I've had this interesting development happen.. My htpc sees a different youtube interface than my laptop, and I can't figure out why. Maybe it somehow got enroled in some youtube beta thing? Same browser (latest stable chrome), same distro, same everything. Except youtube is different.
I've actually hated the new-new youtube interface more than the last big change, due to it burrying the subscriptions link even further than it was before.
For example, see the first image attachment. That top bar is always on top, which is taking up a lot of valuable space since I have chrome there set to like 125% zoom or so. But that second part of the bar never had those two links in the middle till today. brand new thing. The guide sidebar is hidden by default and contains the only place the subscriptions link used to be, and is also always on top, and takes up the side white space area, which is totally pointless... Why hide the pane if its just going to be empty space anyhow?
For comparison, see the second image, thats what I get on my laptop.
It's all very weird. But having that subscriptions link right dead center really is nice. they actually listened to people complaining about it. only took them months. weird thing is, this change didn't seem to break anything, but their last change? EVERYTHING was broken. even for content providers, none of the independent vlogers and gamers seemed to get any ads on their videos. seemed monetization was broken for days.
Are these screen shots showing the difference?
You are scrolled down in one of them and in the other I think you have the guide collapsed.
- are you logged in with your ID in both
- is the guide open in both?
Quote from: Lazybones on September 05, 2013, 06:09:40 PM
Are these screen shots showing the difference?
The first screenshot shows what I get on my media box. The second shows what I get on my laptop.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 05, 2013, 06:09:40 PM
You are scrolled down in one of them and in the other I think you have the guide collapsed.
I'm scrolled down in both of them. the guide on my laptop does not collapse, and the one on my media box is by default collapsed, so I always have to show it to do anything with it.
Quote from: Lazybones on September 05, 2013, 06:09:40 PM
- are you logged in with your ID in both
- is the guide open in both?
Logged into the same account. And no, the guide is not open in the first one, because that's the default state.
The headers and guide bar are completely different between the two.
But the main change that prompted this was the new "My Subscriptions" link on the first one. That never used to be there. Had to show the guide, then scroll till I find the subscriptions link.
Try nuking your google domain cookies on both.
I don't know that I want to do that :-x
I just thought it was funny, and wanted to point out the new feature!
The moment I saw this thread title, and then your mention of subscriptions link being hard to find, I thought time to re-watch that hilarious 'Welcome to Youtube!' video again, and laugh ... then cry...
The thing that currently bugs me the most is the fact the "what to watch" link is so promenent and contains virtually nothing I want to watch whereas the subscriptions link (which has what I want to watch) is buried.
Also as a content creator you get other tools which are even MORE hidden.
Sometimes it's easier to find stats by logging out!
Yeah, the new changes seem to have been half thought out, and the what to watch algo is incomplete, probably more so than netflix's. And they keep rolling out changes that break @%&#. It's like they don't actually test stuff.
"Thinking" and "Interface" seem to be non-essential elements at Google nowadays...
new broken-ness just noticed today.
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=g2KsZHRrFpU
Notice the "beta" which was the "THREADED view" ... well it's GONE* now, wtf!?
Also the "All Comments" link used to be a simple URL that you could right-click-openInNewTab/Window. Now it's a freakin' JAVASCRIPT call (i.e. moar trackinz!) ... so my usual method of staying sane (i.e. "right-click the [All Comments] so I can skim them while watching the video cuz my ADHD brain can't stand to just do one thing at a time") is now GONE. Effin' Google, killing Youtube...
*all that is available is "Newest First" and "Top Comments", again WTF -- I virtually NEVER care what the "top" comments are, they are usually lame puns or weakass flame bait... I'd rather see what others said in RESPONSE to those "top" comments, it's fun to see exactly how chronologically the idiocy proceeded. But, GONE. ???
The new commenting format is a cluster@%&# of epic proportions, I know dozens of people who have been left clueless and/or are stuck with unwanted usernames.
Everything Google touches seems to turn to rust these days
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 07, 2013, 11:35:19 AM
The new commenting format is a cluster@%&# of epic proportions, I know dozens of people who have been left clueless and/or are stuck with unwanted usernames.
Everything Google touches seems to turn to rust these days
http://googlesystem.blogspot.ca/2013/11/youtube-tests-google-comments.html
Quote
Here are the new features:
* Smarter sorting: see more from people you know
* Meaningful conversations: new threaded format and +mentions encourage discussion.
* Comments appear from both YouTube and Google+.
wuh?Quote
"Comments you care about show first. You'll see comments at the top of the list from people in your Google+ Circles, from creators, and from popular personalities. Comments with many likes and replies will rank highly as well. Choose Newest First to see the most recent comments instead. Replies are threaded (like Gmail) so you can easily follow conversations. Google+ posts that link to videos or channels will also appear as comments on YouTube, marked 'via Google+'. You can report any comment for spam or abuse. If you're a creator, you can also use comment moderation tools for comments on your videos or your channels," informs Google.
^ okay, so maybe the "sort by thread" is no longer an option, but essentially a forced default?
Is this an uncharacteristic
improvement to the YT UI !? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_Chipmunk
If not, if it's not anything like the past and completely gone for good, then I guess "YouTube Comments Sorter" (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/106037) might become popular again?
Hard to believe They let us enjoy the "sort by thread" feature as-is (i.e. PERFECT) for nearly 3 years: http://googlesystem.blogspot.ca/2011/01/youtube-comment-threading.html
PS: at least if you HATE the new Google "grid" and actually miss the black bar, you can bring that back easily:
http://googlesystem.blogspot.ca/2013/11/a-google-parameter-brings-back-black-bar.html "just add ?noj=1 to the URL"
All I know is that 3 of my main social media feeds contain people confused/upset by the YouTube changes
Most of them want to opt out of google+ which this change flips you over to using if you aren't paying attention to what you're clicking.
I tell them to go to the Google support forums but that's where problems go to die it seems.
Getting sick of yer bull@%&# Google
fugly.
That's the word for it.
I visited the 1 minute promo/salespitch video that YT put out there -- nice retro soundtrack #wtf -- and visited the All Comments:
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=bVGp8Z8Yb28
Okay so I can see it IS threaded (and not just in the All Comments, but in the main page too; okay so that's good) ... but ... wait, WHAT!?
Quote
...Really? Why are we forced to have a Google + page? It's absolutely useful, and it's more difficult to manage our YouTube channel. Ok, YouTube is from Google, but this is not fair... I'm in YouTube, if I want a Google + page, i'll do it myself!
Reply ? 15
View all 10 replies
...
I think the people who actually care were using private domain email or dropbox/skydrive anyway. Even
So the whole POINT of using "All Comments" is still gone -- you can't skim through the ENTIRE conversation, once a post has [ 30? nope, 10? nope,
4? ] replies, those are all buried aka HIDDEN until you CLICK? R U EFFIN SERIOUS GOOGLE? Have you not learned from the SlashDot idiocy?
...I don't normally sign online petitions... but...
http://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-the-youtube-comment-section-back-to-its-original-form
Quote
Aaron Vollhoffer TRENTON, CANADA about 16 hours ago Liked 186
Stripping us of our anonymous profiles, forcing outside media and advertizements down our throats, censoring our comments and selectively giving commenters the ability to disable replies and ratings on their comments, among a host of unwarranted changes to the original, much more efficient and streamlined Youtube layout as a whole are just some of the many negative changes that are being made to Youtube. It's ethically wrong to force these changes unto an unwilling userbase as it alienates them while devaluing the quality of the site and tarnishing your credibility.
This callous behavior needs to stop.
is this real life?
I don't know why they would want to turn over the applecart like this either, it literally makes no sense
Meanwhile other serious problems with video playback / client / browser support go unfixed.
Quote
I'm not a big fan of comment systems like Gawker's Kinja or the upcoming YouTube refresh. The reason why is simple; once one thread gets promoted to the top, every comment written afterward - no matter how well-reasoned or astute - is bumped to the bottom and ignored unless it's a reply to one of the top-rated comments. Creates a kind of a "snooze, you lose" situation where you're forced to take your position at the head of the line if you want to start a discussion that receives any attention at all. At least sorting by latest post keeps things fresh instead of letting one or two people set the pace. 9/24/13 10:23pm
- "Train Dodger" in a Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/it-was-a-great-place-with-a-great-community-not-just-t-1378921919) discussion thread, which is part of the Gawker network... where they also too-easily HIDE most of a conversations until you click "show".
Maybe now's the time to install this extension... would result in an improved User Experience imo.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/herp-derp-for-youtube/ioomnmgjblnnolpdgdhebainmfbipjoh/details
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 07, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
I don't know why they would want to turn over the applecart like this either, it literally makes no sense
Meanwhile other serious problems with video playback / client / browser support go unfixed.
Yeah, yet another "nobody asked for this" feature-add aka random-justification ball-dropping by Google!
I mean you force this down everybody's throats, and yet you put out optional "can only add to the User Experience" stuff like "Active Sharing" (http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,5098.0.html) and then just let it disappear down The Memory Hole (http://www.youtube.com/activesharing_about)...
It's like The Big G doesn't give a crap anymore; is there something they know that we don't? (http://www.itwire.com/science-news/space/62186-asteroid-strike-on-earth-more-likely-than-thought) :o
I look at it this way too comments have been broken on YouTube for a long time but this charge makes everything worse
Like the changes to Gmail
Like the loss of Google labs...
Don't get used to Windows-based local extensions for Chrome!
http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/11/07/google-block-local-chrome-extensions-windows-starting-january-limit-installs-chrome-web-store/
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 11:51:14 AM
Okay so I can see it IS threaded (and not just in the All Comments, but in the main page too; okay so that's good) ...
Oops. Maybe not. Or maybe not
consistently anyway.
Both of these URLs, a very glaring absence of indenting, i.e. no obvious visible indication that "this comment is a reply to X"... and this is whether you choose "Top Comments" OR "Newest First".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VTM-LItMHI
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=7VTM-LItMHI
And yet you can plainly see that some of the comments ARE in reply to another comment:
Quote
Grenn14711 year ago
Why is the White House so dark?
Grenn14712 months agoin reply to daophos
Ahhh, plot lights. I see. Or, I almost see.
daophos2 months agoin reply to Grenn1471
Like the X Files. You seem serious when you're using dark.
Fail.
As a developer, I'm all like "how could you code it so it works sometimes but not other times?" I mean, it DOES still kinda work in the "heavy conversation" videos. Except when it doesn't. ???
What annoys me the most about the recent youtube changes is that it @%&#ing keeps asking me to switch to my G+ account. I've said NO about a billion times. Yes, I have it attached, as its the same email address, but I've told it time and time again that I want to keep using my original Youtube persona.
Also, that for some reason, my media box won't respect that "load in hd by default" setting. it /always/ starts in 480p and I hate it. Their player can really be a complete cluster-@%&#.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 11:51:14 AM
Okay so I can see it IS threaded (and not just in the All Comments, but in the main page too; okay so that's good) ...
Oops. Maybe not. Or maybe not consistently anyway.
Both of these URLs, a very glaring absence of indenting, i.e. no obvious visible indication that "this comment is a reply to X"... and this is whether you choose "Top Comments" OR "Newest First".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VTM-LItMHI
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=7VTM-LItMHI
And yet you can plainly see that some of the comments ARE in reply to another comment:
Quote
Grenn14711 year ago
Why is the White House so dark?
Grenn14712 months agoin reply to daophos
Ahhh, plot lights. I see. Or, I almost see.
daophos2 months agoin reply to Grenn1471
Like the X Files. You seem serious when you're using dark.
Fail.
As a developer, I'm all like "how could you code it so it works sometimes but not other times?" I mean, it DOES still kinda work in the "heavy conversation" videos. Except when it doesn't. ???
As youtube has been working on the commenting system they completely broke the threading. it's supposed to do it properly, but its been 100% broken for a week or two now.
I would have expected it to un-bork with the new roll-out, but hey, this is the new google, the one that doesn't care about rolling out completely broken code to production.
^ yeah except it's NOT "100%" broken, it's more like "unknown%" broken.
Because in the 1-minute-sales-pitch video I linked to above, there is visually-obvious indenting A-PLENTY. So the code works, just for some weird reason it isn't always called, or called correctly, or ??insertStupidReasonHere??... If there was no indenting anywhere, fine, the "threaded view" is messed up at the root, fix it and we're all a little less cranky. But nope, the Google Suits probably can point to certain videos and say "whatchatalkinbout? It works fine!" and will take many days or weeks before they acknowledge just how badly they shattered one of the remaining stable[-ish] legs on this table that we all have been happy to use for many years ... but are being driven by situations like this to maybe re-consider the possibility of giving YT the "Myspace" treatment -- there's always something out there that is cleaner and more attractive to casual participants. YT is really pushing their luck...
The thing I personally do ALL THE TIME for Youtube is I find a funny/interesting comment, and I would like to see what was said in response to it. Now I literally have to do a text search in my web browser for that poster's name, and hope I can see a handful of entertaining replies to it -- unless the video is one of The Privileged Few that has the threaded view actually working. ::)
MY hunch is that older comments are perma-broken. From the past couple weeks where they were rolling out new, and untested code that was part of the new commenting system.. The NEW commenting system should hopefully not be broken. but this is the new google we're talking about. they are not afraid of releasing broken code on youtube. in fact they seem to prefer doing so.
Quote from: Tom on November 07, 2013, 02:12:09 PM
MY hunch is that older comments are perma-broken. From the past couple weeks where they were rolling out new, and untested code that was part of the new commenting system.. The NEW commenting system should hopefully not be broken. but this is the new google we're talking about. they are not afraid of releasing broken code on youtube. in fact they seem to prefer doing so.
Yeah I suspect that too. My guess is some new metadata is stored for any "new" comments, and the code is STUPID -- it says "if that new metadata is found then do threading functionality and G+ crap and whatever else, else FAIL LIKE A FAILING FAIL OF A FAIL". Instead of being smartly backward-compatible, or AT LEAST doing a database update of all of the old comments to contain that new metadata... I mean seriously, the old beta "threaded view" worked fine with old comments, so why not use that old code to do a mass update of comments to the new back-end format? #ezSolution
There's another mobile client app update coming, I suspect they are trying to fix it
I rarely use the mobile client. It's pretty sucky to use. the web app has still gotten worse, but they sorta fixed some of the problems they introduced with the attempt to bump "my subscriptions" down and prioritize the "what to watch" crap. They moved the subscriptions link back up to the main section. So its not too bad.
From an announcement over at Feedly, it sounds like Google is dropping its Open OAuth support in favor of its own native Google+ account authentication.
Ahh it all comes together now, okay.
Man, a lot of places use the OAuth support. That really sucks, now you absolutely have to tie those sites to your G+ account. Ick.
They are being super heavy handed with G+.
Trust me I'm looking for alternatives for e-mail/video already
This aggression will not like, uhh, stand man
So, I've been working on my email server lately. The original plan was to host it on Digital Ocean, but I don't know if that's a viable option re: NSA bull crap. I have a new dedicated server leased here in canada which is /slightly/ better than in the us that I'm thinking I might move it to.
Anyone who is interested in an account, let me know. It doesn't (yet) encrypt stored mail, but it doesn't support http access to the web mail, or plain text SMTP/IMAP/POP3 for user's use. And it strongly prefers TLS for incoming SMTP.
Sadly there is no option for video as the stuff on youtube that I watch just isn't put anywhere else.
I wouldn't worry about which e-mail provider you pick, e-mail is unencrypted over the wire, so... everyone can read your e-mail
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 08, 2013, 01:29:57 PM
I wouldn't worry about which e-mail provider you pick, e-mail is unencrypted over the wire, so... everyone can read your e-mail
That's not quite true. Some providers support TLS+SMTP or SSMTP, and prefer that over plain text SMTP. GMail is one of them. It will attempt to use TLS before sending email, and my smtp server accepts TLS+SMTP so any mail sent from gmail will arrive encrypted, and the only way to fetch mail from my server is via TLS encrypted POP3 or IMAP.
Hopefully more providers start supporting TLS encrypted SMTP, or that new darkmail protocol.
Sending yes, receiving no, so if someone replies without encryption the chain is broken
I recall reading an old "netiquette" guide that said to treat e-mail like a postcard, it's a very apt comparison IMO
This is what I'm saying though, you can get encrypted end-to-end mail, but not all smtp servers support receiving/sending mail with TLS. They should, its not hard to enable. And I'm hoping more systems start doing such things.
Again, Gmail (and probably other services) will send mail with TLS if it can, and my server will understand that and receive it. Then on the client side my server ONLY supports TLS+IMAP/TLS+POP3. It is still unencrypted on disk, but that's something I've been thinking about for a while. It's not easy to do in an automatic way. But yes, via gmail to my server, or vice-versa, it can and will be encrypted over the network both ways.
I'm really hoping more servers start to enable encrypted SMTP.
My point though is that if you are worried about snooping e-mail isn't your best choice for communication anyway, so why worry?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 08, 2013, 02:14:37 PM
My point though is that if you are worried about snooping e-mail isn't your best choice for communication anyway, so why worry?
To make it that much harder for them. throw a wrench in the works as it were.
And at some point we'll get end-to-end encryption.
I look at it this way, treat all communication as compromised by default. And not just for apps like e-mail but anything requiring trust (like secure service calls, HTTPS)
People say I'm paranoid, they're just jealous of my tin foil outfit
Sure, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on sticking it to the man. They want to do shady things, we should make it as hard as possible to do it.
-_-; if you want to make getting your information hard to get you need to start by making your information hard to get. i.e. don't rely on things that can be easily foiled like e-mail. (sorry talk about OAuth this morning made me look up this and it's been on my mind: http://insanecoding.blogspot.ca/2013/03/oauth-great-way-to-cripple-your-api.html I'm going to try to write an extension for tumblr this weekend and it requires a registered OAuth key)
Also, what's up today? Awfully grumpy sounding posts...
???
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 08, 2013, 02:44:26 PM
-_-; if you want to make getting your information hard to get you need to start by making your information hard to get. i.e. don't rely on things that can be easily foiled like e-mail. (sorry talk about OAuth this morning made me look up this and it's been on my mind: http://insanecoding.blogspot.ca/2013/03/oauth-great-way-to-cripple-your-api.html I'm going to try to write an extension for tumblr this weekend and it requires a registered OAuth key)
OAuth is a bit of a pain. Apparently google is deprecating its OAuth api soon. going to make people use the G+ auth.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 08, 2013, 02:44:26 PM
Also, what's up today? Awfully grumpy sounding posts...
???
The whole spying mess and harper in general really bug me. Also I feel a bit crappy. Anxiety ramped up the past few days for little or no reason, super tired yesterday, almost couldn't get to sleep last night, I'm glad I've learned some relaxation techniques, back in the day, I'd have either stayed up cause I knew it'd have been futile, or I'd have laid in bed for /hours/.
Oh also, my job consists of a lot of javascript and php these days. not exactly my favourite thing in the world.
But yeah, I'm not saying we should rely on email. Just that we shouldn't make it easy for them in any way what so ever, even with email. giant middle finger essentially. a form of peaceful protest if you will.
OAuth is so broken that the key designer has said ' remove my name from it'
http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-hell/
so in case the CHANGE.ORG "petitions" don't do anything, here's a very youtube-y way of voicing your unhappines...
Quote
☻/ This is Bob. Copy and paste him
/▌ all over youtube
/ \ so he can take over
and return the old comment section
[then, after a bit of time passed...]
░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ Bob is building an army.
▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂ ☻/ This tank & Bob are against Google+
Il███████████████████] /▌ Copy and Paste this all over
◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤.. / \ Youtube if you are with us
▀▀▀▀█▀▀▀▀
─▄▀█▀▀█──────▄ Bob is building an army
█▄▄█▄▄██████▀ ☻/ This helicopter & Bob are against Google+
▀▀█▀▀▀█▀▀ /▌ Copy and Paste this all over
─▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ /\ Youtube if you are with us
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bob+is+building+an+army+against+youtube
It's also the fast track to getting banned from a lot of the larger channels as many of them have hired additional mod support to remove spam and ban spam-producing users from their channels.
I've just seen channels completely disable commenting now. As apparently, the algorithm is actually pushing negative and abusive comments up (which is the exact opposite of what google said their goal was), due to it preferring discussions with more replies and more "interaction" (even if its downvotes).
Saw this in the comments for
an Eminem video.
Quote
\☻/ ☻ This is frank and he wants to kill all the bob clones.
▌ ?-- ▌\
/ \ / \ ,︻╦╤─ ,︻╦╤─ ,︻╦╤─ ,︻╦╤─ ,︻╦╤─
good.
Quote
______ This is Bob
! [] I killed him,
! ☻ THE END.
! / ▌\ To make a real change to YouTube
! / \ and avoid looking like a retarded troll
!______ share this petition with 115,000 signatures:
http://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-the-youtube-comment-section-back-to-its-original-form
better.
Ha! Awesome
Lets consider the fact that there is now a cohesive story with plot and an ending happening within the comments section of youtube, with Bob as its protagonist. Is that, once thought about properly, not somewhat mindblowing?
And the plot is more subtle than most of the Rambo movies...
Quote from: Thorin on November 14, 2013, 01:28:13 PM
Lets consider the fact that there is now a cohesive story with plot and an ending happening within the comments section of youtube, with Bob as its protagonist. Is that, once thought about properly, not somewhat mindblowing?
I never once saw them all together in a single video's comments, it's almost ENTIRELY tanks today; just over the last 2 days I occasional noticed a non-tank and pieced it together ITT in what I saw as a logical order -- maybe it is just a fluke the way I pasted them into this thread as I found them.
Then again, maybe it WAS a planned-out thing, like "spread this meme for a while, part two will be coming out tomorrow but you don't even KNOW there is a part two mwahahaha" ... except it's a good, noble, positively-changing-the-web-world meme.
I can haz whale?
Quote
╭━━━━━━━━━╮╭┓┈┈┏╮
┃┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┃┃╰╮╭╯┃
┃┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┈┃╰━┓┏━╯
┃┈┈┈┈┈-X┈┈┈╰━━╯┃
┣━━━━━━╮┈┈┈┈┈┈┃
╰━━━━━━━━━━━━━╯
Thought that was pretty cool in its simplicity.
I thought that was a snail when I first saw it.
Quote
. Bob has decided that nuclear
☻/ / \ weapons are the only way to fix youtube.
/▌ |☢| Copy and Paste this all over youtube
/ \ //||\\ to completely obliterate Google+
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/FONN-0uoTHI/maxresdefault.jpg)
It looks like google has tweaked things a bit. most of the initial spam has calmed down in the videos I watch. Also a bunch of those people added specific keywords for youtube to filter out. which has helped a lot.
Quote from: Tom on November 19, 2013, 03:36:05 PM
It looks like google has tweaked things a bit. most of the initial spam has calmed down in the videos I watch. Also a bunch of those people added specific keywords for youtube to filter out. which has helped a lot.
ACTUALLY last day or two I noticed a bunch of comments saying that if Google finds the word Google in your Google comments then Google will place it higher up in the Google comments.
Not sure if or how that will impact the signal:noise ratio for contents of comments...
Do people Google Google?
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 19, 2013, 03:30:24 PM
Quote
. Bob has decided that nuclear
☻/ / \ weapons are the only way to fix youtube.
/▌ |☢| Copy and Paste this all over youtube
/ \ //||\\ to completely obliterate Google+
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/FONN-0uoTHI/maxresdefault.jpg)
Bob has become a Bond villain at this point, or at the very least Hank Scorpio.