Experimental Tekkit Server

[Tom]

Well as long as converting EMC is easy once you craft the equipment and not some stupid ass process, that's why no one brews potions in Minecraft vanilla, it's a pain in the butt for negligible returns.

Says the guy who's going to make a IC2 Solar Panel factory.

[Mr. Analog]

I'm not gonna bother if you're going to delete the map.

I'll stick to BuildCraft and IndustrialCraft if EE is going to be a pain in the butt anyway.

[Tom]

I'm not gonna bother if you're going to delete the map.

I'll stick to BuildCraft and IndustrialCraft if EE is going to be a pain in the butt anyway.

And yet both BC and IC2 are pains in the butts. As is RP2 for that matter.

[Thorin]

I'm going to wisely stay out of this discussion as I don't know how it all works and I'm partial to vanilla minecraft due to the much quicker updates.

[Mr. Analog]

God I just slogged through about 35 pages of the EE3 mod thread.

The main problem is this is basically a whole new mod not a continuation of EE2, so people are going to bitch and moan about it. Also, while cool, it was released way too early. I mean there sounded like only a hand full of items in the new mod and some of them were broken right from the start.

Pahimar is obsessed with the concept of balance, this is not the fault of the mod but rather the players who abuse mechanics. You can't solve for human nature. Server admins who have problem with abusive users not OP game mechanics. I guarantee that as long as you can convert easy to make/find items into more powerful items people will find ways to exploit this.

What would have been best is to just have stopped development on EE2 and made a new mod from scratch, as it stands this IS a new mod just riding on the Equivalent Exchange name.

[Tom]

God I just slogged through about 35 pages of the EE3 mod thread.

The main problem is this is basically a whole new mod not a continuation of EE2, so people are going to bitch and moan about it. Also, while cool, it was released way too early. I mean there sounded like only a hand full of items in the new mod and some of them were broken right from the start.

Pahimar is obsessed with the concept of balance, this is not the fault of the mod but rather the players who abuse mechanics. You can't solve for human nature. Server admins who have problem with abusive users not OP game mechanics. I guarantee that as long as you can convert easy to make/find items into more powerful items people will find ways to exploit this.

What would have been best is to just have stopped development on EE2 and made a new mod from scratch, as it stands this IS a new mod just riding on the Equivalent Exchange name.

To be fair, he is the current maintainer of EE. And as mentioned, Ee1 and Ee2 were very different. I really think its up to him if he wants to make a new version of the mod that uses very similar mechanics and call it EE.

Also, what the hell are we doing up so late.

Oh right... Minecraft.. I spent some time fighting with mcedit, but it seems its hopeless for doing what I want. I've got some C++ code in the works now. So far its loading the chunk files. Just need to parse the chunk data and do some scanning.

[Mr. Analog]

Oh, I saw a lot of apologist posts in the thread that dodge the core of the conversation, one problem seems to be that one of the co-authors for EE2 has disappeared so even if he wanted to hand off development of the EE2 mod to interested parties he can't (legally anyway).

I realize there was a big difference between EE1 and 2, from what I gather pretty much the only thing that was in EE1 was the Philosopher's Stone (though that was in EE2, complete with the original ability of making a wall). But even without looking at a detailed history of the development, just looking at the facts, you have a quite popular mod that's become an important part for a lot of players, people who are desperate for an update as this was the only major forge mod that hadn't made the jump to 1.4 (well, given the initial popularity of the thread anyway!) One of the mod co-authors wants to resume development (also good) but is stripping out everything and starting from scratch.

I really don't think this was intentional but what we have is someone taking advantage of a popular mod's reputation to build their own, new mod.

I wish Pahimar all the luck in the world but I have no sympathy if they are left answering the same questions over and over about where all the fun stuff went

EDIT: Not sure what I was doing up late either, I have this stupid bug on my mind, I want it fixed and out of my hair LOL

[Mr. Analog]

On a complete side note can you zip up the existing Tekkit Map and mail it to me?

Cheers

[Tom]

I really don't think this was intentional but what we have is someone taking advantage of a popular mod's reputation to build their own, new mod.

I don't think I can bring myself to see it that way.

See, I've been part of the Allegro (gave development library) community for quite a while (10-12 years now?), and back in the day, with version 3, it was maintained by its creator, one Shawn Hargreaves (known for working at Probe Entertainment, Climax Brighton, and now Microsoft, had a large hand in Moto GP at Climax, XNA and now Windows Phone graphics at Microsoft). I think before the 4.0 release which slurped up a bunch of the non DOS ports into a single cross platform library, he handed development over to the developer team as it was at the time (the devs on the dev mailing list), development was moved to sourceforge as Shawn was a lot like linus in that he was the benevolent dictator, he handled all the patches and the source repo. Then Allegro 4.0 was released, which was pretty much the same library as Allegro 3, except for being cross platform out of the box. Then some time went by and we realized that Allegro 4 was a pain in the ass, a mess, and so outdated that something needed done. Then Allegro 5 was born. It's an entirely new API with different semantics. It's hardware accelerated and event based, rather than neither of those things. So its not the allegro that was, but it is the allegro that is.

If anything the new version is /more/ popular than the old version. The team just decided it was more painful to continue expanding on Allegro 4 than it was to spend nearly 10 years (lots of back and forth over the design, and little to no progress in the middle of development for a long time) writing a new library from scratch.

On a complete side note can you zip up the existing Tekkit Map and mail it to me?

Cheers

Sorry, it's my intellectual property! U NO CAN HAZ!



Just kidding.

[Mr. Analog]

Like I say, I don't think it's intentional but that's what's happening. You have a mod that's gained a following, it comes with expectations of what it's supposed to be about and so far all the changes indicated make it something totally different. I think most people were expecting updates to include new EMC values for items and just move it forward so it can be compatible with the latest greatest, not a wholesale rewrite.

From what I could see, people who actually read the OP had mostly negative or curious feedback, as most of the things that really define EE were stated to have been intentionally removed, with only vague claims that there are going to be "better" ways of doing things.

Then you get people who downloaded the mod and tried it finding there wasn't much to it yet, which means it was dropped without much thought to what kind of feedback was going to come down the pipe.

The thing with rewrites is, generally, you want to provide the same set of features in a better way (and EE3 may get there eventually), but so far all we really know is the main features that people like are gone and mostly without replacement.

So given that this is completely different it would have been in Pahimar's best interest to start a new mod that did what he wanted and didn't carry the baggage of EE2.

Kind of like Windows 8, if they had called it "Windows Touch" or something it wouldn't have implied that it was the only possible iteration of Windows but an offshoot with a very definitive purpose, Microsoft probably wouldn't be getting all the bad press right now.

[Tom]

I suppose, but it really is the same mechanics. You have EMC, you have transmutation. It is just a new version of the mod. MC mods are constantly changing. A bunch like Thaumcraft change up their setup with new versions (no more tubes of flowing energy and taint).

I do agree with that its a bit basic right now, and holding back would have improved reception. But it is opensource, and it is clearly marked as alpha state. People who complain about alpha code are really being idiots

As for windows, I'm pretty sure MS doesn't think its alpha code

[Mr. Analog]

I think that's what also got under peoples' skin, it's in the Mod category when it's clearly still in development phase, I think people were expecting something more finished.

[Tom]

What gets under my skin is how people think they are entitled to have whatever they want, when ever they want, and can raise a fuss when they don't get it.

OH MY GOD YOU'RE DOING ALL THIS HARD WORK AND YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT I WANTED YOU TO DO!!!!!ONEONEONEONEKEKEKEKE

those people can suck it.

I don't have a problem with the people being nice and expressing their opinions in a calm and civilized manner. There were a few constructive posts that were half criticism. I think that sort of input is important. Gives the developers some insight into what people are interested in without pissing them off and making them want to quit working on stuff.

[Mr. Analog]

While it's true people aren't entitled to stuff there are still expectations.

Drastic change will always have a polarizing effect.

[Tom]

While it's true people aren't entitled to stuff there are still expectations.

Drastic change will always have a polarizing effect.

Sure. Ass hats will always be ass-hats. And should rightly be ignored. If you don't have anything constructive to say, expect to be ignored.