I've been meaning to "expand my horizons" as it were for a while now. Want to finally understand this "Test Driven Development" thing better. And improve my User Interface Design skills (they are QUITE lacking at the moment).
If you guys have any good tips, resources, books, whathaveyou, please share :)
Sh-bam! -> Test Driven Development: By Example (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0321146530/)
Concepts/Tools that are going to be key:
-Automating Tests
-Code Coverage Tools
-Complexity Analysis
-Inversion of Control
-Refactoring
IoC can be a lightbulb moment for many programmers, and it usually doesn't become apparent until you start automating tests. The other thing you have to lose is fear of changing code that "works", if it's a pain in the ass to test and/or it's really monolithic and returning poor complexity numbers it usually means the code is going to be a bitch to maintain or extremely difficult to change. TDD can also expose other things you don't expect like threading/concurrency issues, overly tight coupling and duplication of work. It also comes in handy when working on bugs, create a test that replicates the bug condition and then fix it, chances are you'll increase coverage with the test/fix anyway, plus it's a great way to add unit tests to existing code.
Find out what tools are available out there, try a few to get a feel for what each one offers and then pick the best one. Don't worry about differences in coverage reports, just pick whatever tool has the most automation and never ever worry about trying to get 100% coverage.
The main thing is to write your tests before you write the code because honestly if you aren't ready to write the test you are for sure not ready to write the code.
My suggestion is to work on a pet project, greenfield (meaning starting new on it), with someone who already understands and practices test-driven development. Have them show you in real time how they write a few tests and code to pass those tests, then try it for a bit, then ask them to show you how to make mock objects to use in Inversion-of-Control scenarios, then try that for a bit.
Good tools make this very easy, bad tools will make this hard. But no matter what, just remember that you want to write the test first, run it and have it fail, write the actual code, run the test again and have it pass:
1. write test (stub methods in code-under-test if required)
2. run test and watch it fail
3. write code in code-under-test so it'll pass
4. run test again and watch it pass
5. make sure code-under-test is self-contained, not calling other DLLs / assemblies / external things
Small methods make this easier. Using mock objects makes this easier. Making sure that your tests only test the immediate code, not crossing boundaries like going to the file system to read files or going to the database to read data, makes this easier.
If you were to write code to practice TDD, what language would you want to use?
Yeah the tools and the language generally go hand in hand, from personal experience Java has more advanced tools but .NET is catching up.
You might also want to start looking into using Continuous Integration (CI) along side unit testing, where builds are triggered on checkin so you always have an idea if something is going to be a breaking change.
Quote from: Thorin on March 01, 2012, 01:25:00 PM
My suggestion is to work on a pet project, greenfield (meaning starting new on it), with someone who already understands and practices test-driven development. Have them show you in real time how they write a few tests and code to pass those tests, then try it for a bit, then ask them to show you how to make mock objects to use in Inversion-of-Control scenarios, then try that for a bit.
Good tools make this very easy, bad tools will make this hard. But no matter what, just remember that you want to write the test first, run it and have it fail, write the actual code, run the test again and have it pass:
1. write test (stub methods in code-under-test if required)
2. run test and watch it fail
3. write code in code-under-test so it'll pass
4. run test again and watch it pass
5. make sure code-under-test is self-contained, not calling other DLLs / assemblies / external things
Small methods make this easier. Using mock objects makes this easier. Making sure that your tests only test the immediate code, not crossing boundaries like going to the file system to read files or going to the database to read data, makes this easier.
If you were to write code to practice TDD, what language would you want to use?
Ugh. somehow the forums (or firefox) lost my first reply... >:(
Anyhow, my first two choices would be Perl and C++, but I'll likely (eventually) be doing some with PHP (for the new job). And may do some with Java (for android) in the future.
The fun part is some/one of the things I'm working on doesn't really have anything directly testable. It's a horrible interdependent mass of C and Java. The C stuff mostly has its own test cases (which I had nothing to do with), and the code I've been working on is pure glue code. Makes the framework written in C talk to Android's Java based platform. Means a lot of C and Java glue code. It's really fun let me tell you.
Using TDD on glue code is actually a really good start because there are supposed to be known behaviours from both sides. I think I mentioned before that the worst part with TDD is getting started, at first it seems like a mountain but if you start with your own new code and branch out over time you'll chip away at it bit by bit and eventually have coverage.
Have you thought about rails at all? I have a couple friends in the YEGRB I could connect you with, they also happen to be part of the Agile group here in Edmonton.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:46:02 PM
Using TDD on glue code is actually a really good start because there are supposed to be known behaviours from both sides. I think I mentioned before that the worst part with TDD is getting started, at first it seems like a mountain but if you start with your own new code and branch out over time you'll chip away at it bit by bit and eventually have coverage.
Have you thought about rails at all? I have a couple friends in the YEGRB I could connect you with, they also happen to be part of the Agile group here in Edmonton.
Rails is Ruby is it not?
I'm not entirely sure how testing would work on code that runs on a phone. Especially on both the java and C sides. Main events on the java side come directly from Dalvik, C stuff comes from user code (running in a separate thread).. And then the glue coed does tricksy things to translate back and forth.
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:46:02 PM
Using TDD on glue code is actually a really good start because there are supposed to be known behaviours from both sides. I think I mentioned before that the worst part with TDD is getting started, at first it seems like a mountain but if you start with your own new code and branch out over time you'll chip away at it bit by bit and eventually have coverage.
Have you thought about rails at all? I have a couple friends in the YEGRB I could connect you with, they also happen to be part of the Agile group here in Edmonton.
Rails is Ruby is it not?
I'm not entirely sure how testing would work on code that runs on a phone. Especially on both the java and C sides. Main events on the java side come directly from Dalvik, C stuff comes from user code (running in a separate thread).. And then the glue coed does tricksy things to translate back and forth.
Yep, Ruby on Rails, lots of tools out there from what I gather.
Aha, well the idea is that you set tests up that behave like the phone but you run them in your own little pretend world. In fact there are several tools out there for Mocking (like http://www.jmock.org/ ).
Man maybe we should do some pair programming so I can sort of show you what I'm talking about, when you see what I'm talking about it makes a whole lot more sense.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 01:46:02 PM
Using TDD on glue code is actually a really good start because there are supposed to be known behaviours from both sides. I think I mentioned before that the worst part with TDD is getting started, at first it seems like a mountain but if you start with your own new code and branch out over time you'll chip away at it bit by bit and eventually have coverage.
Have you thought about rails at all? I have a couple friends in the YEGRB I could connect you with, they also happen to be part of the Agile group here in Edmonton.
Rails is Ruby is it not?
I'm not entirely sure how testing would work on code that runs on a phone. Especially on both the java and C sides. Main events on the java side come directly from Dalvik, C stuff comes from user code (running in a separate thread).. And then the glue coed does tricksy things to translate back and forth.
Yep, Ruby on Rails, lots of tools out there from what I gather.
Aha, well the idea is that you set tests up that behave like the phone but you run them in your own little pretend world. In fact there are several tools out there for Mocking (like http://www.jmock.org/ ).
Man maybe we should do some pair programming so I can sort of show you what I'm talking about, when you see what I'm talking about it makes a whole lot more sense.
Yeah, I'll have to look into that now. I just learned that my new project at work is a new android app. It'll be (imo) significantly easier to test.
Infact today I get to start looking up how to use the Android camera APIs and well as data management stuff (when to, and not to use data, and how much, etc).
Sounds cool, well if you ever want to pair up let me know we can hook up screen sharing on Skype or something and I can give you an intro to all this crazy.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:15:18 PM
Sounds cool, well if you ever want to pair up let me know we can hook up screen sharing on Skype or something and I can give you an intro to all this crazy.
Would be cool. I tend to learn best through seeing, and doing.
I actually have some time free today, or tomorrow after my dr. appointment, or really just about any other time. When ever is good for you (at least till I get some solid tasks to start on, right now we're/I'm in planning and research phase, and this sort of thing qualifies as research).
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
I tend to learn best through seeing, and doing.
Yeah, you're not unique in that aspect. Which is why I suggested hooking up with someone who knows it already :)
Hmm, Android is all Java-based, right?
A custom Java port, yes.
Quote from: Thorin on March 01, 2012, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
I tend to learn best through seeing, and doing.
Yeah, you're not unique in that aspect. Which is why I suggested hooking up with someone who knows it already :)
Hmm, Android is all Java-based, right?
Uses the Java programming language, and supports a rather large cross section of the standard library. But the VM itself (called Dalvik) is totally custom.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
B-zam! -> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/522312/best-practices-for-unit-testing-android-apps
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
Sounds good, structurally .NET is very similar to Java so the only thing you'll have to cope with are my font colour settings lol
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
Sounds good, structurally .NET is very similar to Java so the only thing you'll have to cope with are my font colour settings lol
Eh. Its all C. ;)
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:37:11 PM
Eh. Its all C. ;)
Hah, show him all this TDD in VB.NET.
Quote from: Thorin on March 01, 2012, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:37:11 PM
Eh. Its all C. ;)
Hah, show him all this TDD in VB.NET.
Hah. VB is not a C like ;) BASIC is its on class.
Nah, all my examples are in MSIL lol!
Lunar Command 2: MSIL Attack!
Shoot all the MSIL before it hits your CPU!
Quote from: Thorin on March 01, 2012, 03:08:13 PM
Lunar Command 2: MSIL Attack!
Shoot all the MSIL before it hits your CPU!
Glitch! Gamestats... hmm... looks like a standard action game... we have to launch missiles at The User, shouldn't be too hard!
REBOOT!
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
Hey Mr. Analog u practice on Tom, get your training skillz down, and then later on this year maybe I'll take your seminars or whatnot...
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 01, 2012, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
Hey Mr. Analog u practice on Tom, get your training skillz down, and then later on this year maybe I'll take your seminars or whatnot...
Maybe you can join us, the concepts are what count, at the very least it would be a start.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 03:38:38 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 01, 2012, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
I'll see if I can prep some stuff first. It will just be concepts and I'll have to show you in .NET (my Java development VirtualBox image seems to be corrupted, I think I have a backup on DVD somewhere...)
The main thing are the concepts though.
As I think I've mentioned before, I don't much care about the programming language, as long as it isn't super esoteric. So long as its C like, I just treat it like a new API to learn rather than a new /scary/ language to learn.
Hey Mr. Analog u practice on Tom, get your training skillz down, and then later on this year maybe I'll take your seminars or whatnot...
Maybe you can join us, the concepts are what count, at the very least it would be a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_KNYNzN6A
LOL!!
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 03:40:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 03:38:38 PM
Maybe you can join us, the concepts are what count, at the very least it would be a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_KNYNzN6A
meh, Simpsons stole the reference from Clerks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZ5PXAOttA
(who were paying homage to ... an old (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022913/) movie)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 01, 2012, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 03:40:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 01, 2012, 03:38:38 PM
Maybe you can join us, the concepts are what count, at the very least it would be a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_KNYNzN6A
meh, Simpsons stole the reference from Clerks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZ5PXAOttA
(who were paying homage to ... an old (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022913/) movie)
I hope you don't mean to say that the simpsons episode I linked to (that aired in the 90's or before) somehow referenced an animated clerks from the 2000s?
Give this man a "Simpsons Did It" t-shirt (now off to TVTropes with you!)
Quote from: Toolazytofixthispost
Quote from: Tom on March 01, 2012, 03:51:58 PM
meh, Simpsons stole the reference from Clerks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZ5PXAOttA
(who were paying homage to ... an old (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022913/) movie)
I hope you don't mean to say that the simpsons episode I linked to (that aired in the 90's or before) somehow referenced an animated clerks from the 2000s?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3N1sHwV7o6o/TsIUM-SNWII/AAAAAAAACj0/dY4Jmyb8kJ4/s1600/sp_0607_11_v6.jpeg)
Screw you, guys. I'm gooing hoome.
Are both of you guys available for Saturday afternoon on Skype? We can run through a crash TDD course.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 02, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
Are both of you guys available for Saturday afternoon on Skype? We can run through a crash TDD course.
Yuperoonie.
We should probably run a test of the sharing prior to then, as I'm not sure how well the linux version of skype handles desktop sharing.
k, I'll log on to Skype later today, if you're on ping me and well do a desktop sharing test.
DD you'll have to get Skype if you don't have it yet.
I've got my kids this weekend, gonna be crazy busy so can't do any "training" for sure. Proceed without me, maybe I'll connect up another time.
Actually it may work out better for me to push this off.
How is Sunday March 11th then?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 02, 2012, 12:01:36 PM
Actually it may work out better for me to push this off.
How is Sunday March 11th then?
looks good for me.
Quote from: Tom on March 02, 2012, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 02, 2012, 12:01:36 PM
Actually it may work out better for me to push this off.
How is Sunday March 11th then?
looks good for me.
Sounds good then, DD I hope you can make it for Sunday
My copy of TDD: By Example just arrived. \o/
Also came with: "Designing with the Mind in Mind" and "Don't Make Me Think".
/me has some reading to do.
Awesome! Also, that was fast!
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 03, 2012, 10:17:44 AM
Awesome! Also, that was fast!
Yeah, I paid amazon an extra $10 for the faster shipping, and it said it would arrive on monday. Turns out it got here /the next day/. So yeah, I'm rather happy with that extra $10 I spent.
Not to put you on the spot DD but I need to know if you have Skype rolling yet.
I'd like to do a desktop sharing test with both of you tonight just to make sure that's working as well.
I was also thinking maybe some time during the week might be better than Sunday, how does Wednesday after work sound?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 06, 2012, 07:00:53 AM
Not to put you on the spot DD but I need to know if you have Skype rolling yet.
I'd like to do a desktop sharing test with both of you tonight just to make sure that's working as well.
I was also thinking maybe some time during the week might be better than Sunday, how does Wednesday after work sound?
My skype works (though you didn't ask me :-X), except video can be iffy on my end. Just haven't tested desktop sharing yet either way.
This week should work as well.
Quote from: Tom on March 06, 2012, 08:36:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 06, 2012, 07:00:53 AM
Not to put you on the spot DD but I need to know if you have Skype rolling yet.
I'd like to do a desktop sharing test with both of you tonight just to make sure that's working as well.
I was also thinking maybe some time during the week might be better than Sunday, how does Wednesday after work sound?
My skype works (though you didn't ask me :-X), except video can be iffy on my end. Just haven't tested desktop sharing yet either way.
This week should work as well.
Well, I know your Skype works for talking we've used it a number of times before :)
I'd like to see DDs comments mostly because I'd like him to be there when we do this thang.
We can test desktop sharing later today maybe? I'll sign in some time around 4-ish?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 06, 2012, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: Tom on March 06, 2012, 08:36:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 06, 2012, 07:00:53 AM
Not to put you on the spot DD but I need to know if you have Skype rolling yet.
I'd like to do a desktop sharing test with both of you tonight just to make sure that's working as well.
I was also thinking maybe some time during the week might be better than Sunday, how does Wednesday after work sound?
My skype works (though you didn't ask me :-X), except video can be iffy on my end. Just haven't tested desktop sharing yet either way.
This week should work as well.
Well, I know your Skype works for talking we've used it a number of times before :)
I'd like to see DDs comments mostly because I'd like him to be there when we do this thang.
We can test desktop sharing later today maybe? I'll sign in some time around 4-ish?
Sure.
So, desktop sharing between Windows / Linux works.
DD we just need the word from you now and we'll set up the time.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 06, 2012, 03:24:16 PM
So, desktop sharing between Windows / Linux works.
DD we just need the word from you now and we'll set up the time.
I don't have anything happening after church on Sunday so I should be back at home by 3:30-4:00 then, but I will try to get Skype installed and testing well before then -- do a test run Thursday evening maybe?
Sure thing, or if both of you are up for it maybe we can just do this thing tonight?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 07, 2012, 08:11:08 AM
Sure thing, or if both of you are up for it maybe we can just do this thing tonight?
When ever's good for you guys (this week is pretty flexible for me).
Wednesday evenings and possibly Thursdays are booked for me. Sunday night or Monday/Tuesday night are pretty much the only consistent free nights (I think ;) )
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 07, 2012, 04:29:25 PM
Wednesday evenings and possibly Thursdays are booked for me. Sunday night or Monday/Tuesday night are pretty much the only consistent free nights (I think ;) )
Ok, well I guess just make sure you've got Skype running and we'll do this on Sunday sometime.
timely I guess, found this while doing some Java api searching...
"How to Reap the Benefits of Agile-Based TDD" http://www.ottow.net/?p=53
I prefer JMock/EasyMock but otherwise a lot of the tools they use there are pretty easy to get your head around.
PM me with your Skype ID once you have it.
I'm thinking we'll do the call around 3?
OK let's pick this up again. What evening are you guys free?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:15:39 PM
OK let's pick this up again. What evening are you guys free?
Ack. Did I miss sunday? I ended up sleeping most of sunday :-x
Anyhow, I'm free pretty much every evening.
Quote from: Tom on March 13, 2012, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:15:39 PM
OK let's pick this up again. What evening are you guys free?
Ack. Did I miss sunday? I ended up sleeping most of sunday :-x
Anyhow, I'm free pretty much every evening.
We both did, actually. Like a fool I went to bed without my CPAP and my tonsils were incredibly swollen to the point where it felt like there was a finger going down my throat (not what you need when you're already hung over).
I thought I posted in this thread actually but I guess I didn't. I spent most of Sunday reading comics and watching cartoons :)
I'm actually surprised I wasn't more hung over actually, I was drinking beer all day and consumed far more Old No. 7 than I had intended (hindsight 20/20 and all that)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 13, 2012, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:15:39 PM
OK let's pick this up again. What evening are you guys free?
Ack. Did I miss sunday? I ended up sleeping most of sunday :-x
Anyhow, I'm free pretty much every evening.
We both did, actually. Like a fool I went to bed without my CPAP and my tonsils were incredibly swollen to the point where it felt like there was a finger going down my throat (not what you need when you're already hung over).
I thought I posted in this thread actually but I guess I didn't. I spent most of Sunday reading comics and watching cartoons :)
I'm actually surprised I wasn't more hung over actually, I was drinking beer all day and consumed far more Old No. 7 than I had intended (hindsight 20/20 and all that)
I Got to sleep sometime after 5am, woke up at like 7-8 pm, went back to sleep around 4am ish. got up around 8 ;D Spent most of sunday sleeping and reading.
Quote from: Tom on March 13, 2012, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: Tom on March 13, 2012, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 01:15:39 PM
OK let's pick this up again. What evening are you guys free?
Ack. Did I miss sunday? I ended up sleeping most of sunday :-x
Anyhow, I'm free pretty much every evening.
We both did, actually. Like a fool I went to bed without my CPAP and my tonsils were incredibly swollen to the point where it felt like there was a finger going down my throat (not what you need when you're already hung over).
I thought I posted in this thread actually but I guess I didn't. I spent most of Sunday reading comics and watching cartoons :)
I'm actually surprised I wasn't more hung over actually, I was drinking beer all day and consumed far more Old No. 7 than I had intended (hindsight 20/20 and all that)
I Got to sleep sometime after 5am, woke up at like 7-8 pm, went back to sleep around 4am ish. got up around 8 ;D Spent most of sunday sleeping and reading.
I reset all my clocks first then I was buzzing for about 3 hours, so I think I hit the hey around 6 or 7 AM, I woke up in the afternoon and putzed around
I climbed in bed at 4:55am and awoke at 9:03am but stayed in bed and snoozed until noonish ("snoozed" meaning someone'd disturb my slumber every 20 to 40 minutes).
I'm still kinda catching on sleep ;) but I'm busy right through until Sunday evening (possibly).
Again, if you want to get started on an earlier day that works for you guys go right ahead, no biggie...
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 13, 2012, 03:39:40 PM
I'm still kinda catching on sleep ;) but I'm busy right through until Sunday evening (possibly).
Again, if you want to get started on an earlier day that works for you guys go right ahead, no biggie...
I really want to make sure you're included here DD, Sunday evening it is then. What time?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 03:43:00 PM
I really want to make sure you're included here DD, Sunday evening it is then. What time?
Cool -- well, 7:30pm would be a good guaranteed time I expect to be back home even on weekends where I'm out and about with the kids. Wind down the weekend with some learninating, sounds like a plan?
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 13, 2012, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 13, 2012, 03:43:00 PM
I really want to make sure you're included here DD, Sunday evening it is then. What time?
Cool -- well, 7:30pm would be a good guaranteed time I expect to be back home even on weekends where I'm out and about with the kids. Wind down the weekend with some learninating, sounds like a plan?
Sounds like a plan Stan
Tom and me are trash-talking* you right now... with my dollarama mic ftw!
...so I guess another night Mr. Analog sir? (and PS: accept my Friend Request or whatever it's called in Skype ;) )
* ;) j/k of course ... you know I don't need Tom's help to trash-talk you buddy!
B'OH
Quote from: Tom on February 28, 2012, 09:08:14 PM
If you guys have any good tips, resources, books, whathaveyou, please share :)
Michael Feathers: "10 Papers Every Programmer Should Read (At Least Twice)"
http://blog.objectmentor.com/articles/2009/02/26/10-papers-every-programmer-should-read-at-least-twice
apparently Mr. Feathers is highly respected in the agile/TDD community (http://www.objectmentor.com/omTeam/feathers_m.html).
And at a quick glance I would say that most of his suggested papers in the list are helpful in getting folks like us (i.e. "Developers", not happy just being code monkey "programmers") to get thinking in a way that makes the task of designing/building stuff easier on our brains... and often on our fingers as well.
That reminds me shall we pick this up again Sunday afternoon?
How is everyone's Sunday 3 PM?
Should be good if I don't overdo it with something again. Or get stuck up all night with stomach pain again >:(
Well, I'll check the boards at 1 PM-ish
That early is only tentative for me -- evenings are more likely, 7pm+. Even on Sundays, too often 'Man makes plans, and God laughs' ;) (especially true when you have kids)
I'm open to weeknights providing I know when you guys are free, Sunday night is out for me though.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 24, 2012, 08:26:22 AM
Sunday night is out for me though.
:shakes angry fist: