Righteous Wrath Online Community

So anyone else catch this one last night?  I actually enjoyed it, despite reviews being somewhat positive and negative. Lead character seems to be a cross between Han Solo and Firefly's captain.  Good humour, if a bit cliche, but still had my wife laughing even if it was predictable to a SciFi nut like me.  CG was great in some places and Sanctuary Blue Screen in others (so for me tolerable).  Story was really 3 plots in one, but all in all it flowed nicely.

The tie-in to the game consisted of some name drops and quick references.  I suspect it will be a few episodes yet before any real tie-ins start to happen.

Overall I give the show a 8/10.  I'd say a better launch than SG1, but not as good as Firefly launch.

...DANGIT

I knew I was supposed to add it to my PVR last night.

I turned it on even but saw I had an episode of Mad Men I hadn't yet watched and forgot all about it

I caught it at, like, 1am.  Well, I missed the first ten minutes so missed some of the plot.

Simple question, why would the Volge march down a valley that is a clear and obvious ambush point if 1) they are warriors and 2) they are climbers?

It does help to read the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series).  But to me, there are too many logic holes in the show thus far.  Why are they driving a 40 year old car in a world that's supposedly been completely or partially terraformed?  Has no newer transportation technology been invented?  And where do they buy the gas?  Why are they using M16s and MP5s?  On the one hand a bunch of technology has been lost but on the other hand after seven years of war they use shiny new-looking 40-year-old tech?  Hasn't history shown that war causes the fastest advancements in technology as the opponents try to out-research each other in a bid to stay alive and win?

I understand that this TV series is tied to an MMO.  To me, it seems like much of the backstory was filled in to create a compelling MMO (we need multiple races with cool abilities!), not to make a logical near-future story.

LOL your questions would fit so well with Firefly' back story too.  If the universe had advance so far why were thy dressed and acting like cowboys?  Why did they still use scalpels and needles when they had lasers and shielding?  Why did they use 6 shooter hand guns instead of plasma blasters?

In Terminator future, the rebels use rifles and machine guns from the 90s against machines with lasers and pulse weapons.  Sure they also uses new tech, but so does Nolan have an advanced pistol in his possession.

I think it has to do with the whole post-apocalyptic atmosphere of the planet and that most of the "scientist" types were killed or lost before the piece.  Why the arc-tech has to be salvaged from the falling space debris from above.  I think the tech is lost or the ability to make the tech requires some mineral or element not inherit to earth.

The game doesn't fill in these gaps either, at least in the first 20 "levels" (I call them levels but it really doesn't have the same traditional leveling system of an MMO) or so.

I have to agree about the not so tactful assault on Defiance.  But hey maybe they are a great warrior race but not to bright in terms of strategy - perhaps that is how the humans beat them or survived against them in the Earth wars, obviously out matched in technology.

Yeah I no not where they get the gas... we assume they run on gas.  They never explained that, just implied with the gas cans in the back of the Runners (the actual term used in the game for the vehicle Nolan drives).

While it fails in some "so unrealistic" plot points or techology gaps, it is a Fiction first.  Realistic might be something you might have to allow for a broad spectrum.  I wouldn't count it out based on that, otherwise shows like Firefly, Farscape, Eureka, etc wouldn't have ever worked.

But if truly you didn't like it, then you didn't like it.  That is the feeling I get from your post, as least in its initial launch.  For me it fits in my missing true SciFi bracket as I don't watch Dr. Who.

Yep, there are a lot of holes, but most TV Scifi is full of them.

Possoble spoilers?

Spoiler

Most of the earth tech is old because well they did not do that well in the war and almost all of earths tech was messed up by the terraforming and debri impacts.

Most of the alien tech is being salvaged from ships that where sealed or exposed to the vacuum of space.

Given that that army was marching with heavy tank like devices the valley was probably the only option for assault. without the special improvised weapon their losses would have been minimal as they where doing a good job of climbing up those walls to take out the humans...

It could be explained as massive over confidence and bad intel, they had a man on the inside that had dropped the shields already they probably didn't even expect a fight. They probably just expected to move some heavy equipment in and to hold the positions.

[close]

Damnit I always forget about the spoiler stuff!

Quote from: Thorin on April 16, 2013, 11:29:02 AM
It does help to read the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(TV_series).

That does help actually.  Read it over lunch, and is very helpful in filling in some information.  Even answers some of the questions posted here.

I think what bugs me is this show basically comes off as hipster me-too sci-fi with thinly-veiled product marketing as its aim.

product marketing to come:

Spoiler

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2013/04/dodge_charger_to_star_in_syfys.html

What the @%&#, a car designed in 2008 and freshened in 2012 is going to be the "hero" of a show set in post-apocalyptic terraformed 2046?  With another car of the same vintage and brand available in the tied-in video game?

And I thought Hawaii Five-O was bad for the clear GM sponsorship, but at least there they just drive the cars, not talk about them or worship them as heroes.

[close]

I wonder if they will actually name the car and its features. I figure it is just clever funding and marketing when they know a % of the audience is likely to be downloading the show instead of watching it on TV.

Anyone remember the cringe worthy references to the Nissan rogue in Heros?

Yup, I remember (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-9784855-48.html). There were several other Nissan vehicles placed as well, but none quite as stupendously obvious as the Rogue.  Well, except for Hiro's demand that it must be a Nissan Versa (http://heroeswiki.com/Product_placement#One_Giant_Leap).

I have daughters of the right age for Twilight to have been displayed on my home theater a few times. In Twilight, Volvo premiered its C30 as the car that Edward drives. There was this big driving scene where it's just him driving the Volvo somewhere. Now, in the books there are car brands dropped left, right, and center, and Volvo was already Edward's brand. But still, the way they show the Volvo car is always showing the brand plate, whether exterior or interior shot.

Still, if you don't care about spoilers read the link in the spoiler tag in my previous post.

Spoiler

They put the car in a friggin' car show, for @%&#'s sake. The car that will be on the show. And then they brag all about how you can drive a similar car in the game.

[close]

Personally I find it way too blatant.

So you also hated the dukes of hazard, knight rider, knight rider 2000, herbie, bond films, viper cannonball run and the back to the future movies?

Lots of car and car show tie ins in those.

Then there is Transformers (all 3 movies), Batman, Bad Boys, Italian Job, Transporter (all movies)... lol its nothing new to do sponsorship, blatant sponsorship in a movie when it comes to cars.

Bones TV show is really bad at promoting Toyotas; they will frequently have discussions about features of a Toyota car or vehicle, promoting hands free parking, millage, etc between Bones and Booth.  Hawaii Five O (both versions as per your previous post) also are heavy car advertisers.

Its one of those things that I can't fault a TV show IMO.  Like Lazy pointed out, whether it is from downloads or PVRs, lots of people simply do not watch commercials anymore so marketing is going to find other ways to advertise brands, logos and models.

And marketing pays for the production of shows.


Which is why I am interested in seein how well Netflix, Hulu and Amazon do with their original programming at a fixed subscription cost.

Quote from: Thorin on April 16, 2013, 06:54:32 PM
I have daughters of the right age for Twilight to have been displayed on my home theater a few times. In Twilight, Volvo premiered its C30 as the car that Edward drives. There was this big driving scene where it's just him driving the Volvo somewhere. Now, in the books there are car brands dropped left, right, and center, and Volvo was already Edward's brand. But still, the way they show the Volvo car is always showing the brand plate, whether exterior or interior shot.

WOW, there's blatant product placement (which is usually a very visual thing) inside BOOKS now?

By the way, am I alone in that it's impossible NOT to think of A Certain TV Show That Shark-Jumped In Season 2 (http://heroeswiki.com/Nissan_Versa) when they see a Nissan Versa driving by? (so I guess PP works)

Wow, I forgot all about the Ford Focus and TD bank inserts into the show Being Erica.

The Twilight books were not involved in product placement - as far as I know this was just an author trying to flesh out the world.  Porsche and Mercedes are mentioned several times, to show how rich the rich kids are at the school.  In the movies, they make sure to show the Volvo nameplate (and not those of other cars) and full-length shots of the of the Volvos used by the characters.  This was done after the studio approached Volvo and said, "Your brand is named in the book, would you like to pay to have your product showcased?"

Quote from: Lazybones on April 16, 2013, 09:28:16 PM
So you also hated the dukes of hazard, knight rider, knight rider 2000, herbie, bond films, viper cannonball run and the back to the future movies?

Dukes, Knight Rider, Herbie, Cannonball Run, the Bond films, and Back to the Future didn't have marketing speak delivered as part of the show.  In Knight Rider and Herbie the cars became hero cars, but they weren't brought out at car shows before the show even aired - that is, the show was more important, not the car.  In the case of Defiance, the car (the product) is more important as it was shown off before the show came out.

Quote from: Melbosa on April 17, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
Then there is Transformers (all 3 movies), Batman, Bad Boys, Italian Job, Transporter (all movies)... lol its nothing new to do sponsorship, blatant sponsorship in a movie when it comes to cars.

Bones TV show is really bad at promoting Toyotas; they will frequently have discussions about features of a Toyota car or vehicle, promoting hands free parking, millage, etc between Bones and Booth.  Hawaii Five O (both versions as per your previous post) also are heavy car advertisers.

Its one of those things that I can't fault a TV show IMO.  Like Lazy pointed out, whether it is from downloads or PVRs, lots of people simply do not watch commercials anymore so marketing is going to find other ways to advertise brands, logos and models.

Transformers, Batman, Bad Boys, The Italian Job, Transporter, all of these I feel the same about as the ones Lazy pointed out.  While there is product placement, the show is about the show, not about the product.  As for Bones, I don't watch it but characters discussing the fuel economy of a car without a really good reason would drive me batty.

Now, I listen to Those Old Radio Shows on 630 CHED quite frequently, and I can tell you that product placement was way more blatant in the late 50s than it has been for the last twenty years.  Like, characters breaking the fourth wall to tell you all about new Palmolive Dish Detergent, and it's really jarring.  When I see shows that put the product first and the show second, I worry we're returning to those days.

At the same time, I don't mind at all subtle product placement.  We need computers in an office, hey they're all Dell or Apple and the workers are clicking away diligently.  We need a fleet of cars for the undercover cops, the fleet manager bought them all from Chevy.  We have a scene with rich kids' luggage getting searched at the airport, a couple of the pairs of jeans in the pile happen to have their Guess logo facing towards the camera.  Some crooks are scheming how to rob a bank and get pizza delivered, and they happen to have ordered from Domino's.  Some kids are walking through the mall discussing life and one of them buys a pop and it happens to be from a Pepsi vending machine.

Notice in all those scenarios the scene made sense, the characters were doing something that made sense for their characters, and we just happen to be shown the logo.  It's all about the presentation.

Quote from: Thorin on April 17, 2013, 10:12:06 AM
Dukes, Knight Rider, Herbie, Cannonball Run, the Bond films, and Back to the Future didn't have marketing speak delivered as part of the show.

Ummm...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xteH6y0Mr0k

kinda close. Not exactly full of the current slogans at the time, but MJF was in Pepsi commercials at the time, IIRC.

But you're right, if it's logically coherent at the time of the visual presentation (or the character dialog -- such as Michael Scott suggesting the DM staff head over to Chili's* at lunchtime) then it's not nearly as jarring as the live talk show host interupting a conversation to look at the camera and promote Ovaltine or Fred Flintstone waving a cigarette in your face...





*although he DID sing the "I want your baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back ribs" song iirc

OK I get now the deliverable can be a problem.  I am trying to see where the product deliverable was in the Pilot of Defiance or in the Game?   The game has Dodge Car and a Dodge Quad.  The show had a Dodge Car that I remember, but didn't notice any discussions about Dodge Vehicles or Buy Dodge ad in the TV Show.  So I thought we were debating the fact that Dodge obviously sponsored the show/game.

Transformers was so bad at making sure you saw the Chev symbol on the front Gril of most car shots I immediately picked up on the product placement and sales push in the movie.  I didn't see that much of an iconic pan over the Dodge in Defiance, but perhaps it is coming in future episodes that the media has seen but I haven't.

So, I was a little tired watching the Pilot, what did I miss in regard to the Dodge Propaganda?

I don't think the Car even appeared in the pilot.  I think this is nerd rage over the car appearing in external auto marketing first.

You didn't expand my spoiler tag?  It has a link that explains exactly when the car will be revealed.  They discuss how this car is gonna add a bunch to the series and it's gonna become a hero and all that.  "The vehicles are integrated into the storylines [< exact timing removed >], becoming main characters in the story".

If they just put in the car and showed it's brand plate and didn't do announcements and displays at car shows and say the cars are going to be "main characters", it wouldn't bother me at all.

Transformers originally wanted a New Beetle for Bumblebee but Volkswagen refused.  Then the producers turned to Chevrolet and its Camaro.  It also features a Ford Mustang.  We didn't have to listen about fuel economy or comfort or 0-60 times for either of these cars, and the only reason they were heroes / villains is because Transformers is about cars and other vehicles that transform into robots.  What is Defiance about, cars that save the post-apocalyptic world?

Yeah, maybe it's nerd rage or maybe I just don't like shows that are overtly advertising vessels.

Not sure if this is an actual thing yet (I assume it is) but there was an article in 2011 about a company that was gearing up to make product placement something that could be updated after post production to ensure that even if sponsors changed the content could be updated with the latest product placements.

http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/08/16/digital-technology-and-the-re-birth-of-product-placement/

Quote from: Mr. Analog on April 17, 2013, 02:41:54 PM
Not sure if this is an actual thing yet (I assume it is) but there was an article in 2011 about a company that was gearing up to make product placement something that could be updated after post production to ensure that even if sponsors changed the content could be updated with the latest product placements.

http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/08/16/digital-technology-and-the-re-birth-of-product-placement/

Yes folks, we are in the present day have inexpensive tech that is able to in real-time fulfill the disturbing future depicted in The Running Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbRdEyPbeSE#t=3m23s

Quote from: Thorin on April 17, 2013, 02:35:34 PM
You didn't expand my spoiler tag?

I did.  Just thought the issue was with it in the show itself.  I better understand what bothers you now.  Doesn't bother me I guess as long as it doesn't become an advertisement in my TV show (it can be showcased, but if they start doing detailed stats or sales pitches then that will bother me).

Bones kinda does this in the show, but they usually do with some humour or situation that glosses it over.  I still notice and am a bit bothered though when they do.

Quote from: Melbosa on April 17, 2013, 04:23:11 PM
Bones kinda does this in the show, but they usually do with some humour or situation that glosses it over.  I still notice and am a bit bothered though when they do.

If by "kinda" you mean it's usually at the top of the list* when web forum posts / blogs discuss PP in tv shows (http://www.google.com/search?q=Bones+product+placement). (Apparently.)

Quote from: http://blog.commarts.wisc.edu/2010/04/13/egregious-product-placement-toyota-bones/
Daisy (looking around interior of car): Why do you drive a minivan? Do you have kids that we don?t know about?
Angela: I?m an artist, Daisy, and the Sienna has plenty of room, plus I stink at parallel parking and that back-up camera thing is like the invention of the century.

Although Google for tv shows with most product placement came up with some far worse offenders, past and present:

http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-some-of-tvs-best-product-placements-2012-3?op=1








I got some chuckles last week though...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=today+now!+7-up+10





* (along with Fringe and Chuck)

Quote from: Darren Dirt on April 17, 2013, 05:28:40 PM
If by "kinda" you mean it's usually at the top of the list* when web forum posts / blogs discuss PP in tv shows (http://www.google.com/search?q=Bones+product+placement). (Apparently.)

Nope I meant kinda as someone whom casually watches the show and doesn't pay too much attention so couldn't gauge for sure if it was a real issue, so used kinda to imply I think they sorta do.  But I see you mean "they do" :P