http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html
I'm filling my fridge with PLANTS this weekend... and cutting back on the "convenience" foods that are mostly industry/business and very little nutrition. I just hope more and more people realize what Mark is trying to remind us (hopefully not teach, i.e. we should already know this but just have forgotten, culturally) -- that we has a species, and as individual members, eat too much meat and junk food. Even if you're not willing or interested in becoming anything close to vegetarian, at least looking at the ratio of meat:plants in your diet surely can't hurt, and possibly can help the long-term survival of our species on this planet. To think that 30% of the land on Earth is used for livestock production, yikes. That can't be sustainable (let alone the "double within 40 years" predicted growth!)
And if you are truly ready to re-examine the concept of human self-importance* (over other "objects" surrounding us throughout the natural world) then have fun...
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pollan_gives_a_plant_s_eye_view.html
*humanity: 25000 genes. rice: 30000. #humblingaintit
Apocalyptic predictions (aka "double in 40 years") is easy. What's harder is actually being right.
Humans are more important than plants or animals. If one disagrees with this and one wants to give the planet back to the plants and animals, one should off oneself and become plant-meal. Of course, no one would actually kill themselves, thus showing that while they might say plants and animals are more important, they won't walk the talk.
But hey, telling others what to think and do, now that's something every human likes doing. After all, if you can get them to parrot you and spread links of you talking, you clearly have influence and power.
That said, I didn't bother watching the video as I'm in no way interested in the hypocrisy of someone telling me what's best for the planet when they won't even do what's best for the planet themselves.
There's actually a really handy guide on eating well here:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-aliment/index-eng.php
As for TED, "Did you know that disco record sales were up 400 per cent for the year ending 1976? If these trends continue, A-y-y-y!". I guess what I'm saying is that when a TED presenter is relying on statistics to bring their argument across they usually have a weak argument. (see "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" :) )
But thanks for bringing this up, I know one thing I've changed in the last year or so is eating habits. I'm down to having red meat once a week, I try to make sure I'm having something from each food group at every meal and reduce portions. I also try to avoid pre-packaged stuff and do more of my own cooking. Often I find pre-packaged stuff is just overpriced ingredients collected together for convenience sake.
There's actually a good spinoff show from SMBC-Theater that covers eating frugally, but well, check out their show about soup: http://youtu.be/EAwXDSaMuiY
Quote from: Thorin on March 14, 2012, 12:53:26 AM
Apocalyptic predictions (aka "double in 40 years") is easy. What's harder is actually being right.
Humans are more important than plants or animals. If one disagrees with this and one wants to give the planet back to the plants and animals, one should off oneself and become plant-meal.
I'm not interested primarily in the "what the world will be like 40 years from now" speculations, it's just one thing that caught my attention towards the end.
And re. "plants vs. humans", actually the Talks seem to be focused on humanity working in harmony with the plants, instead of thinking it's a zero sum game where "us" winning means "they" have to lose. And the modifications to our lifestyle would result naturally from modifications to our point of view -- just look at how things have changed in the past 100 years, in terms of what garbage fuel we throw into our bodies, it's literally killing us (science/medicine has just made it harder for the average joe to see, since so many miracles are resulting in "longer life"... but what about quality of life? and what about the environment around us that we enjoy/endure that life in?)
As Mr. Analog pointed out, it's possible to alter your diet/lifestyle choices without going to an impossible-to-maintain extreme. If the average North American is eating a half-pound of red meat EVERY DAY while even the government (which is IN BED with agribusiness!) tells you to limit yourself to around a half-pound per WEEK, obviously it's not gonna cost you health-wise to reduce your meat intake (and replace it with plants) and just look at the waistlines and heart attack stats, it's gonna HELP you health-wise.
But it comes down to individuals making choices, these TED talks are meant to inspire and encourage open-minded discussion and possibly lifestyle changes etc... not to force anybody to make life changes against their will (leave that to the legislators ;) )
I'd say nature is just as important as we are. Without it, we're doomed. Though without us, it'd be just fine ;) But I don't really want to die, so eh.
It's funny you guys are cutting back on meat.. I've had to significantly increase my meat intake. Its about the only thing I can eat these days aside from veggies. Of course I try not to eat red meat too regularly. I split my intake into fish, pork and beef. And some chicken. So I suppose it isn't all bad.
5+ years ago I'd eat meat a few times a month, now its nearly (if not) every day :o
The assumption there (if I'm reading you right) is that the quality of life has declined which is completely subjective, the western diet from a century ago would appear grotesque these days (particularly the levels of sodium to prevent spoilage and calorie intake to keep you working 12 hours without automation).
I say if you want to change your diet do it for yourself. :)
Reminds me how I watched some wonderful documentaries on how the government food guides have little to do with science and a lot to do with lobbies (wheat and dairy farmers).
There are also massively conflicting studies as well. One will show a vegetarian diet is the way to go, and another study on the Inuit far up north shows that their almost all meet / blubber diet is also sustainable and healthy.
My greatest concern is the big seed companies, they are breading food not to make it heather, but to make it sterile so farmers HAVE to purchase / license more seeds, and also making it resistant to their own herbicides so they can sell more herbicides.... There seems to be some evidence that the latest modern crops are bigger and tougher yielding more food but at the same time the proteins are harder for our bodies to digest.
In general our diet in North Americana is strange compared to many parts of the world.
A hundred years ago, so 1912. That's back when they were still selling "firewater", a mixture of dirty water, cheap whiskey, and arsenic (for that "kick"). Oh, and alcoholism was rampant, even for those that knew to avoid firewater. And your @%&# was literally on the street, as that's where you'd empty your chamber pot in a crowded city. And yes, in 1912 there were still chamber pots and outhouses.
Over the last hundred years our life expectancy has risen by twenty years (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-003-x/91-003-x2007001-eng.pdf, page 13). Quality of life we can't debate until we're sure we both agree on what that means - for some it means living longer, for others it means traveling more, for yet others it means having time to do nothing, for yet others it means being able to keep busy.
geez this is not the "debate" I was hoping to stir up.
Meh, eat 10 pounds of red meat a day and never eat a carrot stick, your choice. Just saying a lot of people are considering alternative lifestyles, some of which are a return to some of the aspects of how culture was a few decades ago (but not the complete removal of all technology/science, duh) I'm okay with indoor plumbing and antibiotics and less meat, but that's me.
Not to be snarky, but I thought this was supposed to fuel discussion? As far as I can tell we're having one.
I think the issue at hand (for Thorin at least) is the tone of the original video, Thorin's response was (unless I'm reading it wrong) hyperbolic sarcasm.
Of course to me diet is a personal choice and it should be one based on ones desire for health (or bacon cupcakes whatevs), the main sticking point for me is that some of the language used suggests a philosophy. The trouble with philosophies though is that sometimes they end up sounding a bit preachy (and nobody likes that).
I know what he is trying to say but the way it was delivered sounds an awful lot like "Change your diet or you'll kill the planet. You Monster." this opens a high-sodium cornstarch based GALAXY of worms.
In my opinion, I feel that rather than appealing to a person's intelligence this is being sold by exploiting insecurity, fuelling a sense of superiority over something personal like a dietary change...?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 14, 2012, 03:55:44 PM
Not to be snarky, but I thought this was supposed to fuel discussion? As far as I can tell we're having one.
Sorry boyz, I meant that my "intention" (maybe more like "hope/expectation"?) was not to discuss WHICH dietary choices are healthier or not ... but rather to encourage folks to at least question what has been pretty much accepted practice re. meat intake -- but has not been "common" until the last 50 years or so.
But hey if this dialog heads in the direction of "study X says that Y is not as Z as other folks believe" etc. then fine, it's not like a consensus will be had that way... but might still be interesting info passed around, so have at 'er...
O and for fun 6% of the population are intolerant to gluten, yet it is part of nearly every North American meal.
I'm more confused than ever about what you're trying to say then.
I mean, sort of an obvious "question", you learn what to eat through what your parents fed you, what you learnt in school or through your beliefs or what your physician recommends. Then you learn on your own what your "accepted eating practices" are.
Dietary choices you make would be considered "questioning accepted practise" right? Which is how this conversation evolved I thought. So I don't see how you can make the distinction between the two.
This guy is saying people eat too much meat, right?
So to put you on the spot a little: what are you saying?
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 14, 2012, 05:01:38 PM
So to put you on the spot a little: what are you saying?
Me or Lazy? ;)
personally, I don't have a "goal" in mind for this discussion... I just kinda had a sense when it was very much not what I hoped for (who am I now is less interested in "figuring out the truth" and more interested in sharing the experience with others of seeking it out, even if we never get "there")
The trouble I have with the video is that there are a lot of messages being put forth by a journalist who used a lot of big scary things to sell his pitch (reduce meat, eat local), this is a philosophy. A philosophy being pushed by FUD
This is why it rubs people like myself the wrong way from the get go and we get somewhat antagonistic, we see how people like Mark Bittman try to manipulate thinking through the use of fear rather than actual rationalizing. Big scary numbers, pictures and apocalyptic allegory wooo... it's the exact same tactic that Fox News is known for (IRAN MIGHT BUILD NUKES! OMG!)
LOL
All that said I believe everyone could cut down on their meat intake, meat for most people is the easy choice but it's a choice that comes with health consequences.
:)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 14, 2012, 02:14:45 PM
geez this is not the "debate" I was hoping to stir up.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on March 14, 2012, 05:25:48 PM
personally, I don't have a "goal" in mind for this discussion...
These two quotes seem somewhat at odds with each other. Wasn't your goal to have this conversation steer in one particular direction? In particular, agreement with your viewpoint (as indicated by the original link) that everyone should eat less meat and more plants because meat is killing us?
That's entirely how I took this thread, and I'm not one that likes scare tactics employed to change my behaviour thus my reaction.
Also, I think I'm in a bad mood today so sorry if I'm snarky.
Mr. Analog, I didn't quote the first part of your post, but thank you for reading my mind and putting my thoughts to paper (well, database).
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 14, 2012, 05:54:15 PM
All that said I believe everyone could cut down on their meat intake, meat for most people is the easy choice but it's a choice that comes with health consequences.
From the things I've read, it's not so much the red meat but the fat in the red meat combined with the sedentary lifestyle that cause the arteries to build up plaque and fatty deposits that then lead to heart attacks (or "ischaemic heart disease" - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html).
Then there is the question of if it's fair to use more than our share of resources, which is another point being made there. Well, if everyone in the world played fair life would be great, but just look at what Russia, India, and China are digging out of the ground and throwing into the atmosphere, and you'll soon see that many people around the world want their turn living like kings.
Quote from: Thorin on March 14, 2012, 06:19:07 PM
From the things I've read, it's not so much the red meat but the fat in the red meat combined with the sedentary lifestyle that cause the arteries to build up plaque and fatty deposits that then lead to heart attacks (or "ischaemic heart disease" - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/gluten-what-you-dont-know_b_379089.html
Eating bread might be killing you as well...
Meh.
I apologize for bringing up food and nutrition.
Because that's "outside" stuff. Even with so-called perfect "environment", it's still no guarantee for happiness. Health is not just an absence of illness (or of unhealthy choices).
I'm saying this apparent-gobbledy-gook now due to (yet) another Ted Talk, this one revealing "The Happiness Advantage" ... which is what people going on a diet or cutting down on meat or getting more sleep or whatnot are REALLY motivated by -- the desire for happiness of some kind (http://www.ted.com/themes/what_makes_us_happy.html).
Only it's not that happiness is a RESULT of achieving those goals, nope, those goals are far more attainable if happiness is already being experienced by the goal-seeker. :headasplode: #simpleyetpowerful
http://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work.html
http://www.ted.com/speakers/shawn_achor.html
Quote
"[It?s] the lens through which your brain views the world that shapes your reality. And if we can change the lens, not only can we change your happiness, we can change every single educational and business outcome at the same time."
I'm not sure exactly what you're going through at the moment Darren but it sounds like you're pretty depressed about something, I don't know if it's the tone of your writing or just the subject matter of late but something is up.
If you want give me a call tomorrow
Quite the opposite actually, but thanks for your concern bro.
I'm actually feeling quite happy and hopeful about my life, not just mine but humanity's future as well.
Perhaps it's just as I get on in years and it becomes clearer that many dreams will fade un-attained, but tbh I'm a lot more satisfied with a lot less than what I used to think was necessary to experience satisfaction. I guess "if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need" is true. ;D aka "Happiness is a Choice" (http://www.amazon.ca/Happiness-Choice-Barry-Neil-Kaufman/dp/0449907996).
Because the alternative -- believing/expecting that happiness only will be experienced by achieving/attaining "more" -- simply results in your brain moving that "happiness requirement" bar farther ahead/higher each time you get there, thus delaying happiness ... then it makes sense to be open to the possibility of "synthetic happiness" as described in this talk:
"Tis nothing good or bad ... but thinking makes it so" - Bill Shakespeare (http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html)
^ the MIND-BLOWING results of the experiment with the amnesiacs ... WOW.
as one comment points out: "Many times I think that one of the things I'm looking for is "happiness," & wealth, & fame, & cetera. But if I choose happiness as A WAY, then I've GOT happiness; it becomes a way rather than a destination. Nice, and it might help in getting the others."
Peace out folks, I'm hitting the hay ... quite a bit earlier than usual (happily ;) ).
Awwwwwwww yeah!
I was worried there for a bit (damn internet and inflection can't hearing). I'm feeling super-energized lately, maybe a little sleepier in mornings thanks to DST, but like I feel I could do anything. As I said at the get together I'm outta dis winter funk
I just want to also say thanks for stimulating these conversations, they stir up parts of my brain I don't use that often
:)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 15, 2012, 08:14:39 AM
Awwwwwwww yeah!
I was worried there for a bit
I just want to also say thanks for stimulating these conversations, they stir up parts of my brain I don't use that often
:)
np buddy/pal/friend!
it's nice when the bug in your brain syncs up with stuff you encounter throughout the day, that's kinda what these particular TED talks have been for me, a reinforcement/confirmation of stuff I'm experiencing or kinda figuring out on my own... as I said realizing first-hand that happiness is truly not dependent on "happy-inducing" circumstances is a huge win, but also gives me hope for the world as a whole that others are also moving in that kind of positive direction. I'd rather be (and be surrounded by) sunshine instead of a dark storm cloud :)
I hear ya there, I know I want to spread the sunshine today.
Oh there will be patio today I can tell ya
Hmm, maybe this thread would more accurately be titled "TED Talks I Find Interesting And Why" :)
The secret to happiness is to want what you have, instead of trying to have what you want.
Yup.
And yup. 8)
On that note, just found a very interesting "forum" that is likely full of like-minded truth-seekers etc.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/ (also found this: "Why do we argue?" (lol) http://www.profound-self-help.com/anger-management-self-help.html )
That sounds like a fortune cookie, but it's good advice. (unless you are a Pokemon master, in which case, gotta catch 'em all)
Yes, it sounds like a fortune cookie. But there's always someone with more stuff, more medals, more money, more fame, more hoes and shawtys, more bling, more nuclear arms at their disposal, etc.
Now, if you're at the bottom and don't have anything and your life is really hard because of that, maybe you want to focus on getting some things to make life easier. But once you have the basics of life, demanding a better version of all those things can lead to a very poor life experience.
CHECK OUT MY BALLS
(http://i.imgur.com/CmYUT.jpg)
I HAVE MORE BALLS
Quote from: Mr. Analog on March 15, 2012, 04:05:46 PM
CHECK OUT MY BALLS
(http://i.imgur.com/CmYUT.jpg)
I HAVE MORE BALLS
Some of us aren't as interested in balls as you are, and don't base our happiness on them.
Or on the accumulation (http://thesameffect.com/know-where-youre-going-in-life-you-may-already-be-there/) of other toys.
Speaking of folks happy to play with balls...
Michael Jordan, the failure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc (and, apparently, quite sensitive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBCI13rJmA))
via http://thesameffect.com/eighty-percent-of-success-is-showing-up/
My balls are full of monsters that want to attack
EDIT: I love that this is on the top of a new page
On the subject of things that make you go HMMM (etc.)
Do You Think What You Think You Think? interesting title for a book, found @ http://derrenbrown.co.uk/dbstore/recommended-reading/
Quote
thought-provoking questions about your thinking: Is what you believe coherent and consistent?or a jumble of contradictions? If you could design a God, what would He, She, or It be like? And how will you fare on the tricky terrain of ethics when your taboos are under the spotlight?
Here are a dozen philosophical quizzes guaranteed to make armchair philosophers uncomfortably shift in their seats. The answers will reveal what you really think?and it may not be what you thought. Fun, challenging, and surprising, this book will enable you to discover the you you never knew you were.
But then, a review/comment gives food for thought...
Quote
It's not what you think
It promises to uncover the reader's beliefs, and to help strengthen and identify one's core philosophy.
If you're looking for a little entertainment, with a Philosophy 101 bent, Do You Think What You Think You Think? might keep you busy for a while. If you're hoping to actually learn anything about yourself or discover a new way of thinking about life's big questions, keep searching.
It's just a teaching tool to get you to think about your own rationality.
...well I gotta admit the title is certainly attention-grabbing :) But the SUBJECT is one that I have lately been on a bit of a "kick" --
who am I, how can I be so sure, and why am I this "me" that I currently am? (and [how] can I change?) (no holding to any "investment" of the past, spent in locking down the current "me", who will I now BECOME?)
/armchairphilosopher mode off
To answer those questions:
- You are who you are, regardless of who you think you are
- You can be sure because you can only be who you are, because if you were not who you are then you would not be you
- You are who you are because you chose the choices you have chosen
- You cannot change who you are, but you can change what choices you choose from the choices you can choose; you will still be who you are but you may no longer be the same as who you were
- You will become who you will become, just as you are who you are; who you will become depends on the choices that you choose from the choices that you can choose and on the events that happen without you being able to choose if they happen or not
I think you're more asking about whether you like the person you are (or believe yourself to be), and if not, how you can change yourself to be more like the person you want to be. This is basically an id/ego/superego struggle. All about the id, the ego, and the superego: http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/a/personalityelem.htm. These three items make you who you are, according to Sigmund Freud.
Quote from: Thorin on March 29, 2012, 08:14:52 PM
To answer those questions:
- You are who you are, regardless of who you think you are
- You can be sure because you can only be who you are, because if you were not who you are then you would not be you
- You are who you are because you chose the choices you have chosen
- You cannot change who you are, but you can change what choices you choose from the choices you can choose; you will still be who you are but you may no longer be the same as who you were
- You will become who you will become, just as you are who you are; who you will become depends on the choices that you choose from the choices that you can choose and on the events that happen without you being able to choose if they happen or not
Why? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJlV49RDlLE)
Why what?