If you hadn't heard by now the "Fine Brothers" have attempted to trademark "reaction" videos and the storm that has followed is almost impossible to fully comprehend
QuoteThe creators of one of YouTube's biggest channels have sparked fury over plans to trademark and license a popular video format.
The Fine Brothers produce a popular series of "reaction videos", in which people watch online clips and respond.
On Tuesday, they revealed a scheme to let other video-makers use assets from their version of the format.
But they have faced a backlash from viewers for trademarking "react" - a term widely used by other creators.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35459805
http://superfame.com/post/fine-bros-unsubscribe-to-react-controversy-fight-drama/
If you want to see them losing subs in real time check out this link:
http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/thefinebros/realtime
Screenshot attached for posterity:
/checksCalendar
Nope, 2 months early.
Hmmm... #wtf
Already down to 13,854,389 ... poor babies.
The explanation I heard about it is they aren't actually asserting "react" in general, but in their specific format with their specific assets.
I think people are being dumb.
Quote from: Tom on February 01, 2016, 04:01:07 PM
The explanation I heard about it is they aren't actually asserting "react" in general, but in their specific format with their specific assets.
I think people are being dumb.
Likely both sides are.
Because lawyers are involved.
It's entertaining to watch all the extreme... REACTions.
PS: real-time watch the DROP with cool music*! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH0qahqv5YM
and with CHAT! (pretty much Twitch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8E7CWATlk
The music is free, via https://www.youtube.com/user/NoCopyrightSounds -- some fine tunes!
GEEZ, their video where they finally react ("RESPOND[tm]") to this fiasco is pretty weak sauce... it's like "oops, we worded things really badly, sorry guys!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t-vuI9vKfg
Essentially, they are shooting for a "franchise" business model -- they used Burger King as an analogy.
Yup. FB wants to be the BK of YT.
[Jackie Chan reaction face]
PS: it's gone international -- http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35459805
PPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t-vuI9vKfg#t=2m45s they set up an email to deal with questions. Mistake! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFmuO6xJ36g)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 01, 2016, 04:09:46 PM
PS: it's gone international -- http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35459805
Sometimes I wonder if people read the OP
Quote from: Tom on February 01, 2016, 04:01:07 PM
The explanation I heard about it is they aren't actually asserting "react" in general, but in their specific format with their specific assets.
I think people are being dumb.
Mmmm, I'm not so sure I can give them a pass on this, here's the actual trademark application:
http://www.tmfile.com/mark/?q=866893643
QuoteTrademark REACT
This trademark (serial no. 86689364, mark text "REACT") was filed with USPTO on 2015-07-10 and has a current status of "publication/issue review complete". Use the following table to research its status, prosecution history events, classification of goods & services, and current owner etc.
Actual Characters of Mark Text REACT
Classification Statement: Entertainment services, namely, providing an on-going series of programs and webisodes via the internet in the field of observing and interviewing various groups of people
Screw them and screw their money grubbery :)
I skimmed the comments for a bit.
LOL, this was a perfect place to stop reading:
Sky Lake43 minutes ago
I'm surprised they haven't disabled the comment section yet.
WeActOnImpulse Official
WeActOnImpulse Official4 minutes ago
+Sky Lake They have, twice, but they reenabled it (twice) after being called out on twitter and Facebook (twice)
CreeperSlayaRay
CreeperSlayaRay1 minute ago
+Sky Lake I'm surprised they haven't trademarked getting comments at all.
Perfection.
Haha, ok, I guess we'll see what happens.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 01, 2016, 04:17:41 PM
Mmmm, I'm not so sure I can give them a pass on this, here's the actual trademark application:
http://www.tmfile.com/mark/?q=866893643
QuoteTrademark REACT
This trademark (serial no. 86689364, mark text "REACT") was filed with USPTO on 2015-07-10 and has a current status of "publication/issue review complete". Use the following table to research its status, prosecution history events, classification of goods & services, and current owner etc.
Actual Characters of Mark Text REACT
Classification Statement: Entertainment services, namely, providing an on-going series of programs and webisodes via the internet in the field of observing and interviewing various groups of people
I hope "Just For Laughs" as well as pretty much every major network late night talk show host does a "REACT" series just to make a point. Since "observing and interviewing various groups of people" is not exactly a new idea.
But TBH if you watch their "response" it does clarify how their INTENT is much more specific... even though the TM application is so vague and potentially inclusive that it makes electronics companies @%&#ing jealous of such huge balls.
If the trademark application was different their "reaction" story might hold more weight but this is pretty clear IMO, especially since it wasn't really revealed by them it was vetted through social media (Reddit I believe)
Either way they are being punished by the very system they seek to exploit, what's that word? Schadenfreude?
PARTICULARLY in the wake of Sony's attempt to trademark "Let's Play"
http://www.polygon.com/2016/1/27/10853620/sony-trademark-lets-play-rejected
huehuehue
It may also partially be copyright lawyers defaulting to "COPYRIGHT ALL THE THINGS". that's basically their advice on everything. doesn't matter if it makes sense or would even be approved. Gotta do it to protect yourself! mkay! (also to bill more hours!)
BTW... trademark != copyright.
Sincerely, Ted Moseby.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 01, 2016, 06:30:45 PM
BTW... trademark != copyright.
Sincerely, Ted Moseby.
Meh. same lawyers ;)
Ahh it gets better, so the Fine Brothers have released a statement regarding the situation https://medium.com/@FineBrothersEnt/a-message-from-the-fine-brothers-a18ef9b31777#.cz57t1558
They've also rescinded their trademark application, shut down the registration website / "React World" and released all Content ID claims on YouTube (the biggest scumbag move of all was this, THIS is what actually cost YouTubers money)
QuoteA message from the Fine Brothers
Hello,
We?re here to apologize.
We realize we built a system that could easily be used for wrong. We are fixing that. The reality that trademarks like these could be used to theoretically give companies (including ours) the power to police and control online video is a valid concern, and though we can assert our intentions are pure, there?s no way to prove them.
We have decided to do the following:
1. Rescind all of our ?React? trademarks and applications.*
2. Discontinue the React World program.
3. Release all past Content ID claims.**
The concerns people have about React World are understandable, and that people see a link between that and our past video takedowns, but those were mistakes from an earlier time. It makes perfect sense for people to distrust our motives here, but we are confident that our actions will speak louder than these words moving forward.
This has been a hard week. Our plan is to keep making great content with the help of our amazing staff. Thank you for your time and for hearing us out.
Sincerely,
Benny and Rafi Fine
*This includes ?React,? ?Kids React,? ?Elders React,? ?Lyric Breakdown,? etc. Please note: It takes a while for the databases to update, but the necessary paperwork has been filed.
**Content ID is YouTube?s copyright system that automatically flags content that looks like or sounds like copyrighted content. This mostly flags videos that are direct re-uploads of our videos (which is what the system is built for), but if you know of a video that has been claimed or removed incorrectly, please email us with ?false claim? in the subject line.
"Don't be a dick."~Wil Wheaton
Wait, so they actually filed content claims? Oi... thats why people are upset, they say the motives are pure, but clearly the content claims say otherwise.
Quote from: Tom on February 02, 2016, 11:20:21 AM
Wait, so they actually filed content claims? Oi... thats why people are upset, they say the motives are pure, but clearly the content claims say otherwise.
Yes, hence the rage and the subsequent backlash
The thing is when YouTube's automated Content ID system takes a video down you better have a backup of it because otherwise it's just _gone_
This is why I wish more content creators offered non-YouTube-related download options and/or DVDs
Videos don't actually GO. People have successfully gotten their videos reinstated, but its a hassle and takes months.
Quote from: Tom on February 02, 2016, 12:40:18 PM
Videos don't actually GO. People have successfully gotten their videos reinstated, but its a hassle and takes months.
It really depends on what the copyright holder has specified, for example on one of my accounts I have a strike and the holder has chosen to make money off my video (good luck buddy) so the video is still up for people to view. On another account I have I received a strike and the holder has blocked it in certain countries. Some holders are asshats and can have your video taken down, it's just gone at that point.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000?hl=en&ref_topic=2778545
If you have multiple strikes on your account the features you have access to become extremely limited which can impact your ability to produce content:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797387
If you got say, a bunch of strikes on videos you've been posting for years thanks to a new Content ID match well, at best you lose monetization at worst your channel is
deleted ... and trying to find out WTF happened is nearly impossible, as Channel Awesome (Doug Walker) discovered:
Part 1:
https://youtu.be/bC3NIdiZF_E
Part 2:
https://youtu.be/xFlgx2LTdeY
It's like YouTube wants to alienate the very people that make it what it is. How long before its a dead husk filled with Vevo channels?
They took a perfectly good website and ruined it is what they did :)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 11:11:30 AM
...and released all Content ID claims on YouTube (the biggest scumbag move of all was this, THIS is what actually cost YouTubers money)
...
**Content ID is YouTube?s copyright system that automatically flags content that looks like or sounds like copyrighted content. This mostly flags videos that are direct re-uploads of our videos (which is what the system is built for), but if you know of a video that has been claimed or removed incorrectly, please email us with ?false claim? in the subject line.
^ that's the thing, the automatic nature of the ContentId tagging/flagging/banning system makes even "good guys" look like bad guys when suddenly a bunch of false positives get triggered... not saying these fine boys are "good", clearly their hands are not perfectly clean here.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 11:11:30 AM
*This includes ?React,? ?Kids React,? ?Elders React,? ?Lyric Breakdown,? etc. Please note: It takes a while for the databases to update, but the necessary paperwork has been filed.
anyone else up for "Sweding (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sweding)" some of their better known videos and calling them "children react", "seniors react", "song words breakdown" etc.? ;D
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
If you have multiple strikes on your account the features you have access to become extremely limited which can impact your ability to produce content:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797387
Features available to accounts in good standing
The following YouTube features are among those restricted to users who are in good standing:
...
Uploading videos under Creative Commons licenses
...
Appealing rejected Content ID claim disputes
ho. ly. @%&#. you ain't kidding.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 11:31:37 AM
The thing is when YouTube's automated Content ID system takes a video down you better have a backup of it because otherwise it's just _gone_
This is why I wish more content creators offered non-YouTube-related download options and/or DVDs
There's a couple really handy "media downloader" type of plugins out there, I've got one installed at home in Firefox that works beautifully, whether Average Jo content producers' stuff or *VEVO* music videos. Also works on Vimeo etc. but for the most part I have utilized it just to make sure I have a "local copy" of something that might later be memory-holed.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
... and trying to find out WTF happened is nearly impossible, as Channel Awesome (Doug Walker) discovered:
Part 1:
https://youtu.be/bC3NIdiZF_E
Part 2:
https://youtu.be/xFlgx2LTdeY
YIKES even really good producers like Eli the Computer Guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxnb2V0muGw) are saying BUH-BYE. He's been putting out actually useful, accessible content for YEARS. As his fulltime job. Offering high signal:noise IT info for the Youtube community. :sigh:
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
It's like YouTube wants to alienate the very people that make it what it is. How long before its a dead husk filled with Vevo channels?
They took a perfectly good website and ruined it is what they did :)
Methinks the current leadership of Youtube went to the same school of mismanagement as PokerStars.
Buy a market leader for tons of cash, then suddenly realize you want to focus on "revenue growth" and do everything you can think of that MIGHT head in that direction... even if as a result your long-standing uber-fans become very vocal opponents to not just your decisions but your brand itself, to the point of jumping ship completely and bad-mouthing you (armed with facts and logic) at every opportunity to others in the marketplace.
johnnymccraze3 days ago (edited)
It's become frighteningly apparent. We are currently witnessing the end of YouTube. If the staff doesn't fix all of this soon (which I'm 90% sure they won't at this point), this website that has been going strong for almost eleven years will go out with the tiniest boop imaginable.
WOW, in both cases seems in the semi-monopoly world of internet-serious-business the 10-11 year mark is when the PHBs completely take over and [as Mike Ehrmantraut would say] @%&# up a good thing.
Update on Eli (which might also be good news for Channel Awesome etc...)
Published on Jan 29, 2016
Spoke with YouTube management and I now have a Partner Manger that will act as an advocate on problems in the future.
I always say, "Distrust and Verify, then be Suspicious", but this looks promising...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGgObeJm5A
but how many less persistent producers are gonna just say "what the @%&#, youtube? ... @%&# YOU, youtube." and bail for good!
Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 02, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Update on Eli (which might also be good news for Channel Awesome etc...)
Published on Jan 29, 2016
Spoke with YouTube management and I now have a Partner Manger that will act as an advocate on problems in the future.
I always say, "Distrust and Verify, then be Suspicious", but this looks promising...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGgObeJm5A
but how many less persistent producers are gonna just say "what the @%&#, youtube? ... @%&# YOU, youtube." and bail for good!
Doug Walker's second video addresses the resolution that was made, but whatever thin levels of trust that remained in the community has been soured.
So between this mayhem and the Fine Bros (which, might I add in some cases are related) a lot has been exposed in the last 8 weeks or so
I said it before but if you wonder why your favourite YouTube celebrities are moving to livestreaming now you know why
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 02, 2016, 02:06:01 PM
Doug Walker's second video addresses the resolution that was made, but whatever thin levels of trust that remained in the community has been soured.
So between this mayhem and the Fine Bros (which, might I add in some cases are related) a lot has been exposed in the last 8 weeks or so
I said it before but if you wonder why your favourite YouTube celebrities are moving to livestreaming now you know why
Yeah, Eli says in the January 25th video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxnb2V0muGw) that he's giving up on YT -- after all, he still has "one strike" and has no idea going forward what is "safe" content in order to avoid a future #2 and #3 (which kills your channel for good). So chalk him up to the "FU, YT!" side of the page.
Even though on January 29th he followed up with the video about getting the "advocate" assigned (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGgObeJm5A), this "apology" from Youtube was I am sure essentially "too little, too late".
Youtube / Google have a very poor history of providing any support or communication for these kinds of things..
A good example is this that is what has happened with Lets play channels in the past http://stampylongnose.wikia.com/wiki/Stampylonghead , bad news if you are making a living from your channel.
That's for sure, that's why so many people are going to twitch / etc