back in '84 on VHS I would have noticed in the late 90s that the quality was starting to go and that there was a new format which promises not to decay over time. So, now that you have a "good" version of your movie do you need another new version only 5-6 years after you bought the DVD? Nothing significant has changed with the actual content, would there be any point to buying a new version of Indy if it has no additional intrinsic value.

I cant agree with this.  How many versions of Star Wars, LotR, etc do we have and yet its on the SAME format none the less.?  To introduce a next generation format and re-release titles is inevitable be it now or be it in 5 years.  A chance to get a few more bucks.  The great thing about HD-DVD players is that they can still play your old normal dvds and in many cases upscale them and through software increase the quality a little bit.  VHS doesn't really have this ability (unless you get one of those combo jobbies but in that case they are normally a pretty generic version of both machines (i have one, and its crap)).

3. Betting on the slow horse. Nobody wants to be stuck with the loser format, and the way that the two major competitors have been posturing it gives the average consumer the impression that it's Blu-Ray vs HD DVD. The solution for this so far seems to be offering a player that will play DVD, Blu-Ray and HD DVD but I can't see this catching on mostly because of all the technology licensing that would have to go into a single unit. I think most manufacturers will just bet on one format for the win and make exclusively that.

Time Warner didnt bother to make a decision and simply releases titles on both formats.  I would wager that come this time next year, when places like Rogers and Blockbuster start brining in titles and actual numbers in terms of volume of rentals and purchases are shown, we will know which format will become the leader.

Many analysts like this guy http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback158.html have given some good indication that HD-DVD will win out based on Sony betting the farm on the PS3 and being unable to deliver the numbers.

IMHO. Give DVD 5 more years before attempting a new format, and when it's done it better be just one format to rule them all.

I guess as an aside I think the other factor to consider with the token ressistance that certainly I feel is that Blu-Ray / HD-DVD is not a market driven innovation.

• Super 8: People wanted to make home movies.
• Beta / VHS: People wanted to make home movies cheaper and record stuff off of TV..
• DVD: People wanted a format that didn't require rewinding and would have greater longevity than VHS.
• Blu-Ray / HD-DVD provides greater amount of storage in a form factor compatible with existing DVD purportedly to store High Definition content. HDTV was lobbied for by the FCC and is being mandated by the United States Government as a forced upgrade for television signal supposodly to reopen bandwidth on the cable signal for Emergency purposes (though the tin-foil hats out there think it might have something to do with enforcing DRM and content management in a centralised way).

So far as I can tell, HD really only offers better picture quality for content developed in HD. So I'm sure the video for Underworld Evolution looks great in HD however Citizen Kane won't look any better than it already does on DVD. Were people screaming out 6 years ago for higher bandwidth video content, are they screaming out for it now, will it change when the average home TV is 62" 16:9 or bigger?

AS ALWAYS prove me wrong children, prove me wrong.

Again I cant agree with this.  HD movies ARE market driven, lots of big screen HD TVs are being sold, and many not so big screen TVs that are still HD.  You can go into Costco right now and score a 32" Viewsonic HD LCD for $700.  HD Digital Cable, HD Satellite, HD is everywhere and it seems very very wrong that the pinnacle and crown jewel of visual entertainment (the movie industry) is lagging horribly behind.  Sure movies like Citizen Kane won't look any better but the technology for making these films has drastically changed.  Modern movies DO look MUCH better in HD so why watch them on a second rate DVD player when you can rent view them through Shaw PPV or Xbox Live in HD now.  Bring on the home format!

[Mr. Analog]

I guess market forces will decide in the end.

[Mags]

Don't forget that all of china is converting to EVD now too, so now there are 3 formats to deal with out there.

[Tom]

I doubt They'll export many EVD movies. Its a china specific format really.