Seing as though this subject has become a pretty sitely one in another thread, thought I would start up a new one. So a lot of you would like to see this site change from a Guild site to something else... what exactly? What would you change? What is your goal with your thoughts? What benefits would there be? Speak you mind.
Well there is a semi-hidden Edmonton forum, for the 10 or so of us that all live here (and also coincidentally make up like 90% of all posts on this board). If you really want to look at what it's used for vs what it was designed for, lets be honest about it - it's not a geek culture, or general gaming, or anything else site as it's currently used - it's a place where a bunch of RL friends chat and not much of anyone else visits (yep, I can be blunt at times) vs being an MMO guild site. Has anyone taken into account that ALL of the visitors here besides the 'RL friends' gang are here due to their membership in RW in some MMO? Really - do a bunch of RL friends need their own dedicated internet forum to communicate - I think guild-related is where the site needs to be, and for it to go anywhere, the guild needs to get off it's ass after the whole WoW thing.
Edit: was typing this as Mel posted..., one of the mods can move this if they're less lazy than I am.
All I know is this; based on how the forums are used should have at least a small bearing on the site content, otherwise it will languish into obscurity (remember Hytek "There's a site?").
Quote from: "Mr. Analog"All I know is this; based on how the forums are used should have at least a small bearing on the site content, otherwise it will languish into obscurity (remember Hytek "There's a site?").
Well there's a good design problem for ya... Should a website adjust it's purpose to suit user-content that was posted to it? Or should it be moderated in such a way to encourage the function it was designed for, while still allowing users their personal freedom within the overall topic at hand.
Also, it would be VERY easy to argue that
rw.com is already languishing in obscurity :wink:
Quote from: "Cova"ALL of the visitors here besides the 'RL friends' gang are here due to their membership in RW in some MMO?
Granted, however there has never really been a lot of communication on the forums related to MMO gaming that has a lot of value either. There are (were?) plenty of Guildies who never even registered on the forums. I remember playing WoW and nearly all the communication about Guild events, teaming up, epic events and event results was almost exclusivly done in-game. In fact as i recall there was a bit of strife created because things would get discussed only in-game and not discussed at all on the site.
There is no reason for a Guildie to come here, there is no useful guild related content to be had.
I guess what I want to know is; what is the true purpose of this site? (Beyond giving us a shared forum). As well, is there a need for us to have a seperate site that caters specifically to us as a group of generic gamers? (Rather than strictly MMO players).
Now, before you answer I just want to say one thing; I always looked at this site as more of a clan of gamers. A place where we could plan for LAN parties, discuss games, tech and other stuff we all like. That's why I don't like the "intended" focus to get too narrowed down.
Guys not so serious... geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeee. Here it is... Righteous Wrath is a Guild site with a primary focus on Online Gaming, mostly MMOs.
We will never censorship discussions, idea sharing, expansions or others even though they may be outside our focus (so long as the forums/website software can accomodate those changes/ideas). Only thing we do censor is recruitment of members to other guilds - again related to our primary focus.
So that's it. I know WoW was heavily used to discuss information and action, Horizons before it. CoH never really got that heavily used for discussions for guild stuff... but then again I was hoping that would change now that CoV is on the horizon.
I think I bring up a valid point, why can't we "officially" act as a clan and not an MMO Guild?
Look, all I'm saying is that if there is going to be a lot of work to revamp the main site you might as well direct it as something people will use. What site features did you have in mind for the Guild?
News/Article writing, spotlights of game characters and concepts, all based on content provided in the forums through a moderated section. Still will have the Guild Moto, and elder listing as well as game specific events (we had one setup for WoW - never really were able to get it off the ground, and even ran a Guild related question once).
Might eventually get into User Blogging, althought that may be down the road.
Quote from: "Mr. Analog"I think I bring up a valid point, why can't we "officially" act as a clan and not an MMO Guild?
We are for the most part. Otherwise sections like Archaic Games would exist. But our major presence in the internet world is as an MMO Guild. This doesn't mean that a Righteous Wrath clan cannot be represented in a Counter Strike tournament or Quake match. If that were the case, then a section to represent those members can be added. Sections that are User Group base exist to accomodate that group for a more personal connection to the topics they represent, allowing a freedom to be more personal with those associated with the User Group, without worry of public scrutiny {sp?}.
So what Melbosa is basically saying is that, while RW is a guild forum (that mostly plays MMO), it doesnt stop the forums from being full of "whatever".
Really, thats all that I care about.
As long as we can still plan an upcoming heroscape game, the next D&D adventure, disc golf outting, LAN party, chat about politics, religion, technology, games, love, death, sex, violence; then honestly, im not sure i care what RW turns into (no offence to those putting in the hard work).
Im with MrA in that RW means more to me as a forum of people i know discussing "whatever" then a forum for a MMO game.
If you REALLY want RW to be a MMO guild focused website, you're gonna need to seriously narrow the focus of the forums and website like Cova suggested or else this entire thread and all the upcoming hard work and game talk is sorta moot as nothing will change, and in a years time we might still be discussing this same topic, with the same round and round results.
I wouldnt be offended if RW went that direction.
Their truely is nothing stopping us from creating a spin off website with what MrA and I are talking about, it might be better that way in that the restrictions, topics, and a leadership hierarchy wouldnt exist. Members would feel less like "members" and more like people.
Our Heroscape forum is growing rapidly with all sorts of strategy and pictures, yet its hidden from the general google searching because its not RW focus. The D&D forums are the same way. Each of these could potentially drive traffic to the website, maybe some googleads on the side of the forum to generate a little income to cover costs.
I had a really long post in regards to this topic but I decided that rather be confrontational I'd just say what I like about this site.
My only comment is that everyone needs to realize that the Website and the Forums are two SEPARATE entities. The website is guild based, there to discuss guild related things, about us, how we started, our members, what games we're playing, maybe even the hottest topics in the forums etc, not to discuss what new toys are on the market or the latest new hardware. Quite frankly to update that would be a lot of extra work for the Dev's who already spend a lot of their free time maintaining this site. The forums is for RW members to yap about whatever they want to their hearts desire, whether it's MMO related or not! Although I would like to see a little more use of the forums for planning in-game events for those of us who may not be in-game every night.
Clan vs Guild. Guess what they are essentially the same thing, it's just a label. Yes we started as an MMO guild and for a large part still are. Every member of the forums does not NEED to be playing the same game in order to be a member. We've all at some point been a part of the RW guild in an MMO that's what qualifies us as members. We have never restricted what topics can be discussed and never will (other than recruiting of other guilds, which I think is fair due to the fact at the time there was an RW guild in that particular game).
Edited: removed personal pet peeve because was confrontational
Ok, first of all we're all adults here and you won't hurt my feelings if you say I'm full of ass BUT you better back it up with some reasoning, now onto the friendly neighbourhood rebuttals!
Quote from: "Shaeleam"[This] website is [not for] discuss[ing] what new toys are on the market or the latest new hardware. Quite frankly to update that would be a lot of extra work for the Dev's who already spend a lot of their free time maintaining this site.
Again, if the site was designed to be easily updated through a portal or some custom app that wouldn't be an issue. Additionally, beyond server maintenance and forum work (done by Mel and Lazy) just how intense is the rest of the site maintenance? (I really don't know, you tell me!?). Heck, I think being able to have Heroscape or D&D subsites or articles would be the bees knees and could be updated by the likes of our own vast motley crew. I know from experience site dev can be time consuming (heck, I'm *still* working on images for Lazy!) but therre are ways of mitigating this, particularily because we're mostly all programmers here.
Quote from: "Shaeleam"Clan vs Guild. Guess what they are essentially the same thing, it's just a label.
That's not technically accurate, a Clan is a group of gamers who game together for the fun of it. A Guild works together in a social hierarchy with defined roles to accomplish a task.
I don't want to get all nitpicky here, but I know I lean more towards Clan-style "lets play whatever for a while and kick ass" vs. the Guild-style "I am the desginated [blah] crafter and I have to make X items for the good of the clan". There is a difference and I think we have people from both camps here.
I ran a successful online game with over 2,500 members, a database stretching in the GB, and over a million lines of source code. Maintenance involved me making sure the server was on, and the internet was connected. I really dont think website maintenance is all that much work. While, i can admit, their will be times when the server OS needs an update, or the forum software needs an update, but really beyond that, their shouldnt be more, if their is, id look into a different OS and/or Forum.
I think that this converstation is actually rather healthy then derogitory. Its about time the air was cleared as to what exactly RW is, and where its going.
Im really not a fan of the whole "Guild" mentality with "elders" and a "charter". It feels...like...a little immature? While i agree that we need moderators to keep the peace and make sure that this place doesnt turn into a childporn heaven, im just not sure that i need to be directed by somebody. This really came into effect with the whole WoW thing (having to be on a RP server, having to play on a PvE server, or having to not be RW or at least not be apart of the "greater good"). This could be an underlying reason that im not a big fan of MMORPGs, as i really dont think i need to be told what i can and cant do on my free time (i get enough of that at work, and from the woman :)).
Anyways, you all make good points. If RW becomes more focused towards being exclusively a guild for MMO games, i have no problem spearheading the development of a RW spinoff community site on my pipe and server. If not, then i will continue to make my presence known here (for better and for worse).
Ive made 2295 posts here, say an average of 30 seconds per post, thats nearly 20 hours of just typing. I cant imagine how many hours ive spent reading, laughing, crying and overall enjoying myself.
Best. Post. Ever!
I spent a long hard time thinking and reading your responses. Unfotunately it looks like I'm on my own in this, as Mags - although was on the forums today - ignored or didn't have the time to head my PM to look at this topic and put in his own 2 cents.
You all make valid points and have obviously a lot of talent and ambition. I know all of you posting here personally, and I consider all your talents and traits to be some of the best out there. I think you all are intelligent and resourceful people, each an individual off uniqueness in his/her right.
Over the last 2 years I believe we have grown as a community, as a group, and as a site. We've found things that work, and things that don't. Some people have put in more effort than others, but no contribution is too little. Administration, contributions, development... these are all tasks that have been performed out of each of the contributer's own time, and I thank them for that.
But having said that there are flaws to your responses as well. There have been great suggestions and options put forward, some valid that have even come to full light over these past years. But there have been faults too. It is nice to ask for developed content, dynamic - living data stores and displays, and great functionality. It is even better to suggest that you can contribute to this in your own way. But over these years there have times of promises of content, of development from members, that never came to pass... empty in the end as well intended as they are.
The changes and direction that has been suggested require a community commited to the development and effort to take on such work. Based on history I can't see this being possible. We all live very busy and demanding lives. We have enough with our work, our personal projects, our contracts, our families, and our friends. And an added problem is the more hands in the pot, the bigger chance of problems or conflicts. I wish we had the time to make this site into a full-fledged power house, all encompassing, the sky is the limit, designed for dynamic growth from the ground up site. But lets be realistic... none of us get paid to do this... some of us even take a personal pocket-book hit to keep it as it is today (and not just me)... so the ambition and will is there, but is the commitment and drive when it comes to the hard line? I don't think so.
That being said this site was a personal project of Mags and mine that grew into what it is today - again with a lot of your help. And as it sits now it is hard enough to keep it moving in a forward direction with it's current scope. And don't get me wrong, all the contributions everyone makes to make this site better helps tremendously - very generous of you all. So I don't think expanding its purpose or changing its direction is going to open it up, I think it will cause its slow death - due to it changing from fun and interesting to work and tedious.
I sincerely hope this doesn't cause a mass loss of everyone here that utilizes this site beyond the Guild and Online gaming that is its focus. It is a great community jive we have here, and a lot of great members. I would hate to see that disappear.
So I leave you with this:
* Does the current layout, design or functionality of the website or forums hinder your efforts of your own personal goals (in relation to this site) in any way?
* Is there censorship or oppression by the focus or guildlines that is going on that I am missing?
* Is it wrong to have a general focus that is narrower to allow for reasonable maintainance and commitment that what you propose?
My suggestion then, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I have offered to do things in the past (such as providing content, or offering my technical expertise) but there was such an overwhelming lack of interest in what I had to offer that it wasn't worth me wasting my time. Sorry but that's the truth.
Bottom line is we talk a great deal about what should happen here and there but we never sit down to meet about it or discuss things in detail. Hell, we don't even have bar napkin scribble notes to compare. The will is there, believe me, but the interest is lacking. I don't work in a vacuume and I certainly can't guess what kinds of things you need done around here that I might be able to help with so don't tell me stories about people who have tried to contribute to the site content and "failed".
To answer your questions, the forums are fine, don't change 'em. I think on that we can all agree. As for the site, well, unless there is something there I need I probably won't visit it. And yes, it is impossible to have a specific and general focus. They are mutually exclusive, a specific focus is exclusive while a general focus is inclusive.
I have to refer back to Shayne's post though; basically he lays it out rather smartly. We either go one way or the other, the point is we have to choose before we make any site shattering choices. I don't want the gaming group to splinter, and contrary to popular belief I'm not trying to make this happen, but we have to address where you, the site owner, sits on this one.
Quote from: "Mr. Analog"I have offered to do things in the past (such as providing content, or offering my technical expertise) but there was such an overwhelming lack of interest in what I had to offer that it wasn't worth me wasting my time. Sorry but that's the truth.
Bottom line is we talk a great deal about what should happen here and there but we never sit down to meet about it or discuss things in detail. Hell, we don't even have bar napkin scribble notes to compare. The will is there, believe me, but the interest is lacking. I don't work in a vacuume and I certainly can't guess what kinds of things you need done around here that I might be able to help with so don't tell me stories about people who have tried to contribute to the site content and "failed".
I wasn't being specific, as there is no need, so I am sorry if I offended you in some way.
And to put this plan and simple - for me this is one site I really enjoy working on and improving... with some strategy and design considerations... informal and relaxed. Anything beyond that, and this will feel like work, which will make me loose interest fast. If anyone has ideas, concepts, development or other, feel free to just do it and so us a prototype... let the creative juices flow... you don't need me to tell what to do, nor do I expect you to feel I must.
I swear some of you guys are taking this too seriously for a bloody community site.
QuoteI have to refer back to Shayne's post though; basically he lays it out rather smartly. We either go one way or the other, the point is we have to choose before we make any site shattering choices. I don't want the gaming group to splinter, and contrary to popular belief I'm not trying to make this happen, but we have to address where you, the site owner, sits on this one.
You want my stance... well if you haven't guess it already here it is:
Righteous Wrath is a website and forum primarily focused as a Guild community, with MMOs and Online Gaming in mind. It is open to be beyond that to meet the members needs or wants, so long as the hardware and software allow, and does not overshadow the primary focus to the point that it is lost in the sea of topics.
I think we are already on this direction with the current forum layout, and I know the primary elements of our previous website reflected this, and is my hope the new design will just expand on it, and allow for more diversity and dynamic delivery of website content.
So...
Quote from: "Melbosa"over these years there have times of promises of content, of development from members, that never came to pass... empty in the end as well intended as they are.
So you had expectations and yet
Quote from: "Melbosa"You don't need me to tell what to do, nor do I expect you to feel I must
You don't!? Huh? Wha?
Quote from: "Melbosa"I swear some of you guys are taking this too seriously for a bloody community site.
Oh, I see, by belittling issues they just aren't worth talking about? This has to get sorted out eventually. What is it you expect me to say or do? I have to re-iterate. I am not angry I'm just a bit confused as to what you want out of a user like myself.
You say you want to run this site like a Guild, but, you want it to be informal and relaxed with little or no structure; this does not compute Wil Robinson! A
Guild is all about rigid control and defined guildines that
all members abide by.
All I am suggesting is that we drop
the pretense that we are a Guild and adopt the model we have evolved to; a gaming clan.
I have raised the banner high and proclaimed to the heavens that our clan of friends is probably one of the strongest on the net (well that's the way I think!). I have brought friends of mine from a vairety of sources and asked only that we live together like a band of brothers and can game, joke and discuss various topics on our great forums to various degrees of our own liking.
Am I wrong? Are we not a group of friends who may or may not share the same taste in gaming? Do we just want to devolve into a group of slotted powergamers farming gold and pwning root in a single category?
All I want is for us to be the best we can; and to me (at least) that means flexibility.
Incedentally, yes I do get hung up on terminology. It really does bother me that you want us to cram into the Guild model.
Being in a Guild means working at a game, and I am not about that at all (and I can safely assume no one else around here is). As a Clan however we can all play various things under the Clan banner. We're the Righteous Wrath chess playa's, or CCG'ers, or RPG'ers or FPS'ers, etc, etc. Again, we are more a group of peers having fun than a group of gamers trying to pwn an MMO.
(http://vger.homeip.net/images/rw_sheild.gif)
Just an FYI, look a the time I was posting my responses, I apologise if I got a bit emotional there. I don't want to add extra stress to anyones life. But, this thread is all about what I would like to see changed. If you don't agree, that's fine with me just don't take obvious shots at me please.
I still think you outta add in some google adds to the bottom and/or top and/or right side of the forum. Thats a metric ass load of page loads and such, might be a good source of revenue for things like a LAN party.
/shrug
That is all I have left. This is way more serious than I ever wanted it to be. I've never said I wanted to run a strict, dictatorship of a guild, nor do I want to run a group of developers with high ambitions and strong will - at least not as a side hobby. I just wanted a place for everyone to share, express and have fun - with a loose but not lost focus. Alas I feel as if I just keep repeating myself. Obviously my vision of a Guild and others differ... and hey that is what being human is all about.
I no longer wish to continue this discussion for I value friendships and personal feelings above this site, which is just a website and a discussion forum, and I can tell that this is becoming personal to some where there was never any intention of so.
{never understands why things get so personal so fast - *sigh*]
I will thank you all for those who gave me specific ideas as what we could change or improve. If you have more specifics, please keep them coming.
Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic...
If this weren't a guild site I would like to see:
-Reviews (games, movies, dvds, etc)
-Gaming articles / guides (Heroscape, D&D, MMO, console, PC, Disc Golf, etc)
-Humour articles (photoshops, funny writing, etc)
I mean, that list is pretty much everything that rocks inside the forums and the I would like to see on the site (IF it weren't a guild site).
Well, I have been watching this thread continue, but I am still waiting for it to find a focus. It seems that it got off base from the second it started.
Yes this site was started as a guild site. Period. It was then hijacked into more of a community site by those most active on it. And that has not necessarily a bad thing.
It is certainly one of the most active guild sites going, that includes sites for guilds with thousands of members that I've been to.
But, the negative of that is it tends to intimidate new members sometime (which is what I believe is Mel's concern perhaps), at least that is what the new on-line members have told me in game. Which is basic human nature, just like walking into a party where you know no one, and everyone there knows each other, it's hard to fit in right off. They come expecting to find a forum on guild matters and goings on and tend to be overwhelmed by the ferocity of the Lobby, and the people there that aren't even playing games with the guild.
But, to make the site guild specific, it would essentially kill the current community that has grown here and would cause us to start over. I donno if that is what we want at this point or not. Certainly we should have been more focused perhaps in the beginning and been more rigid on the focus. But I think we all were caught up in the fun of the "newness" of it, and the apparent success in the animal that it became.
Also, I think it's important that we remember that more is not always better. There is a community feel here that could also be crushed by rapid expansion by over zealous people moving in and steering it into what they want it to be. Seen this many times on other sites as well, and when people try and steer it back to what they originally intended then it can kill the site as a whole. (My general feelings on Hytek personally as well).
Still I don't even know if I am on topic for this topic, if not disregard I guess. But if we are unhappy with the current state, we should define a focus and stick to it. There is no way that this not going to kill the current community that we have built as I see it. There are way too many directions that people would want to pull this thing, and every way is going to ostracize others. So we should be clear that we want to loose what we got before moving forward.
Quote from: "Shayne"So what Melbosa is basically saying is that, while RW is a guild forum (that mostly plays MMO), it doesnt stop the forums from being full of "whatever".
Really, thats all that I care about.
As long as we can still plan an upcoming heroscape game, the next D&D adventure, disc golf outting, LAN party, chat about politics, religion, technology, games, love, death, sex, violence; then honestly, im not sure i care what RW turns into (no offence to those putting in the hard work).
Im with MrA in that RW means more to me as a forum of people i know discussing "whatever" then a forum for a MMO game.
Agreed! And on that note, there is a serious lack of threads on the subject of DEATH. Weird, that. :?
QuoteObviously my vision of a Guild and others differ
Agreed, I think that it seems everyone has a very different idea of what a guild is. SOME guilds are about owning a game or pwning as I believe it was put, or farming or furthering the guild so it's the best. I don't think we've ever been about that, a guild is what you make it, not some pre-conception. And I've seen folks who call themselves Clans behave just as badly.
I think Mags said it best:
Quoteif we are unhappy with the current state, we should define a focus and stick to it. There is no way that this not going to kill the current community that we have built as I see it. There are way too many directions that people would want to pull this thing, and every way is going to ostracize others. So we should be clear that we want to loose what we got before moving forward.
I like things the way they are, I do wish more folks would go to the main site, and hopefully with the new dynamic content we are planning on implementing they will. But as Mel said, try to do to much and the thing you considered a fun side project turns into work.
Mags also brought up a very good point:
Quotethe negative of that is it tends to intimidate new members sometime
This hits bang on, because we are a group of friends and there tended to be a lot of lets plan what Edmontonians are doing this weekend in the lobby before we had the new user groups. It was a tad intimidating for new members to want to post, I would feel like an outsider in that situation personally.
In summary, as I'm going to leave this thread alone now:
* I don't think we should change the forums one iota, they are what we have made them and I think that's what we all love about them.
* Website should be about us, our beginnings etc. Highlighting if possible the topic of the week or day in the forum (upon the discretion of the Dev's as to ease of updating etc.)
--If someone has an idea for a section of the website, and they can commit the time to updating it themselves without altering the layout of the current site, they should submit those ideas/proposal's to Mel and Mags for approval. Ultimately someone has to be in charge of final content say, if 15 people all start updating content it'll become chaos and there will be a lot of arguing.
We've already seen some of that in this thread alone, and it's silly really.
Quoteif it ain't broke, don't fix it
you said it! I don't think it's broke!
Hmm..., I might have to start checking this site during weekends, I kinda fell out of the conversation there.
Anyways, I still stand by my previous posts as I believe they are simple statements of fact. I haven't yet really expressed an opinion on what the focus of the site should be - I've merely stated that a focus needs to be chosen, and that the site should follow that focus.
Now, a lot of the arguments here seem to revolve around guild vs clan vs whatever other term people want to call RW. Lets just look into this a bit, and I'll start with this quote...
QuoteThat's not technically accurate, a Clan is a group of gamers who game together for the fun of it. A Guild works together in a social hierarchy with defined roles to accomplish a task.
Where did this definition come from? Wikipedia has a nice page that pretty much meets my definitions for both terms over here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_%28computer_gaming%29 Basically - I don't see that clans, guilds, or whatever else you want to call them are any different from each other at all, but that the name usually results more from the game being played. FPSs and RTSs usually have clans, MMOs usually have guilds, etc. Now RW is a clan/guild that spans many games, from FPSs (Battlefield 1/2 come to mind), MMO's (CoH, WoW, AC2, etc.), right down to pen-and-paper RPG's, LAN-partying, etc. Personally, I call RW a guild, because of the games that I play as a member of RW, they are all MMO's, and thats the accepted term for a group of players working together. RW is far from a "hard-core" guild in terms of structure or getting things done (what Mr. A is refering to), it's far more of a casual, just have fun type of guild.
Now then - back to the topic at hand, the focus of this site / forums. I think it should be to support the RW 'guild', and hence should be devoted to all of the things that all of the members of the guild participate in - with sub-sections (or sub-forums) for each general category. We already pretty much have that, with sections for WoW, CoH, pen-and-paper games, etc. And just because we are a gaming site/forum, I don't have any problem with having an off-topic forum, because members will at times want to discuss things not related to whatever game(s) they're playing at the time. Hell - the forums for my WoW guild before I quit had a section called "Drunken Masters", just for the 3 or 4 members of the guild that knew each other IRL and liked to go on drunking trips and chat about it on the boards the next day.
Problems like when the WoW players wouldn't register/check the forums - I've had to deal with that one before too (my EQ guild had exactly the same problem). People won't come because there's no content, no content gets produced because there's no people. I'm afraid it's up to the current board-members, and the guild-leaders for each individual game, to fix that problem - make content. People won't register an account here till they have to - if they have to do it to become a part of the guild, or to see when the next guild event is, then they'll register. Once thats done they're far more likely to come back, and to participate in discussion. Yes, it might cause a few people to leave, but honestly is it really a problem to lose a few people that won't even put in the effort to register on a forum? Probably the same people who don't participate much in the guild in whatever game they play either. Every semi-successful guild I've been in in an MMO has required registration on the guild forums, to make a post into the applications forum with some basic info (as simple as name and why you want to join, up to strict forms with tons of details) to apply to be part of the guild. You check back in the forum to see your application status, and none of those guilds seem to have problems with getting members to check the forums for things like times of events.
Anyways - my backup job finished running, I'm off to rebuild a server so I'll leave this to digest for a bit.
I got my definitions from both the dictionary and from my own experiences online.
Quote from: "From dictionary.com (bold mine)"
guild
n : a formal association of people with similar interests
clan
n : a large group of relatives, friends, or associates.
From my own travels on the web I find more often than not that clans are less organized groups of players that play PFSs or other twitch games where working together simultaneously is the key to victory whereas I found that Guilds form more readily in games that reward more structured communal work in a disconnected way (prevalent in MMOs).
So again, I got my previous distinction between Guild / Clan based on the actual word definitions and my own experiences in both MMOs (Asheron's Call, WoW) and other games (Tribes, Battlefield).
Semantics is a hobby of mine.
While I'll agree that the "clan" term is used more often for FPS's, I don't think it has anything to do with how the players are structured. I've seen some very hard-core FPS clans that are extremely structured, with rules for when you must play, punishments, etc. I've seen some very loosely knit guilds in MMO's. And "structured communal work" is actually NOT what's required of a large/successful MMO guild - though such guilds often have some type of way of tracking things like who can craft what, etc. it's not nearly as important as the ability to work together simultaneously. To use WoW as an example, you don't even zone into Molten Core, Onyxia's Lair, or the other new raid content that's been released since I quit unless you have 30+ (preferably 40) players that are very good at communicating and working together.
As for your dictionary.com quotes - there are just as many that would define it more in line with what I'm describing:
QuoteAn association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards.
And the one you quoted just doesn't seem to carry quite the same meaning when you quote the entire line:
Quotea formal association of people with similar interests; "he joined a golf club"; "they formed a small lunch society"; "men from the fraternal order will staff the soup kitchen today"
In fact, I would say that most of the clan definitions are more formal than the guild definitions, since most definitions of clan refer to tribes of people, or families and blood-lines.
Whatever, potat-o / po-tat-o. Point is we should be organized or not, someone has to decide.
Some good points and good discussion.
I like some of the ideas posted here, and will focus directly on the Forum section for now.
Here is my thoughts:
We are a Guild site or Clan site, which ever term you wish to use or how you wish to define us. Our General Category will stay open to public viewing, and any General Topics we setup that is not very specific or warrants a User Group (MMOs General Topics, Archaic General Topic). Guild/Clan specific topics will be limited to Registration, as well as Archives, Forum Topics, etc (this is an expansion of Cova's suggestion). Posting will always be limited to Registration.
Our Categories will pretty much be contingent based with an MMO focus (for now), with others adding as members warrant - BF2 one if we were all trying to organize a large following in that game for example. User Groups will be used for sectioning off Topics or Categories where needed and warranted - user privacy, or regional based.
There should never be, nor ever there was, a pressure to make people play or play on or play with in games. Righteous Wrath will always run a poll for servers or such if there is a need, and will only ever be represented in one place on any particular game (as so not to cause confusion of who or where or what we are as a group). This does not mean that you are limited or enforced to play on those servers, just that RW itself will ony be represented in one place.
This will also not limit posting or such about the game or what your doing or anything while you play with others on these boards, but other guild/clan recruitment will not be allowed (even if RW does not have a presence there) nor will we be a hub for organizing other Guild/Clan events. We don't want to confuse our members by having more than one Guild/Clan represented on these boards.
In specific regards to MMOs, we have a motto with which we follow, and this will be back on the main site. This does not mean that we would do totally different things with other games, as a general rule we really don't like to be cheaters or gankers in any game, as I think most of us are pretty nice people - but this is only really applies if you are playing that game under the RW Flag. So for MMOs we will be a little more focused as how RW is represented, and this is something that I think both Mags and I have the final say on - as this is what this place started out as - and we don't want to loose site of our vision of RW in MMOs.
Does this sound reasonable?
Yep.
Just to clearify the final result of the forums, the layout as I see it is as follows:
Legend:
A - Administrators
M - Moderators
P - Public
R - Registered
U - User Group
L - Locked
[/i]
Administration (A)General (A)
Board Features (A)
Moderation (M)General (M)
Help/Guidelines (M)
General (P)Announcements (R) (L)
Lobby (P)
Game Chat (P)
Bazaar (R)
Help (P)
City of Heroes/City of Villains (P)General (P)
Guild Events (R)
Help (R)
Portraits & Paintings (R)
World of Warcraft (P)Archaic Games (P)D&D (P)General (P)
D&D 3.0 (U)
D&D 3.5 (U)
Heroscape (P)General (P)
User Group Discussion (U)
Disc Golf (P)General (P)
User Group Discussion (U)
Edmontonians (U)Archives (R)E3 2005 (R) (L)
Guild Wars (R) (L)
World of Warcraft (R) (L)
Issue Tracking (R)