Apparently there's a company now selling paving slabs that are two feet by one and a half feet that generate 7 watts of electricity for each step taken on them: http://www.pavegen.com/
That's kinda cool! They were installed in London for the Olympics, and are now on the Champs Elysees in Paris for a marathon that's planned there, to try and make the event create more electricity than it produces.
These actually make sense in some of the densest cities where there are places that there are always people walking.
My first concern would be durability and maintenance cost.
This kind of tech should be used in heavily trafficked buildings like shopping centres. I don't think it would last too long in places that have large temperature ranges, but for indoor stuff it could certainly offset power use.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 03:22:31 PM
This kind of tech should be used in heavily trafficked buildings like shopping centres. I don't think it would last too long in places that have large temperature ranges, but for indoor stuff it could certainly offset power use.
With the rate escalators break down in malls etc I still would be concerned.
Well I'm guessing that under-floor kinetic energy generation would require a lot less moving parts than an escalator.
One would hope anyway!
"MALL OUT OF SERVICE" sign!
Well it's a unique take on electricity generation and it has been installed in a couple of outdoor locations in Europe already. I'm sure it's not cost effective yet, but hey, wind-generated energy isn't cost effective yet, either, except for in very particular areas of the world.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 03:22:31 PM
This kind of tech should be used in heavily trafficked buildings like shopping centres. I don't think it would last too long in places that have large temperature ranges, but for indoor stuff it could certainly offset power use.
Funny you mention that, isn't there a growing area of study/technology that deals with generating/storing energy (or maybe it's heat/cooling, but that's just energy anyway) from temperature changes in the earth? So why not harness the "under the hood" stuff in geothermal components and modify it to use this?
Thermal energy is big business already, I'm talking seasonal changes where we go from +30 C to -30 C, which rips apart pretty much anything made of concrete or asphalt.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 03:50:04 PM
Thermal energy is big business already, I'm talking seasonal changes where we go from +30 C to -30 C, which rips apart pretty much anything made of concrete or asphalt.
It ain't the heat (and cold) IT'S THE [changes in] HUMIDITY #effinpotholes
Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 03:50:04 PM
Thermal energy is big business already, I'm talking seasonal changes where we go from +30 C to -30 C, which rips apart pretty much anything made of concrete or asphalt.
It ain't the heat (and cold) IT'S THE [changes in] HUMIDITY #effinpotholes
. . .
WHAT UNIVERSE DO YOU LIVE IN
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
It ain't the heat (and cold) IT'S THE [changes in] HUMIDITY #effinpotholes
. . .
WHAT UNIVERSE DO YOU LIVE IN
The one where [changes in] moisture + changing temperature --> ice forming and melting --> cracks in asphalt --> POTHOLES FROM HELL
Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 08, 2013, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 08, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
It ain't the heat (and cold) IT'S THE [changes in] HUMIDITY #effinpotholes
. . .
WHAT UNIVERSE DO YOU LIVE IN
The one where [changes in] moisture + changing temperature --> ice forming and melting --> cracks in asphalt --> POTHOLES FROM HELL
You don't need moisture in the equation (though it hastens the process), by rapidly changing the temperature you inherently weaken the structure of composite materials like construction aggregate because of the differing specific heat capacity of the ingredient components. Water expands when frozen but in order for it to affect material like concrete it must first penetrate fractures that have
already been formed by thermal expansion.
Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 08, 2013, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 08, 2013, 04:16:29 PM
...-->POTHOLES FROM HELL
You don't need moisture in the equation (though it hastens the process), by rapidly changing the temperature you inherently weaken the structure of composite materials like construction aggregate because of the differing specific heat capacity of the ingredient components. Water expands when frozen but in order for it to affect material like concrete it must first penetrate fractures that have already been formed by thermal expansion.
(http://east.lapeerschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_3099604/Image/SCIENCE_ROCKS_LG.jpg)
... I guess I was under the impression that this year's way-worse-than-ever-before insanity on the roads is because of a "perfect storm" of components:
a winter filled with an above-average frequency of warm-and-cold extremes
+
a ridic amount of precipitation (usually during the warmer times, thus able to keep completely-filling them blasted cracks in the roads)
+
later cooler temperatures thus making the water expand (just like a can of soda in the freezer, the liquid does H2O's crazyweird expansion within the +4C..0C range and doesn't have room to expand and thus pushes out the material containing it)
+
plenty of impatient drivers who don't know how to slow down and/or avoid the holes that mighta stayed a reasonably smallish size if morons didn't keep increasing of the frequency of all those chipping-away-at-the-edges science moments multiple times a day
=
major winter blahs (well past March) :barf:
At least that's a combination of my own anecdotal experience driving this season plus something I remember hearing like a decade or thereabouts.
That's funny Darren, you say it's not the temperature and then in the next two posts you say it's the changes in temperature.
..
Our potholes have potholes this year.
There was one that was lengthwise on the road (instead of across it), just the width of my Suburban's wheel. I felt the tire go in and then get deformed as it came out the other side. It was a good six inch drop, which if I were driving a regular car I would've bottomed out and been stuck with one wheel wedged in the road.
Anyway, alternate electricity generation through capturing the energy inherent in walking, still a cool idea.
If it can be done by feet why not by tire? Think of that energy generation possibility!
Damnit i had this idea a few years ago. Should have patened it.
The weight of vehicles might make it more difficult to produce a reliable slab.
I wonder what it feels like to step on.
Quote from: Thorin on April 09, 2013, 08:10:15 AM
The weight of vehicles might make it more difficult to produce a reliable slab.
I wonder what it feels like to step on.
To avoid vibration and waves these would have to work on pressure more than some kind of travel distance... I suspect it would be like stepping on a modern electronic bathroom scale near zero movement
Ice really does make the whole freeze-thaw situation worse. It gets into cracks and pushes them apart, then will seep under the layers of ashphalt and pop them apart. I agree temperature changes alone aren't very good for composite materials, but water and ice are at least as bad if not worse. And hey, water is also a solvent.
Ground upheaval is another issue yes, I often wonder if superior drainage/bedding would solve some of our pothole woes.
I mean places like Toronto deal with a lot of moisture year round and yet their roads are awesome, you go somewhere that has a huge temperature range though (like Mani, Sask or Alberta) and the roads are @%&#.