Do you own an iPhone? Did you read the entire iPhone Software License Agreement before you started using it? Here it is: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf)
It's 159 PAGES LONG!
Christ almighty.
edit: fixed bolding
Quote from: Thorin on May 18, 2010, 10:23:33 AM
Do you own an iPhone? Did you read the entire iPhone Software License Agreement before you started using it? Here it is: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf (http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf)
It's 159 PAGES LONG]/b]!
Christ almighty.
"I'm Steve Jobs, and I approve this
messagefaustiancontract"
The does that include the terms of use for the App store that frequently get updated? Also to put things in perspective how long are the ones for Palm, Android and Nokia phones?
I do not know how long the Software License Agreements are for other phones from other companies. I do know that in the first eight pages, there's mention of the Adobe End User License Agreement in this one. I also know that NO ONE bothers reading 159 pages in tiny type before starting to use their phone, EVEN IF it's included as a booklet with the phone (or should that be "book"?).
Just because Dodges spontaneously combust in the driveway (http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/VRDB-BDRV/SEARCH/RecallDetail.aspx?lang=eng&mk=2256!2444!5115!1849!4864!3714!6400&md=CARAVAN&fy=0&ty=9999&ft=&ls=0&sy=0&rn=2000215&cf=SearchResult&pg=-1) and GMs have trouble stopping at low speeds (http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/VRDB-BDRV/SEARCH/RecallDetail.aspx?lang=eng&mk=6128!1896!3229!4804!5359!12836&md=SUBURBAN&fy=0&ty=9999&ft=&ls=0&sy=0&rn=2004395&cf=SearchResult&pg=-1) doesn't mean we should ignore Toyota's sticky pedals (http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/VRDB-BDRV/SEARCH/RecallDetail.aspx?lang=eng&mk=2474!2734!10341&md=CAMRY&fy=0&ty=9999&ft=&ls=0&sy=0&rn=2010012&cf=SearchResult&pg=-1) or consider it "normal". In that same vein, 159 pages of small print is ridiculous and should be considered completely unenforceable rather than suggesting it's "normal".
I read about this before, there needs to be a better word for "exorbitant".
http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/
Ha well I bet you installed flash player without reading the fine print as well
282 pages for flash player 9.0 othe adobe products are just as bad.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 18, 2010, 07:54:28 PM
I read about this before, there needs to be a better word for "exorbitant".
http://thesaurus.com/browse/exorbitant
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 01:02:16 AM
http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/
Ha well I bet you installed flash player without reading the fine print as well
282 pages for flash player 9.0 othe adobe products are just as bad.
Unless the parts in Russian or Chinese say anything different than the parts in English I'd say it's more around 6 pages. That said the iPhone PDF is more like 5 pages. I've seen longer documents come with bottles of scotch.
The spin on all this relied heavily on me not wanting to open a PDF LOL
Hmm, egg on my face, I read the first three pages and then assumed the rest of the agreement was all in English and simply counted the pages. Thanks for noticing, Mr. A.
Yes indeed, it's only four and a little bit pages of tiny, tiny text. So tiny, I had to expand it to 150% just to be able to squint-read it.
So nothing to see here.. move a long.
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 10:29:36 AM
So nothing to see here.. move a long.
But still, Apple is still hellbent on world domination ... move along...
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 19, 2010, 01:25:25 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 10:29:36 AM
So nothing to see here.. move a long.
But still, Apple is still hellbent on world domination ... move along...
And Google is not? Who hosts your primary internet Search, Email, IM... and has its own phone platform, ad network.....
Yeah, but they try not to be evil.
Steve Jobs... not so much. --> proof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU)<--
;)
Everything is evil... except me and possibly Gordon Freeman
Google may not try to be evil but they are so large it doesn't seem like there is much control...
- buzz launches with no privacy exposing a bunch of stuff... SURPRISE
- Google starts WiFi scanning to collect SSIDs and MAC addresses for location services and some how also does packet captures on open networks?
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Google may not try to be evil but they are so large it doesn't seem like there is much control...
- buzz launches with no privacy exposing a bunch of stuff... SURPRISE
- Google starts WiFi scanning to collect SSIDs and MAC addresses for location services and some how also does packet captures on open networks?
The first is a case of not planning very well.. Facebook is far worse in this regard most times. Sure they are learning, but man...
And the Second isn't any kind of privacy breach what so ever. ANYONE can drive by and see your wifi APs beacon and SSID (if its not hidden). You yourself are saying to the world "See my ap? Isn't it lovely?" just by turning it on. Thats how it works. Its not like google was cracking the networks and spying on you. Also they didn't just start. I assume Google Street View has been doing it since day one. And why not? It saves a trip. Two birds with one stone (street view pictures, and geo location data).
Quote from: Tom on May 19, 2010, 10:08:12 PM
And the Second isn't any kind of privacy breach what so ever. ANYONE can drive by and see your wifi APs beacon and SSID (if its not hidden). You yourself are saying to the world "See my ap? Isn't it lovely?" just by turning it on. Thats how it works. Its not like google was cracking the networks and spying on you. Also they didn't just start. I assume Google Street View has been doing it since day one. And why not? It saves a trip. Two birds with one stone (street view pictures, and geo location data).
I'm no Google apologist, but they were the ones who exposed that they had collected the WiFi information, they have also elected to remove this collected information rather thoroughly. For some reason the German government wants Google to hand over the data and not delete it (a little curious in itself).
I can see why Appleheads and Googleoids fight all the time, Apple and Google have pretty different philosophies when it comes to doing business. Google wants to index the world, Apple wants to make its own world for its devices to live in.
I think what bugs some people about Apple is that they seem obsessed with control, to me this makes sense given how out of control they were in the late 90s.
I think what bugs some people about Google is that they collect a lot of information and are sometimes sloppy with how they expose it, to me this makes sense because of growing concern over privacy issues.
Bottom line. Which is better? Who cares. Does it matter? Nope.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 20, 2010, 07:08:48 AM
Bottom line. Which is better? Who cares. Does it matter? Nope, as long as Microsoft's market share continues to shrink.
FYP ;)
Quote from: Tom on May 19, 2010, 10:08:12 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Google may not try to be evil but they are so large it doesn't seem like there is much control...
- buzz launches with no privacy exposing a bunch of stuff... SURPRISE
- Google starts WiFi scanning to collect SSIDs and MAC addresses for location services and some how also does packet captures on open networks?
The first is a case of not planning very well.. Facebook is far worse in this regard most times. Sure they are learning, but man...
And the Second isn't any kind of privacy breach what so ever. ANYONE can drive by and see your wifi APs beacon and SSID (if its not hidden). You yourself are saying to the world "See my ap? Isn't it lovely?" just by turning it on. Thats how it works. Its not like google was cracking the networks and spying on you. Also they didn't just start. I assume Google Street View has been doing it since day one. And why not? It saves a trip. Two birds with one stone (street view pictures, and geo location data).
You didn't read it, they didn't JUST collect the SSID and MAC, they where doing full packet captures of the network data.. Now sure a smart user can just turn on encryption, but how do you accidentally SNOOP a network like that?
http://gizmodo.com/5539395/google-snooped-on-you-for-three-years-but-is-profoundly-sorry
Think of it this way, you go into a library and start using wifi, google is driving by and captures your forum password, fragments of photos on your facebook account and some of your IM chat, then stores it...
I think The Register has treated this subject matter very well in one of their articles: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/18/google_street_view_wifi_analysis/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/18/google_street_view_wifi_analysis/).
Essentially, it seems that the software engineers did know what their software did, and perhaps the project managers did too, but that none of them actually bothered to think through the privacy concerns that might entail.
Quote from: Thorin on May 20, 2010, 11:41:39 AM
Essentially, it seems that the software engineers did know what their software did, and perhaps the project managers did too, but that none of them actually bothered to think through the privacy concerns that might entail.
An open WiFi is no more private than an open window.
Quote from: Lazybones on May 20, 2010, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 19, 2010, 10:08:12 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on May 19, 2010, 09:30:57 PM
Google may not try to be evil but they are so large it doesn't seem like there is much control...
- buzz launches with no privacy exposing a bunch of stuff... SURPRISE
- Google starts WiFi scanning to collect SSIDs and MAC addresses for location services and some how also does packet captures on open networks?
The first is a case of not planning very well.. Facebook is far worse in this regard most times. Sure they are learning, but man...
And the Second isn't any kind of privacy breach what so ever. ANYONE can drive by and see your wifi APs beacon and SSID (if its not hidden). You yourself are saying to the world "See my ap? Isn't it lovely?" just by turning it on. Thats how it works. Its not like google was cracking the networks and spying on you. Also they didn't just start. I assume Google Street View has been doing it since day one. And why not? It saves a trip. Two birds with one stone (street view pictures, and geo location data).
You didn't read it, they didn't JUST collect the SSID and MAC, they where doing full packet captures of the network data.. Now sure a smart user can just turn on encryption, but how do you accidentally SNOOP a network like that?
http://gizmodo.com/5539395/google-snooped-on-you-for-three-years-but-is-profoundly-sorry
Think of it this way, you go into a library and start using wifi, google is driving by and captures your forum password, fragments of photos on your facebook account and some of your IM chat, then stores it...
Yes, technically a pcap file of everything they captured, as they were driving down the road (probably faster than the speed limit, from what I've heard), was not deleted. But from what I read, they didn't even use that data. All that was actually used was the ap identification information and some gps coords.