Quote from: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386343,00.asp
Reports by PCMag's Lance Ulanoff* and others indicate that Windows 8 may take a hard left turn down a cliff with a complete
UI redesign that will dumb down the interface but make it more practical for tablets and phones.
From what I've heard, this new approach, which mimics the iPhone and Android OS GUI as well as the Phone 7 GUI, will essentially kill desktop computing once and for all?at least, for Microsoft.
The description was an eye-roller and then a shocker, as the demo of this turkey turned up with a pop-up on-screen keyboard, which is the way the keyboard crops up with a phone or tablet. I'm not sure what Microsoft is thinking, but a typical desktop computer actually has a real keyboard. You know, Microsoft even makes such a device. I'm using one now.
I've been waiting for quite some time to see Microsoft do something incredibly stupid that would open the door so Linux could waltz in and take over the desktop. Right now, there is a mistaken belief that Linux will never be a desktop OS. I disagree. With a few lucky breaks and a misstep by Microsoft, Linux could instantly be on every desktop. From what I hear about Windows 8, this moment may be at hand.
The personal computing dominant metaphor is that of a "desktop." This means folders and obvious navigation help. A mouse, a real keyboard, and windowing software are all part of an evolved package. This model of computing has pretty much evolved to its end-point, in much the same way that home appliances and automobiles have evolved.
Today's car, for example, drives nearly the same way as a car from the 1930s. The early years of experimentation have been over for decades, and now a car is pretty much the same no matter what model. Attempts to have push button transmissions and joystick steering wheels have come and gone. Everything that's happened since the 1930s is only a tweak.
This is the same for computers. If people think that putting an iPad/iPhone interface, designed specifically for touch use on a small screen, is appropriate for normal, big-screen, mouse-centric desktop computing, they are putting Microsoft in grave risk.
*
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386290,00.asp
From another thing I read the "NEW UI" is mostly for touch enabled devices, a tweaked windows 7 like UI will also be present.
Microsoft finds own foot, pulls trigger (five "deal-breaking flaws" in Windows8 -- and WOW, I completely concur!)
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/96249-5-deal-breaking-flaws-in-windows-8
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/96249-5-deal-breaking-flaws-in-windows-8/2
:shouldastoppedatXP (http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/10/windows-xp/):
Yeah, I think it's gonna end up as the Windows ME of the current generation...
Still, early days so who knows for sure, at any rate Windows 7 suits me just fine.
Conversely, Windows XP is becoming ... cumbersome. I'm finding getting things done is slower in XP now that I've been more or less 100% in 7 for more than a year now.
The only things I still run in XP is Photoshop/BitTorrent
So not to harp on this but somewhat tangentially Ubuntu came up with its Unity GUI a while back which was supposed to be a touch friendly interface, of course many people who use Ubuntu found this concept didn't really mesh well with the desktop, so it's interesting that the actual touch friendly version of Ubuntu is going to use a wholly new GUI, so where does that leave Unity and why am I talking about it in the Windows 8 thread?
Windows 8 is supposedly going to be a one-metaphor to rule them all interface (Metro), but I just don't see it working all that well on the desktop. It sort of reminds me of the last major XBox Live update that made everything harder to find / more clicks deep, sure there's less stuff to clutter up each view but sometimes you want to see lots of stuff in one screen, especially if the goal of the screen is to find something quickly and use it. I'm not saying the start menu is good, but it's better than shoving giant boxes around the screen.
Thoughts?
Thought.
Windows 7 support has been extended till 2020 http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/23/windows-support-will-last-forever/
8 years! Well we know what the defacto OS is going to be for a while.
Hah! Just like XP turned out to be supported for almost ever.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on February 24, 2012, 03:25:43 PM
Thoughts?
What about accessibility? Was thinking about ALT tags the other day, reading XKCD is half as fun on your mobile phone because there isn't really any "hover your mouse over the image" equivalent.
Ditto for Windows8/etc. when it comes to the flexibility of functionality available through 2-button mousing, it's definitely a "dumbing down" of the UI if it becomes reduced to only click-or-hold-down events, it would (as you pointed out with XBL) require a lot more levels of menuing to do stuff, reducing the context-sensitive handiness of a lot of well-written apps.
Hope that kinda made sense, pretty mentally drained, happy Friday every1!
Quote from: Darren Dirt on February 24, 2012, 05:43:33 PM
What about accessibility? Was thinking about ALT tags the other day, reading XKCD is half as fun on your mobile phone because there isn't really any "hover your mouse over the image" equivalent.
http://m.xkcd.org/ <- alt text displayed but click instead of hover.
http://xk3d.xkcd.com/ <-- OOOOOo 3D
http://uni.xkcd.com/ <-- Unix shell?
You get only one button on your mouse, you don't need any more!
Eventually he gave in. But until that time, anyone using a Mac didn't have to worry about learning the difference between left- and right-clicking.
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1139063--technology-writers-give-microsoft-a-thumbs-up-as-windows-8-released-for-public-testing
#unexpected
From what I've been reading there may never actually be ARM support
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 08:58:06 AM
From what I've been reading there may never actually be ARM support
Hm? They have apparently already shown off the ARM support, but you likely won't be able to buy a copy for yourself. Almost certainly it'll be OEM only, and the ARM versions will be locked down harder than iOS devices.
I heard the opposite, that it was going to be delayed for now. I know MS has been honking about support for a while but I don't think there's been any demo?
I could be wrong, last time I was reading about it was the end of January.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
I heard the opposite, that it was going to be delayed for now. I know MS has been honking about support for a while but I don't think there's been any demo?
I could be wrong, last time I was reading about it was the end of January.
That last thing I saw on the ARM version was very recent, but all it noted was that the ARM version currently does not support domain features. IE it is more like Home / Pro not Business / Enterprise versions
Ahh okay.
I was reading some of the reactions this morning, people have already found a way to modify the demo version to go straight to desktop (otherwise it's an extra click after boot apparently).
Quote from: Lazybones on March 01, 2012, 02:14:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
I heard the opposite, that it was going to be delayed for now. I know MS has been honking about support for a while but I don't think there's been any demo?
I could be wrong, last time I was reading about it was the end of January.
That last thing I saw on the ARM version was very recent, but all it noted was that the ARM version currently does not support domain features. IE it is more like Home / Pro not Business / Enterprise versions
What is ARM? And is there LEG and FOOT and HAND as well? (or is that gonna be in SP1?)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 01, 2012, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: Lazybones on March 01, 2012, 02:14:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:47:45 PM
I heard the opposite, that it was going to be delayed for now. I know MS has been honking about support for a while but I don't think there's been any demo?
I could be wrong, last time I was reading about it was the end of January.
That last thing I saw on the ARM version was very recent, but all it noted was that the ARM version currently does not support domain features. IE it is more like Home / Pro not Business / Enterprise versions
What is ARM? And is there LEG and FOOT and HAND as well? (or is that gonna be in SP1?)
it's a CPU architecture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
Used in smaller / low power devices
23Jan2012: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/115003-microsoft-quietly-kills-off-the-desktop-pc
"death of the desktop pc"
29Feb2012: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/120497-windows-8-wont-kill-the-desktop-but-dont-worry-were-still-screwed
"non-death of the desktop pc"
so I'm confused, somebody tell me what to think plz. thx.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 01, 2012, 03:47:37 PM
so I'm confused, somebody tell me what to think plz. thx.
GIVE THORIN ALL YOUR MONEY
^ /Ballmervoice (http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ballmer-reaper-windows-7-640x353.jpg)
Well if all else fails: throw a chair at it
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 03:54:59 PM
Well if all else fails: throw a chair at it
And scream: MONKEYS! MONKEYS! MONKEYS!
*cough*
I mean: DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPER!
from http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1139063--technology-writers-give-microsoft-a-thumbs-up-as-windows-8-released-for-public-testing
Quote
The New York Times' David Pogue (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/a-review-of-the-windows-8-beta/)has this to say: "I?ve been using Windows 8 for about a week on a prototype Samsung tablet. And I have got to tell you, I?m excited. For two reasons. First, because Windows 8 works fluidly and briskly on touch screens; it?s a natural fit. And second, it attains that success through a design that?s all Microsoft?s own. This business of the tiles is not at all what Apple designed for iOS, or that Google copied in Android."
Yikes! Isn't Pogue like a demi-god in the Apple fanboi world (http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1296.html)? I recall his face in a LOT of "Joy Of Tech (https://www.google.com/search?q=joy+of+tech+david+pogue)" comics. (Or maybe he's just a big fan, himself, of JoT (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/21/joy-of-iphone-tech/).)
Either way, now I'm curious what he'll say (in comparison) about Mountain Lion (http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1654.html).
On a personal note, in all honesty, having lists like these...
http://gizmodo.com/5889122/the-five-best-new-features-in-windows-8-consumer-preview
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/03/5-ways-windows-8/
...makes it a bit harder to just blindly laugh out of pure speculation at the new surely-gonna-fail product coming soon from M$... (Just when I was starting to get used to using that new start menu replacement ("Search programs and files") thingie!) (But I doubt I will be doing an actual download of Windows 8 beta (http://www.howtogeek.com/107084/heres-how-to-download-windows-8-beta-consumer-preview-right-now/) anytime soon)
On the plus side you can disable Metro, on the minus side pressing the start button starts Metro
A lot of support people are going to make a lot of money in the coming years...
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 05:31:08 PM
On the plus side you can disable Metro, on the minus side pressing the start button starts Metro
Can you for sure disable it? For those of us who want to, you know, actually DO STUFF on our computers?
http://www.alphaila.com/articles/failure/windows-8-concept-dariod/
I don't know, I guess I'll have to try it first, it seems like one of those things that would suck, but I all too easily dismiss change before trying it.
For me Windows 7 kicks the butt so, it will take a LOT of convincing for me to switch.
Slate: "You?ll Hate Windows 8" (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/06/windows_8_microsoft_s_radical_operating_system_redesign_will_aggravate_you_to_no_end_.html)
Quote
For a comprehensive look at the changes and their impact, I urge you to read ?Fear and Loathing and Windows 8 (http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.ca/2012/05/fear-and-loathing-and-windows-8.html),? a magisterial 7,400-word blog post by the tech entrepreneur Michael Mace. But if you?re short on time, let me describe one of several Windows 8 scenarios that had me going nuts. The other day I was trying to shut down a bill-paying system that I have with one bank so I could replace it with a new system at another bank. In order to do so, I needed to copy the information about each of my bills from the old bank to the new bank?which meant that I needed to get information from two different Web pages.
On Windows 7 or the Mac, I?d have done this by opening two Web pages in two adjacent windows. But in Metro, Windows 8?s primary interface, that?s not possible, because all apps take up the full screen. I could only have one bank site on the screen at a time, and I had to constantly switch between them. (It is possible to have multiple windows in Windows 8?s ?desktop? app, which is basically a way to mimic Windows 7 on the new OS. Microsoft, though, clearly expects the new interface to become the dominant way to use Windows, so I?ve tried to spend most of my time using it.)
The constant switching was annoying enough. But the effort it took to switch was even more trouble. If you?re using a touch-enabled computer, going from one open Web page to another requires swiping from the top of the screen to bring up icons of your open tabs, then tapping on the tab you want?a swipe and a tap, which feels like too much for a simple data entry task. But it?s even worse with a trackpad. To bring up the list of open tabs in Windows 8?s browser, you?ve got to hit the trackpad with two fingers, and then you have to switch back to one finger to choose the tab you want. This sounds easy, but if you?ve got to do it a half dozen times in a minute, the choreography becomes wearying. Things were especially difficult when I tried to mix selecting and copying text into the tab-switching routine. Then, for some reason, my fingers would frequently bring up the tab-switcher instead of selecting text or vice versa. The whole thing was such a mess that I eventually gave up and decided to switch my accounts using my Windows 7 desktop.
:RROD: RIP, Windows for the consumer PC market...
Let's not forget that Apple is adding iOS elements to OSX and Ubuntu now has the new "Unity" search thingy.
All of the top three desktop OS are undergoing big change
Well gnome is. KDE has those options, but doesn't force them on you.
Quote from: Tom on June 09, 2012, 02:33:00 PM
Well gnome is. KDE has those options, but doesn't force them on you.
KDE isn't an OS, which popular distro uses it as its primary default these days?
Quote from: Lazybones on June 09, 2012, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Tom on June 09, 2012, 02:33:00 PM
Well gnome is. KDE has those options, but doesn't force them on you.
KDE isn't an OS, which popular distro uses it as its primary default these days?
SuSe might. But they all have the option of KDE.
Yay. Getting that post error again.
This crop will lose, Win7 is dominant and will likely live on much as XP did.
Windows didn't die with ME and it won't die with 8 either.
Jakob Nielsen: "Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users"
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html
via http://mct.open.ac.uk/IT-Dev-Blog.nsf/dx/windows-8-experiments.htm
I expect SP1 will include a Windows 7 style desktop and a return to traditional Windows features.
Under the hood it's fairly solid but the interface and direction of the platform were too radical for most Windows users / developers.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 26, 2012, 10:04:00 AM
I expect SP1 will include a Windows 7 style desktop and a return to traditional Windows features.
Under the hood it's fairly solid but the interface and direction of the platform were too radical for most Windows users / developers.
I have a hunch they just rushed it out too fast. Had the new desktop work going, but wanted to get Windows 8 out in time for the tablets and convertibles, and decided it didn't matter if the desktop was lagging on release. Just a hunch.
I wonder how much was design, compromise or just plain old internal politics that affected this release.
Apparently Steven Sinofsky was not really all that well liked in some circles at Microsoft and was one of the more vocal proponents of the changes, who knows what kind of friction was happening behind closed doors.
From what I've heard, there has been a lot of political bull@%&#. Other people have left because of it.
Not surprising really I guess
Quote from: Tom on November 26, 2012, 10:08:39 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 26, 2012, 10:04:00 AM
Under the hood it's fairly solid but the interface and direction of the platform were too radical for most Windows users / developers.
I have a hunch they just rushed it out too fast.
Yeah it's pretty clear that even those who WANT to try different things, who want to keep moving forward, and aren't opposed to change in of itself, are still left scratching their head -- even the JOATs in the IT industry who can easily jump around between Linux and Apple and Windows, multiple flavors of each.
I just really think it's a mistake in terms of Brand New Cognitive Thinking Patterns Required, a surprising burden put on the end-user including the hardcore techies ... but hey from a business POV I think that the Suits @ MS realized that in 5 years time they ain't gonna be making any $ from new OS purchases,
unless they dive in with both feet into a New Direction (aka tablets and mobile and Surface devices etc.) ... but as usual the end user will have to "adapt or die" (in this case, adapt or stop being a Windows user).
But re. the UseIt link, even I think that Jakob might often be a cranky old fart who complains a ton, but he also has a ton of experience dealing with user interface and user
experience, which includes emotions and efficiency and even neural pathways and whatnot, aka how the human brain works (and how to get in the way of it working efficiently) -- so if I was one of the OS design team @ MS*, I would be pretty worried that he panned the New Direction so strongly. (Hence the likelihood of a future "SP" to "fix" what they are currently denying is "broken" ;) )
*or more correctly, one of those those who haven't yet resigned -- http://www.google.com/search?q=Why+Steven+Sinofsky+is+out+at+Microsoft (lol @ "making space for new leaders" )
At its heart it's a matter of taste, I know a few people who quite like the new interface and it's not that hard to get your brain around after playing with it for a bit.
It's very gimmicky though and when I see how the new XBox dash uses the "metro" style interface to deliver advertising in "unused tiles" I get very suspicious about the new direction.
Also I've had a lot of bad personal experiences in the past with Microsoft based "app stores".
Call me jaded I guess
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 26, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
At its heart it's a matter of taste, I know a few people who quite like the new interface and it's not that hard to get your brain around after playing with it for a bit.
There's a reason that 99% of "ordinary folks" didn't have any interest in have a home personal computer until the mid 1980s introduced the "desktop" metaphor -- because that's how people
work. For the same reason, the movie "Minority Report" depicted a cool novelty interface with lots of finger pointing and swiping etc ... because it was novel and cool, not because it was suddenly a more efficient way of dealing with data and functionality.
"A desktop computer driven by mouse and keyboard is not a tablet or a phone and
the visual and control metaphors just don't work in the same way."
- http://mct.open.ac.uk/IT-Dev-Blog.nsf/dx/windows-8-experiments.htm
Believe me I agree, I'm just saying some people like it but I doubt very much it will catch on.
I feel like it will be Vista, its out there, people will use it but there won't be much evangelizing, certainly not in tech circles lol
But I DO think that new forms of interface will start to become more common over time, especially after seeing so many cool uses people have found for the Kinect. I fully expect touch screen monitors to catch on sooner than later, as well gesture/voice interface though probably to a lesser degree.
The key to success isn't replacing traditional input rather supplementing it that will really drive new GUI metaphors.
It wasn't that long ago that people were using command line to launch games and apps and yet it seems arcane by today's standards.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 26, 2012, 11:42:39 AM
I DO think that new forms of interface will start to become more common over time, especially after seeing so many cool uses people have found for the Kinect. I fully expect touch screen monitors to catch on sooner than later, as well gesture/voice interface though probably to a lesser degree.
The key to success isn't replacing traditional input rather supplementing it that will really drive new GUI metaphors.
here's hoping that something eyePhone-like (http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_of_the_Killer_App) occurs before
this (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=College+Humor+Kinect+Self-Awareness).
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 26, 2012, 12:13:13 PM
here's hoping that something eyePhone-like (http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_of_the_Killer_App) occurs before this (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=College+Humor+Kinect+Self-Awareness).
note to self: I
really have to stop linking to anything from College Humor. #timesink #avoidable
Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 26, 2012, 11:42:39 AM
Believe me I agree, I'm just saying some people like it but I doubt very much it will catch on.
But I DO think that new forms of interface will start to become more common over time
"UI is important because it affects the feelings, the emotions, and the mood of your users. ...To make people happy, you have to let them feel like they are in control of their environment. To do this, you need to correctly interpret their actions.
The interface needs to behave in the way they are expecting it to behave."
- Joel "on Software" Spolsky article "Controlling Your Environment Makes You Happy (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000057.html)" -- from 12.5 years ago.
"A [UI] metaphor (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000060.html), badly chosen, is worse than no metaphor at all."
Bingo.
How many people touch their damn screens. Everyone.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 01, 2012, 10:09:33 AM
How many people touch their damn screens. Everyone.
But when it comes to Real World tasks being accomplished, "pushing paper" is a cliche for a reason. You don't "slide away" your folders from your desk, you file them away, open and close them etc.
I was talking about the OS UI being a metaphor that cognitively links up with the RL tasks. Not whether or not the current reality is that human beings are used to using touch screens to interface.
Well, I don't want to put you on the spot here Darren but I'm sure you've noticed that everyone uses their computer in a different way but they use the same inputs, I don't see how adding new inputs/metaphors are a bad thing. It's only when you replace one metaphor for another that is the main point of contention I have with Windows 8.
I like the idea of adding touch capability, probably because I have been using a tablet interface for artwork for a number of years now but also because I have a Tablet computer and found it easy to use out of the box. It could be a replacement for using a mouse, in fact I think you'd have to use your arm less because you can just click on something, you don't have to drag a cursor to it first.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very adept at using both the keyboard and mouse at the same time to "do things" and no one is taking that away, but I can see how adding touch capability is going to be useful for everyone.
I'm calling it now; touch screens are coming (if not here already) to PCs and will be part of your daily computing experience.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Multi-touch monitors and all-in-one computers have been around for a couple of years now. My in-laws bought one about 18 months ago at Costco, and they like to use two-finger zooming on pictures they're looking at (by that, I mean that they touch the screen where the corners of the picture is and then move their fingers further apart to make the picture bigger). In fact, they find it very intuitive, much more so than trying to find the zoom slider and moving it sideways with the mouse. This functionality on their computer required separate HP software, though, whereas Windows 8 should have it built in.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 03, 2012, 09:38:59 AM
everyone uses their computer in a different way but they use the same inputs, I don't see how adding new inputs/metaphors are a bad thing. It's only when you replace one metaphor for another that is the main point of contention I have with Windows 8.
Yeah.
Well okay then :D
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 03, 2012, 10:30:55 AM
Well okay then :D
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
FYP:
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
...
(crash your web browser yet?)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
...
(or at least induce a seisure?)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/MpcRq.gif)
SUCCESS!
(http://i.imgur.com/43qDI.jpg)
Even More Windows H8 ;)
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2012/12/05/christmas-gift-for-someone-you-hate-windows-8/
Quotea 'Christmas gift for someone you hate.'
And more!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo
I thought it was amusing, and not incorrect.
Losing context is a bad thing for the human brain. It likes to wipe your short term memory when that happens. How many times have you forgotten what you were doing when you went through a door way (or from one room to another?). There's been studies that show that that's what the brain does when context is lost, It treats it as an all new experience, assuming that prior state is not likely to be useful, so away it goes.
-removed-
Well I have to say... wow!
I've been watching and reading all these, trying to keep an open mind. I've been using Windows 8 now since October, and I have been trying to really see the problems each of these people had.
I agree in some things; mail program and messenger are really really bad. I would recommend not even trying either when you get there.
But I cannot agree with most of the H8. I really can't. I enjoy Windows 8's advancements, and I can't no matter how hard I try hate the OS. The small-comings that every article points out aren't as imposing or problematic as they make it out to be.
Take the last video from Tom - guy keeps talking about the weather app popping up in his face. I've setup all the weather apps, and none did what he complains about, including the built in one.
The complaints about the swipe technology on a touch pad and complains about it interfering with your mouse movement. Took me a few seconds to really determine the difference between the mouse and the swipe actions. I think he might have skipped the tutorial on this - why a tutorial? Because you are adding functionality to a device that didn't have it before - hence you have to learn something new. And this tech is there not just for Windows 8 but for all OSs implementing swiping.
Anyway, I don't want to downplay your guys findings. Obviously some people are not happy with the Windows 8 interface or feature set. But the hate is getting too stupid; its becoming a band-wagon freak show now.
For those of you whom find some of these to have relevance and will be hesitant to move to Windows 8 - I say Windows 9 will be probably the better for you. Those of us whom can adjust to change, keep open minds and let things sink in a Windows world, then I implore you to try Windows 8.
And if you do try Windows 8 I leave you with this one piece of advice - don't try and make it Windows XP or Windows 7. It is a new brand of OS from Microsoft, a new animal. You have to try to embrace the new concepts, rather than compare or it just ends up posted here as an article....
"elderly dad uses Windows 8 for the first time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
So he starts at the boxes. Quickly clicks Windows Explorer.
Then spends a LONG time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU#t=1m8s "trying to get back to all them boxes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU#t=2m45s "Try to get back to the tiles!" "That's what I'm trying to do!"
Melbosa, see this follow-up video with the same elderly dad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbjnbhWVN8c (Windows 8 vs Mac OS X)
"navigation was the weakest thing for me ... cumbersome ... more frustrated working with the Windows, I felt challenged"
I finally got 'round to watching the video and it nails the main point of what's wrong with Windows 8 as a desktop PC experience: everything.
The video focuses on the "Four Cs"; control, conveyance, continuity, and context and shows you how various operating systems (including previous instalments of Windows) have succeeded and where exactly Windows 8 fails.
Near the end he picks up a very good point which has been the main theme with all this echo chamber hatred: Windows 8 is designed with content consumption in mind NOT content creation.
Perhaps it rubs you the wrong way because of the presentation (whiny guy from internet) but there are many valid points there.
Like it or not it this iteration of Window is a turkey, at least in its current form.
Edit:
Melbosa I couldn't disagree with you more, I've had hands on Windows 8 on a desktop now for a while now, it isn't about learning a few new metaphors it is about completely obliterating common sense for style.
I know this sounds hyperbolic but this is the worst desktop offering from Microsoft since Windows ME.
It works great on a phone, but you know what, so did the rotary dial.
I respect hands on experience, I do. So your Opinion matters more to me than any of the articles posted here; and your perspective will also be unique compared to everyone else I know.
Myself, I don't seem to have the issues with the "Four Cs" he talks about.
I find the control of the interface, while different for sure, not cumbersome or in complete.
The Conveyance seems more a keen to Tablet users and Apple people than PC users, which is why it can be lost.
Continuity does fail a bit between modern ui an classic desktop, as the two are very exclusive, but rightfully so - one is very Tablet and TV oriented, the other very much the PC interface we all use in our jobs. Whether this may be a bad thing or good thing, I cannot decide yet, even after months.
Context for me has been very well done. But the fine control required for some of the context sensitive items might be harsh if motor controls or vision are impaired, so I can see the implications here for that.
Overall though, for myself, I can see the direction and motivation behind the OS. Windows 9 will be better for everyone I hope, but for now Windows 8 works for me.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 21, 2012, 09:46:42 AM
Near the end he picks up a very good point which has been the main theme with all this echo chamber hatred: Windows 8 is designed with content consumption in mind NOT content creation.
so... "Media Center Edition" is now the ONLY version? #nicebusinessmodel
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
I respect hands on experience
videos capture the frustration far better than articles:
(and it ain't just a weird / badlydesigned weather app at fault here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLTE_bvlWUE
Quote from: Mr. Analog link=topic=7990.msg68108#msg68108 I know this sounds hyperbolic but this is the worst desktop offering from Microsoft since Windows ME.
/quote]
the "frustration" video linked above suggests it's worse than DOS -- because at least with DOS the "4 Cs" were covered coherently.
Quote from: Mr. Analog link=topic=7990.msg68108#msg68108
It works great on a phone, but you know what, so did the rotary dial.
Yeah, it's like Win8 is a great metaphor... but for a different tool than any mouse-based computing device, anything where you want to do more than consume or Instagram or cut out a chunk of a Youtube video; it's kinda like forcing people to use screws with their hammer ... ummm, are you sure there's not maybe a better fit for that tool?
I have been running it at home for some time now at home.
Like:
Includes hyper-v
Dual monitor task bar
Stable
Fast
Dislike:
Start screen search is inferior to windows 7 search because controlpannel sections now require an extra click.
Activating the start screen over RDP requires a mouse over because of key mapping the start menu button was more convienent
Have not found any need or use for windows 8 native apps, mostly use a desktop mode browser or app at all times.
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2012, 09:23:43 AM
The complaints about the swipe technology on a touch pad and complains about it interfering with your mouse movement. Took me a few seconds to really determine the difference between the mouse and the swipe actions. I think he might have skipped the tutorial on this - why a tutorial? Because you are adding functionality to a device that didn't have it before - hence you have to learn something new. And this tech is there not just for Windows 8 but for all OSs implementing swiping.
Yeah, he probably did skip the tutorial - the basic rule of UI design is users don't read anything over eight words long, and also they
don't read anything. In time everyone will learn how to use the UI through trial and error or, in corporate environments, through training. The point Tom's video was trying to make was that one could not intuit without training how the current OS works, even if one was proficient with previous versions, and that this was being
forced on everyone rather than being a choice the user can make when buying their computer.
Longtime non-techie Windows users would probably have just as much trouble switching to some of the Linux distros, and would try to muddle through it without getting training. They wouldn't be nearly as upset, though, because they'd realize they're going to a completely different OS rather than thinking it's just a slightly newer version of the OS they already know.
Anyway, you're probably enjoying the Windows 8 experience because you took the time to go through the tutorials and/or get other training on how to use it properly. That might be why you can't understand why people
who didn't bother getting training or watching tutorials are having such a hard time with the OS.
Oh, and the weather app thing was probably caused by him swiping on his touchpad a certain way.
Quote from: Thorin on December 21, 2012, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Melbosa on December 21, 2012, 09:23:43 AM
The complaints about the swipe technology on a touch pad and complains about it interfering with your mouse movement. Took me a few seconds to really determine the difference between the mouse and the swipe actions. I think he might have skipped the tutorial on this - why a tutorial? Because you are adding functionality to a device that didn't have it before - hence you have to learn something new. And this tech is there not just for Windows 8 but for all OSs implementing swiping.
Yeah, he probably did skip the tutorial - the basic rule of UI design is users don't read anything over eight words long, and also they don't read anything. In time everyone will learn how to use the UI through trial and error or, in corporate environments, through training. The point Tom's video was trying to make was that one could not intuit without training how the current OS works, even if one was proficient with previous versions, and that this was being forced on everyone rather than being a choice the user can make when buying their computer.
Longtime non-techie Windows users would probably have just as much trouble switching to some of the Linux distros, and would try to muddle through it without getting training. They wouldn't be nearly as upset, though, because they'd realize they're going to a completely different OS rather than thinking it's just a slightly newer version of the OS they already know.
Anyway, you're probably enjoying the Windows 8 experience because you took the time to go through the tutorials and/or get other training on how to use it properly. That might be why you can't understand why people who didn't bother getting training or watching tutorials are having such a hard time with the OS.
Oh, and the weather app thing was probably caused by him swiping on his touchpad a certain way.
He eventually figured it out, it was caused by using the touchpad normally. If you try and move the mouse with it, but you're close to the left side, it turns into a swipe gesture, rather than a mouse movement.
Much like that guy, I think its a complete mistake to enable the use of a touchpad as a gesture/touch interface. That isn't what it does. It was not made for that, and it shows.
I haven't used a MS Surface tablet yet, but I have tried the Dell Hybrid tablet running Windows RT 8, the experience was AWFUL compared to Android and iOS tablets.
1. Dell rotation sensor was REALLY REALLY bad.
2. Dell WiFi chip or antena design causes very poor performance.
3. Still ended up in desktop mode all the time just navigating around the device, and in desktop mode the UI controls are not touch friendly.
I even liked the RIM playbook better and my biggest beef with it was mandatory hidden gestures you needed to know (both Apple and Google give you dedicated buttons or UI elements to get home for example)
Huh, there isn't supposed to be a desktop on Windows-RT. Even a little bit. Windows-RT is the ARM/Embedded platform, and is supposed to not have any of the classic windows features.
Maybe it's running Windows 8 instead? A lot of the convertibles and beefier Windows tablets coming out are Windows 8 devices, mainly because MS locked out a lot of OEMs from Windows-RT, and the whole Surface debacle made even more OEMs decide to wait and see about even doing a Windows RT line, so mostly devices have been Windows 8.
Sorry, you are right it was windows 8.
Well it's been 5 months, any thoughts on this article...
http://www.howtogeek.com/143564/5-months-of-windows-8-and-surface-rt-still-overwhelmingly-meh/
...or at least on the fact that the apparent marketshare of Windows VISTA is > Windows 8?
I'm not trying to Windows-bash here.
Although props to Microsoft for not being complete deniers-of-reality: http://www.howtogeek.com/133168/how-to-downgrade-windows-8-pro-to-windows-7/
I guess we'll see how much Microsoft has learned when 8.1 comes out this fall. Currently the number one app download for new users is a working Start menu still
I like how they are trying to re-image their release schedule. windows blue? windows 8.1? Don't you mean Windows 8 SP1?
People were all like "OMG Windows 8.1 will be free! OMG!" well, so were all previous Service Packs.
Yep, exactly