Righteous Wrath Online Community

General => Lobby => Topic started by: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 08:51:20 AM

Title: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 08:51:20 AM
So two of our members go on vacation and you guys quite posting???? :P  Where is everyone?
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Lazybones on February 14, 2008, 10:31:16 AM
Working....
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Bixby on February 14, 2008, 10:47:35 AM
Not much to say. Life is good.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 11:02:55 AM
Working....?  Lazy, by name definition you couldn't possibly be working that hard!
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 11:03:11 AM
Quote from: Bixby on February 14, 2008, 10:47:35 AM
Not much to say. Life is good.

Trade ya!
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Bixby on February 14, 2008, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 11:03:11 AM
Quote from: Bixby on February 14, 2008, 10:47:35 AM
Not much to say. Life is good.
Trade ya!
Seriously. I almost feel guilty things are so good. Work is fine, no more extended hours, everyone is healthy. I am playing about 5 board games a week, I get to play Poker at least once a week, and last Friday I caught a natural Royal Flush to win the tournament. Some days you're the seal, some days you're the club. I guess it is my time to be the club. :D
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: CowGirl on February 14, 2008, 12:21:18 PM
I'm dealing with a house full of sickies.  And looks like I be coming down with the a nasty cold now too. :(
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Melbosa on February 14, 2008, 01:36:44 PM
Well at least there is some life in these boards yet!
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: CowGirl on February 14, 2008, 03:21:49 PM
Now I am playing on the new puter my darling hubby got me for V-day!
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 14, 2008, 09:56:50 PM
Sorry, been busy setting up my two computers.  Dell had everything installed, but not the way I'd install it (why would you run XP with PAE in a system with only 2GB of RAM?!).  I ended up wiping both machines and re-installing the base software that came with it, then installing all the other software we wanted on there (Firefox, Google Desktop, WinRAR, Windows Live Messenger, GoogleTalk, iTunes, Windows Media Player 10, etc), then setting all six-per-machine-times-two-machines of the user accounts up with all of their usernames and passwords remembered for those apps.  I'm *almost* done.

Once I'm done the settings I can actually move the physical machines around to where they're going to sit...  And then I'll be all done!  Well, except for copying music and pictures from the old drive to the new machines.  But that's mostly automated.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2008, 10:18:56 PM
Quotewhy would you run XP with PAE in a system with only 2GB of RAM?!)
Don't you get stuck with only 800 or so MB of usuable ram when pae is disabled?
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 14, 2008, 11:03:52 PM
Didn't we have a whole large discussion about that?  Although we never did figure out just how much of the RAM was reserved for critical kernel files, it was made quite clear that PAE is used to address physical memory (RAM) above the 4GB barrier.  If there's only 2GB of physical memory in the machine, then there's no point in enabling PAE (because there's no RAM above 4GB to address).  And PAE does itself consume memory in the kernel's virtual address space, as the physical memory needs to get mapped.

More to the point, if the kernel is only reserving 100MB of physical memory, then 1.9GB of that 2GB of RAM in the machine is usable by the programs running.  Conversely, if the kernel is reserving 1.9GB for itself, than the programs running only have 100MB of physical memory (and there'll be *huge* swapping going on).
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2008, 02:02:28 AM
I'm just remembering how the linux kernel will only see 800 or so MB of actual physical memory if you don't have all of the BIGMEM and possibly PAE options enabled. It doesnt actually reserve the mem, it just doesn't see it or use it, so it can use the space for other things in the 1GB range.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 15, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 14, 2008, 09:56:50 PM
why would you run XP with PAE in a system with only 2GB of RAM?

Quote from: Tom on February 15, 2008, 02:02:28 AM
I'm just remembering how the linux kernel will only see 800 or so MB of actual physical memory if you don't have all of the BIGMEM and possibly PAE options enabled.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about Linux.  To be clear, the term "PAE" is used for both the physical capability of a processor to address physical memory above 4GB and support for that physical capability within the operating system.  The processor I have is PAE-capable.  But there's no point to making my OS (WinXP) use the processor's PAE capability because there's no actual physical memory greater than 4GB on the board.  I'd wager that the same holds true for Linux and PAE capability.  I have no idea what the BIGMEM option does for you, though.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Darren Dirt on February 15, 2008, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 15, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 14, 2008, 09:56:50 PM
why would you run XP with PAE in a system with only 2GB of RAM?

Quote from: Tom on February 15, 2008, 02:02:28 AM
I'm just remembering how the linux kernel will only see 800 or so MB of actual physical memory if you don't have all of the BIGMEM and possibly PAE options enabled.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about Linux.  To be clear, the term "PAE" is used for both the physical capability of a processor to address physical memory above 4GB and support for that physical capability within the operating system.  The processor I have is PAE-capable.  But there's no point to making my OS (WinXP) use the processor's PAE capability because there's no actual physical memory greater than 4GB on the board.  I'd wager that the same holds true for Linux and PAE capability.  I have no idea what the BIGMEM option does for you, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_Windowing_Extensions ?
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2008, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 15, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 14, 2008, 09:56:50 PM
why would you run XP with PAE in a system with only 2GB of RAM?

Quote from: Tom on February 15, 2008, 02:02:28 AM
I'm just remembering how the linux kernel will only see 800 or so MB of actual physical memory if you don't have all of the BIGMEM and possibly PAE options enabled.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about Linux.  To be clear, the term "PAE" is used for both the physical capability of a processor to address physical memory above 4GB and support for that physical capability within the operating system.  The processor I have is PAE-capable.  But there's no point to making my OS (WinXP) use the processor's PAE capability because there's no actual physical memory greater than 4GB on the board.  I'd wager that the same holds true for Linux and PAE capability.  I have no idea what the BIGMEM option does for you, though.
I just assume XP has the same limitation.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 16, 2008, 02:52:57 PM
What are you attempting to answer or ask with that link, Darren?
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Mr. Analog on February 16, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
I can see that we were missed haha!

How are the new computers working out for the fam?

P.S. I think my server died, so I'm going to need the parts anyway hahaha.
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Darren Dirt on February 17, 2008, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: Thorin on February 16, 2008, 02:52:57 PM
What are you attempting to answer or ask with that link, Darren?

Just wondering if PAE was what is described at that Wiklink.

Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 15, 2008, 03:57:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_Windowing_Extensions ?


Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Tom on February 17, 2008, 03:17:27 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 17, 2008, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: Thorin on February 16, 2008, 02:52:57 PM
What are you attempting to answer or ask with that link, Darren?

Just wondering if PAE was what is described at that Wiklink.

Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 15, 2008, 03:57:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_Windowing_Extensions ?
Nope. PAE is a hardware level extension to the ia32 archetecture. AWE is some win32 api to let a 32bit app exceed the normal windows limits (4G or less per app).
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 18, 2008, 04:25:00 PM
Quote from: Tom on February 15, 2008, 09:41:47 PM
I just assume XP has the same limitation [in memory usage as Linux].

Uhh...  I really don't know what to say to that post.  Really?  You would assume that something that happens in one or more flavours of Linux also happens in a particular flavour of Windows?

Quote from: Tom on February 17, 2008, 03:17:27 PM
Nope. PAE is a hardware level extension to the ia32 archetecture. AWE is some win32 api to let a 32bit app exceed the normal windows limits (4G or less per app).

The term "PAE" refers to both the hardware level extension and the operating system support for that extension.  As I stated in an earlier post:

Quote from: Thorin on February 15, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
the term "PAE" is used for both the physical capability of a processor to address physical memory above 4GB and support for that physical capability within the operating system.

Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 17, 2008, 11:18:19 AM
Quote from: Thorin on February 16, 2008, 02:52:57 PM
What are you attempting to answer or ask with that link, Darren?

Just wondering if PAE was what is described at that Wiklink.

PAE allows your CPU to address (see) more than 4GB of physical memory (RAM), and allows 32-bit Windows XP (and Vista) to use that addressable physical memory.  Each running process within Windows is still limited to 4GB of virtual address space (2GB for the process, 2GB for the kernel).  But with, say, 8GB of RAM in your machine 3 separate processes and the kernel would each get 2GB of actual physical memory for their virtual address space, meaning that none of their virtual address space needs to be placed in the swap file on the hard drive.  I assume you know enough about computers to understand why not using the swap file helps...

Quote from: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796.aspx
The Physical Address Extension (PAE) allows 32-bit Windows systems to use more than 4 GB of physical memory.
[..]
With PAE enabled, the operating system moves from two-level linear address translation to three-level address translation. The extra layer of translation provides access to physical memory beyond 4 GB. Instead of a linear address being split into three separate fields for indexing into memory tables, it is split into four separate fields: a 2-bit field, two 9-bit fields, and a 12-bit field that corresponds to the page size implemented by Intel Architecture (4 KB).

PAE, 4-gigabyte tuning (4GT), and Address Windowing Extensions (AWE) serve different purposes and can be used independently of each other:

  • PAE allows the operating system to access and use more than 4 GB of physical memory.
  • 4GT extends the 32-bit user virtual address space from 2 GB to up to 3 GB.
  • AWE is a set of APIs that allows a process to allocate nonpaged physical memory and then dynamically map portions of this memory into the virtual address space of the process.

AWE allows a non-kernel process to directly access that physical memory above the 4GB level.  This is a big deal because it allows your application to have more than the 2GB of virtual address space it normally gets.  Imagine not getting an OutOfMemoryException when you try to ask for another spot in memory for a UINT when you've used up all 2GB of your virtual address space...

So no, AWE and PAE aren't the same thing.  Yes, they both have to do with memory, but that's the only connection.  We have a whole thread on this, too:

http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php/topic,6086.0.html
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Thorin on February 18, 2008, 10:30:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 16, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
How are the new computers working out for the fam?

Everything's going good so far.  Lots of time spent setting 'em up just right :(  I think I'm too picky.  Another one of my kids now has an email address...  I figure they need email and Windows Live Messenger and GoogleTalk as soon as they start reading in school :)

I've been copying files off the old machine's drive, 100+GB of pictures, music, movies, D&D files, etc.  Eventually all the setup will be done.  Today I altered Windows Live Messenger with MessPatch to hide all the extra junk and installed AdBlock Plus.  MessPatch applies to all users on the machine (no choice to do it per user) and AdBlock Plus gets installed per user (no choice to do it for all users).  Of course I wanted to apply MessPatch differently for the different users, and ABP across the board <sigh>.  Man, having to do it six times per computer times two computers sucks...

Got the screensaver for all users on both computers (again, set per user so I had to log in twelve separate times) to the My Pictures Slideshow.  The kids love seeing random pics go by.  We might have to edit the list a bit :P

Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 16, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
P.S. I think my server died, so I'm going to need the parts anyway hahaha.

That sucks :(  You got everything you need to get it back to running condition?
Title: Re: Where have all the posters gone?
Post by: Mr. Analog on February 19, 2008, 11:11:41 PM
Quote from: Thorin on February 18, 2008, 10:30:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 16, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
P.S. I think my server died, so I'm going to need the parts anyway hahaha.

That sucks :(  You got everything you need to get it back to running condition?

I should, though I never backed up my PDC to a secondary so I'm going to have to rebuild my domain somehow...