OK, maybe not the worst, but the Vonage IPO was pretty bad (http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/24/news/companies/vonage.reut/index.htm).
Ya when Skype is giving it away for free it is hard for the average investor to see value. Also there are SOOOOO many VOIP providers now.. It is only time before they start dieing off.
While the IPO hasnt gone awsome, its service and price points is fantastic. Why would I freaking concider SHAWs at $50 a month when i pay $20??
It will be a damn shame if this company goes under, really truely the end of cheap VOIP.
Also Skype is a little different as it still costs money to have a phone number (real) and it also needs a PC. Worthless for me.
It's unfortunate that's for sure, their profit margin must be razor thin though looking at some of their numbers.
loosing $100M a year, the IPO was to generate cash to expand. Basically you got a brand new company buying its way into a market against the stiffest of competition. Why does SHAW or Comcast or whoever else need to sell their service for such a high price when vonage isnt? Granted i dont have the "uber infinite minutes" plan, but i dont need "uber infinite minutes", i need 500 and all the handy features, if SHAW were to do that, even say at $25 maybe $30 I might switch over to them, but $55 (I check their price this morning), im not made of cash and the reason i moved to vonage was because just a phone line from telus with no features and no long distance is $20.
Quote from: Shayne on May 25, 2006, 08:09:46 AMWhy does SHAW or Comcast or whoever else need to sell their service for such a high price when vonage isnt?
I'm thinking because people will pay the higher price
thinking they're getting a brick and mortar system that's more "dependable" then the newcomers (when there is no difference really).
If anything, Vonage paved the road for Evil Cable companies to also become Evil Phone companies.
Telus has been aggressively trying to get me to go back to them for voice and internet services. Compaired to what they used to offer they are really changing there plans, yet it doesn't compete for my use and the service I have now.
They seem to think that people only switch to VOIP for longdistance, but for me all I wanted was a cheap home line with CID and voicemail. Telus can't at best offer me internet speeds half of those I get now.. Why would I switch back?
One thing is that with VOIP, if your line gets saturated, you can drop calls. This is half the reason I went with Shaw phone service, which I love btw. I have at times where my line does get saturated, and even with QoS on the router, a spike can drop a call. This happens if the TCP packet is so tiny that QoS doesn't have time to react... mostly FTP can cause this.
I have never had this issue. My router auto does it, i can be downloading torrents, ftp going and such as soon as i turn on the phone and start dialing all my other stuff drops down to like 20kb/s
Ya, I have to say my QoS has worked perfectly... The only time I had an issue was when there where problems with the connection it self, but those have been resolved now.
I do encrypt my BT traffic now, so it is no longer shaped at the lowest setting, however it still should not be as high of a priority as my VOIP traffic.
Isn't Vonage the folks with the annoying "woo hoo, woo hoo hoo..." song in their annoying commercials that got heavy rotation on ComedyCentral.com for an annoyingly long time? >:(
Quote from: Lazybones on May 25, 2006, 12:11:12 AM
Ya when Skype is giving it away for free it is hard for the average investor to see value. Also there are SOOOOO many VOIP providers now.. It is only time before they start dieing off.
Like, for example, this decade-old company:
https://www.lightyear.net/products/localres.ly
Quote from: Lazybones on May 25, 2006, 08:38:31 AM
Telus has been aggressively trying to get me to go back to them for voice and internet services. Compaired to what they used to offer they are really changing there plans, yet it doesn't compete for my use and the service I have now.
They seem to think that people only switch to VOIP for longdistance, but for me all I wanted was a cheap home line with CID and voicemail. Telus can't at best offer me internet speeds half of those I get now.. Why would I switch back?
So looks like that's Melbosa, Lazy... quick informal poll: who all here has gotten on the Shaw home phone wagon, and what are your experiences ??? -- I personally do very little LD calls, but it sure would be great to give Telus the final onefingersalute 8)
My uncle has it, they had a hell of a time when it was first setup but its now rock solid... except when I call they get a large echo so I think shaw is trying to kill vonage.
Really I have vonage and I would never turn back. I want a cheap phone service that gives me a little bit of LD since Annie (my wife) has relatives in Montreal. Other then that I hate telus. They are crap and over charge. I should not have to pay extra for every little thing. grr.. they get me angry. :D
heh
Vonage = Good
Telus = Bad
Shaw = In between & too expensive
No, I use Primus Talk Broadband (http://primus.ca/en/residential/talkbroadband/index.html) over my Shaw SOHO/ I-extream connection.
I liked the Primus rate plans better than Vonage at the time I signed up. All I wanted was a home phone replacment, long-distance was not something I use or was interested in.
Just to give you an idea of how cheap.
Last months bill was $22.10 (55min of Long Distance) after tax and this month it is $17.07 (No Long Distance).
I can pay Shaw $10 for packet priority or whatever and its still cheaper then freaking Shaw.
Alrighty, I'll weigh in as well :P We have Shaw's Cable Phone at home. $55 is quite a bit, but we were spending almost that much without making any long distance calls when we were with Telus. Now, we call my brother-in-law in Toronto, my wife's family in Vancouver, and my sister in Mississippi a fair amount. Would we be able to save money through Vonage or Primus? Perhaps. Am I happy with the service provided thus far by Shaw? Definitely. Would I switch? Comes down to price, features, and reported service response.
So, Shaw's phone includes the following:
Unlimited Local Callling - okay, that's just like a Telus phone.
Unlimited Long Distance in Canada and the US - we're probably logging two hours or more per month so far.
1000 Minutes Overseas (select countries) - this includes the Netherlands, where my dad lives at present.
Call Waiting, Call Display, Call Forwarding, Voicemail - my wife couldn't live without these :)
Call Return, Three-Way Calling - haven't used it yet.
Enhanced 911 - seems like a minor thing, except I have a child with a peanut allergy, and one of my other children might be the one calling 911, so I'd sure like it if the operator didn't need to ask the child calling what the address is.
Free Installation - was done by my wife's cousin, who happens to have won awards for installations.
Free service calls - wait until Telus hands you a bill for coming into your house to check your POTS installation.
Service Reliability - well, they claim it. So far, it's been reliable and the one outage they did have was fixed within hours *and the customer service reps could actually tell us what the problem was and an expected outage window!*
Battery Backup - the Cable Phone box that the phone line plugs into has a built-in 8-hour battery pack. Since it connects directly to the cable rather than going through a router, the phone stays working even if the power goes out in my house (Internet connectivity would fail because my router doesn't have battery back-up).
A comparable Vonage plan costs $40, but doesn't have the Enhanced 911 or the battery backup (as far as I know). Vonage also uses your broadband connection, so if it goes down your phone goes down (Shaw's Cable Phone is separate from Shaw's Internet Service). Primus Talk Broadband looks a lot cheaper, but looks to have the same possible problems as Vonage.
So yeah, I pay more in the hopes that my line is more reliable. Don't know if Primus and Vonage charge any network access fees or any other "extra administrative fees", but Shaw doesn't.
Heh, summed up nicely by Shaw here: http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/DigitalPhone/Low-CostVoIPServices.htm (http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/DigitalPhone/Low-CostVoIPServices.htm).
Yes, I know that it's marketing spin to try and convince people to pay for the higher-cost service. Still, it's not much more than the comparable Vonage plan and they do raise a point about both the Enhanced 911 (if you're like me and have kids) and the continued connection during a power outage.
Don't compare Shaw's price to the price of the plan you're on now, though. That's apples and oranges. If Shaw's plan has way more than you need then you're right to say it's overpriced for you. If you actually use more than 500 minutes a month (20 minutes a day? Our phone probably sees almost an hour a day use), then comparing Shaw's plan and Vonage's more expensive plan shows that Vonage has the edge in price but Shaw has a couple of feel-good features.
The funny thing is that Primus DID offer Enhanced 911 but it appears that with the new laws they can't..
I guess only hard wired, non movable VOIP installations can have Enhanced 911 now. The Primus / Vonage hardware can be moved by the user so they fall under a different rule now.. If you where one of the few that signed up before X date you get to keep Enhanced 911.
A heavy longdistance user who needs a highly reliable system would be best off with the Shaw solution.
Those of use who use our home line instead of burning minutes on our cell phones can get away with the cheap Vonage / Primus options.
Vonage and Primus also make great, 2nd or maybe 3rd voice line options when you have a house full of people that hog the phone.
As far as service fees I posted my full bill costs after tax.
Current Account Summary to Apr 30
Wireless Service 0.00
Local Phone Service 0.00
Talk Broadband Service 15.95
Internet Service 0.00
GST (89139-5618RT) 1.12
TOTAL CURRENT BALANCE 17.07
O and I get airmiles
PRIMUS Canada - AIR MILES Reward Program Summary
Reward miles earned for this month 3
Total reward miles earned this month 3
Previous reward miles earned with PRIMUS Canada 155
Total reward miles earned to date with PRIMUS Canada 158
Primus Rates (http://primus.ca/en/residential/talkbroadband/index.html)
The UNLIMITED (US/CA) Primus plan is only $29.95, not sure you would use up the difference on overseas calls, Primus longdistance rates are still cheapr than Telus in most cases.
Compaired to Shaw you loose
- E911
- included overseas minutes
- Built in Battery backup..
Again if you are using the long distance the Shaw plan is a rather good package.. Also you don't have to deal with two companies if you have line quality issues.
While Thorin can justify the cost with all the long distance and what not, the most i have every used is 297 minutes. Im on the $20 a month plan that gives me the 500 minutes, what I want is the same style of package from Shaw. They are trying to sell me something thats far more then I ever need, while vonage is selling what I need and getting my service.
The 911 functionality doesnt sway me in the least. I have enhanced 911 with my cellphone and Alysons cell phone. Sure i get 911 with Vonage, and I suppose in a pinch i would use it first, but really, its truely not a big deal for me. Family people, sure, kid eats some Comet, im sure that you need it.
It really comes down to pure cost for me. I can not justify 3x the price.
Oh, one feature I'd like to know if Shaw has that I love about vonage is my voice mails get forwarded to my gmail account.
Stock down to $13 today. Hopefully it hangs in, I would hate to see this be the end of a great company selling a fantastic product.
Quote from: Shayne on May 25, 2006, 03:49:31 PM
The 911 functionality doesnt sway me in the least. I have enhanced 911 with my cellphone and Alysons cell phone. Sure i get 911 with Vonage, and I suppose in a pinch i would use it first, but really, its truely not a big deal for me. Family people, sure, kid eats some Comet, im sure that you need it.
Funny you mention not really needing the "911" service... Some of the results of
this Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=dial+911+and+die+no+duty) might be some eye-opening info. re. that particular service. :-\
And hey I thought Vonage isn't available in Edmonchuk -- are you saying it's cheaper than Shaw if you don't need the LD minutes?
Vonage IS available in Edmonton, ive been on it for about a year now. Shaw does near infinite minutes, same as Vonage but its also more expensive then Vonage. I dont use the minutes so im on a decreased plan. If Shaw were to offer a decreased plan at decreased cost, id probably jump to them.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 25, 2006, 04:04:07 PM
And hey I thought Vonage isn't available in Edmonchuk -- are you saying it's cheaper than Shaw if you don't need the LD minutes?
Yes, Vonage is cheaper Shaw and Primus is even cheaper than vonage, offering unlimited Local calling and uses the same technology / hardware as Vonage.
Yup, Shayne, for you Vonage or even Primus are clear winners over Shaw.
Quote from: Thorin on May 25, 2006, 02:10:33 PM
Alrighty, I'll weigh in as well :P We have Shaw's Cable Phone at home. $55 is quite a bit, but we were spending almost that much without making any long distance calls when we were with Telus. Now, we call my brother-in-law in Toronto, my wife's family in Vancouver, and my sister in Mississippi a fair amount. Would we be able to save money through Vonage or Primus? Perhaps. Am I happy with the service provided thus far by Shaw? Definitely. Would I switch? Comes down to price, features, and reported service response.
So, Shaw's phone includes the following:
Unlimited Local Callling - okay, that's just like a Telus phone.
Unlimited Long Distance in Canada and the US - we're probably logging two hours or more per month so far.
1000 Minutes Overseas (select countries) - this includes the Netherlands, where my dad lives at present.
Call Waiting, Call Display, Call Forwarding, Voicemail - my wife couldn't live without these :)
Call Return, Three-Way Calling - haven't used it yet.
Enhanced 911 - seems like a minor thing, except I have a child with a peanut allergy, and one of my other children might be the one calling 911, so I'd sure like it if the operator didn't need to ask the child calling what the address is.
Free Installation - was done by my wife's cousin, who happens to have won awards for installations.
Free service calls - wait until Telus hands you a bill for coming into your house to check your POTS installation.
Service Reliability - well, they claim it. So far, it's been reliable and the one outage they did have was fixed within hours *and the customer service reps could actually tell us what the problem was and an expected outage window!*
Battery Backup - the Cable Phone box that the phone line plugs into has a built-in 8-hour battery pack. Since it connects directly to the cable rather than going through a router, the phone stays working even if the power goes out in my house (Internet connectivity would fail because my router doesn't have battery back-up).
A comparable Vonage plan costs $40, but doesn't have the Enhanced 911 or the battery backup (as far as I know). Vonage also uses your broadband connection, so if it goes down your phone goes down (Shaw's Cable Phone is separate from Shaw's Internet Service). Primus Talk Broadband looks a lot cheaper, but looks to have the same possible problems as Vonage.
So yeah, I pay more in the hopes that my line is more reliable. Don't know if Primus and Vonage charge any network access fees or any other "extra administrative fees", but Shaw doesn't.
My reasoning exactly Thorin!
http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/DigitalPhone/21FrequentlyAskedQuestions.htm
Quote
17. Can I get an unlisted number?
Yes. There are two types of unlisted numbers you can choose from: non-listed and non-published numbers. Non-listed numbers are not shown in the phone book but are available through directory assistance (411) inquiries. Non-published numbers are not shown in the phone book and are not available through directory assistance. In addition, if you have a non-published number your name will not show up on call display. There is no extra charge to have a non-listed or a non-published number.
Interesting... I pay like $3.00 or $4.00 per month for a non-published #.
And in the interest of fairness, Primus Canada's comparitive info can be found here:
http://primus.ca/en/residential/homephone/index.html
Just a note on how that works with Primus.. They use a random outgoing number that can't be called back.. Sort of like when you use a line at work.
Makes it hard for people to call you back. Might be useful if you don't want anyone to know your calling but I didn't like it.
My two cents are this.. Shaw is comparable to Telus. When you add the numbers up Shaw is a good deal. I personally use Shaw and haven't had any problems.
I have people I call in Halifax, Ottawa, Vancouver and Scotland. My gf has family in Sask, Hawaii and Arizona. The long distance alone pays for itself.
As for Vonage and the like. If they work for you then use em. Really that's what it comes down to. But Shaw is VoIP but it is more of a phone provider like Telus. Vonage just wants you to piggy back off your ISP so they don't need the infrastructure in place..
Then again that's just my way of looking at it...
SYL
Zap
Officially Shaw calls it a "Cable Phone". I wonder if it really is just a standard VOIP phone with proprietary hardware, though. Keep in mind that if Shaw drops your Internet connection, it is possible to still have your "Cable Phone" working. But that could just be that it's a VOIP system with its own MAC address on the network with QoS turned on for it, or some-such. I'll have to ask my cousin who installed it :P Or maybe just a buddy who's going through Telecom.
Shaw does imply more reliable phone service than Primus or Vonage, but it's hard to quantify that claim because so many people have reliable broadband through various ISPs.
I have to say, though, if I were in Shayne's shoes (don't call long distance a lot, don't even use a lot of minutes local) I'd make the same choice as he did.
...on the subject of Voice Over IP, PC digit phones, etc.
Wow, check this out!
http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=213
Quote
This week, SIPphone (http://sipphone.com/) is releasing Gizmo Project 2.0* (http://gizmoproject.com/download) (note the asterisk), our popular free VoIP software for high-quality, easy-to-use PC calls. Usually, the star-shaped character means there's an exception such as "supply limited", "annual contract required", or some other tiny-print qualifier that makes the offer seem not as good as it initially appears. This time, however, the asterisk symbol stands for something positive - Asterisk support.
With Asterisk, a simple Linux PC can be transformed into a customizable phone system for a school, business or even an advanced home system. I spoke with the original author Mark Spencer and he estimates there are more than 250,000 installations of Asterisk. Asterisk can be complex to set up, so companies have sprung up that provide point-and-click setups such as Switchvox (http://www.switchvox.com/) (which was founded by former MP3.com personnel).
Gizmo Project 2.0 now has support for Asterisk, making it possible to easily configure it (http://www.gizmoproject.com/setupasterisk) to remotely receive and dial calls from from an Asterisk system on any net-connected PC. It's nothing new to use software to accept Asterisk calls. What IS new is to be able to do it reliably. Oftentimes, Asterisk calls get blocked by routers, NATs and firewalls using other SIP software, so the phone rings but one or both parties can't hear each other.
press release:
http://www.gizmoproject.com/press-asterisk-compatible.html
"VOIP Watch" - This blog focuses on the fast-moving VOIP industry:
http://andyabramson.blogs.com/voipwatch/2006/05/52000_in_canada.html