I got a new toy today at a gov't surplus auction. APC Smart-UPS dla1500 \o/ seems the battery is dead, most likely (unless it gets around to charging, it was discharged quite deeply...). But for $50 I can spend another $100 on replacement batteries and still end up saving a crap load of money. Newer models of the same basic ups are $500+. $150 is rather decent if you ask me. I think the server will be quite happy with this.
Eww, but it smells like like government
You'll get all sleepy and reticent about change!
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 15, 2013, 04:32:20 PM
Eww, but it smells like like government
You'll get all sleepy and reticent about change!
Been that way long before I hit the auction ;)
lol
Check around for local battery reconditioning shops. The APC brand packs should be common enough to find something reconditioned.
I'll warn you, the packs can often make up a huge chunk of the cost for those things new, well when you include shipping and recycling fees.. I don't think I have ever replaced the batteries in any of those 1500 or less units.
Then again these days I have to deal with rack size units with 14+ cells in them.
I found a canadian place that'll sell a new APC pack for $112 plus $25~ shipping. The regular price for one of these units is $550~ plus shipping. I don't think most of the price is the battery ;)
I was going to take a trip to Battery World, they should have some 12v 18ah SLAs but I have no idea when I'll be able to get someone to give me a lift, so I may just order online.
Batteryworld in Edmonton will have replacements for it I believe.
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 10:20:14 AM
Batteryworld in Edmonton will have replacements for it I believe.
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 04:25:24 AM
I was going to take a trip to Battery World, they should have some 12v 18ah SLAs but I have no idea when I'll be able to get someone to give me a lift, so I may just order online.
I figured as much. :)
I don't know for sure though, you might want to call.
Yeah, the main problem is getting there and back. Or at least back. It's not in the most convenient of locations for a carless person such as myself.
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 10:38:18 AM
Yeah, the main problem is getting there and back. Or at least back. It's not in the most convenient of locations for a carless person such as myself.
LOL While we are all willing to help out there, you can solve that problem on your own... ;)
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 10:40:25 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 10:38:18 AM
Yeah, the main problem is getting there and back. Or at least back. It's not in the most convenient of locations for a carless person such as myself.
LOL While we are all willing to help out there, you can solve that problem on your own... ;)
Well I asked a friend here in the park, he's busy for the next little while.
And I'd appreciate a ride from anyone here willing to help out, but I figure its too big a pain in the ass to drive out here, then there, then back, just to help me save a few bucks on batteries. I'm not against it though. I'll even pay for lunch/dinner if anyone does help out.
As for the car thing, I can't drive by myself for at least a year after I pass the test. So it's absolutely stupid to get a car. I'm thinking of getting a bike, but finances are tight right now (6 weeks of no pay is kinda harsh), so no spending a few thousand or more on a motorbike or even a moped.
And taking a cab even just one way would probably make it cost more than just ordering on line.
I've actually considered my options ;) I'm not quite as clueless as people seem to think I am.
Dude, woah, it wasn't meant to be a "think about it", it was more like a "only you can prevent forest fires" pun. Sorry, guess that didn't make it across.
Myself, I won't be able to get to you until Sunday at the earliest, and that will be a short window for me. Booked pretty solid for the rest of the week!!!
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 11:09:30 AM
Dude, woah, it wasn't meant to be a "think about it", it was more like a "only you can prevent forest fires" pun. Sorry, guess that didn't make it across.
I don't see it to be honest :(
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 11:09:30 AM
Myself, I won't be able to get to you until Sunday at the earliest, and that will be a short window for me. Booked pretty solid for the rest of the week!!!
No problem.
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 11:09:30 AM
Dude, woah, it wasn't meant to be a "think about it", it was more like a "only you can prevent forest fires" pun. Sorry, guess that didn't make it across.
I don't see it to be honest :(
Guess it sounded better in my head.
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 11:46:08 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Melbosa on May 16, 2013, 11:09:30 AM
Dude, woah, it wasn't meant to be a "think about it", it was more like a "only you can prevent forest fires" pun. Sorry, guess that didn't make it across.
I don't see it to be honest :(
Guess it sounded better in my head.
Or its just my brain completely missing something.
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 10:50:38 AM
As for the car thing, I can't drive by myself for at least a year after I pass the test. So it's absolutely stupid to get a car. I'm thinking of getting a bike, but finances are tight right now (6 weeks of no pay is kinda harsh), so no spending a few thousand or more on a motorbike or even a moped.
Umm... Which test? Are you going for class 7? With a class 7 you can't drive by yourself ever. Class 5? You can drive by yourself the moment you get a class 5. Motorbike? You'll need a class 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 7 as a learners' license for class 6, and you can't go out riding the motorbike without a class 6 licensed instructor on another bike with you.
And I thought you had a moped with pedals to get around now?
Quote from: Thorin on May 16, 2013, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 10:50:38 AM
As for the car thing, I can't drive by myself for at least a year after I pass the test. So it's absolutely stupid to get a car. I'm thinking of getting a bike, but finances are tight right now (6 weeks of no pay is kinda harsh), so no spending a few thousand or more on a motorbike or even a moped.
Umm... Which test? Are you going for class 7? With a class 7 you can't drive by yourself ever. Class 5? You can drive by yourself the moment you get a class 5. Motorbike? You'll need a class 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 7 as a learners' license for class 6, and you can't go out riding the motorbike without a class 6 licensed instructor on another bike with you.
Indeed. If I try and get my class 5, I can't drive a car by myself till I'm out of probation. It takes a year to get to the point where you are then restricted in other ways, which lasts two more years... It's really stupid for (single) adults. It's trying to promote practice, instead I get no experience what so ever.
Quote from: Thorin on May 16, 2013, 01:09:20 PM
And I thought you had a moped with pedals to get around now?
It'll never get me to Battery World, let alone back.
Well I wasn't referring to getting to Battery World specifically, more a general statement about being able to get around.
I'm not sure where you heard the details about class 5 and not being allowed to drive alone until you're out of "probation"? Here's the scoop that I'm aware of: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType47/Production/graduateddriverlic.pdf source: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/543.htm#Graduated_Driver_Licensing
To receive a class 5 you have to have held a class 7 for one year and then pass a road test. While you have the class 7 you have to have an accompanying driver. Most people pay for driving lessons, and the instructor is then the accompanying driver. Once you've had your class 7 for one year and then pass a road test, you get your class 5 and can then drive all by yourself anywhere, anytime. Getting the class 7 is a theory test, so does not require previous driving experience, only theoretical knowledge.
The normal path to driving yourself is:
1. study for class 7 theory test
2. pass class 7 theory test
3. take driving lessons
4. study for class 5 road test
5. one year after getting class 7, pass class 5 GDL road test
6. don't drink and drive, don't break driving laws, don't get license suspended, don't try to teach others to drive
7. two years after getting class 5 GDL, pass class 5 advanced road test
8. still don't drink and drive
I think the part you're complaining about is that you're not living with your folks and able to learn how to drive using their car - instead you'll have to pay someone to teach you (or ask friends; I've got an old Volvo that if you "accidentally" busted it up while learning I wouldn't mind).
But step 1 is getting your class 7.
I wasn't talking about getting a class 7. But being able to drive. The fact that they split it up like that doesn't change the fact that it takes 3 years to get a full class 5. And the entire first year, you can't drive at all without someone with a license with you.
Sure getting the class 7 gdl thing is the very first step, but who cares? that's not the goal.
Quote from: Thorin on May 16, 2013, 02:00:38 PM
I think the part you're complaining about is that you're not living with your folks and able to learn how to drive using their car - instead you'll have to pay someone to teach you (or ask friends; I've got an old Volvo that if you "accidentally" busted it up while learning I wouldn't mind).
That's nice and all, but you'd have to be there as well, or someone would. Most likely you, as I doubt you'll add me to your insurance. I'm pretty sure you're waaay too busy to help out often enough to really matter.
p.s. if I sound grouchy, thats because I got up at 3 am.
The major difference between the GDL class 5 and the full class 5 is how many demerit points you can get before your license gets suspended. If you don't speed and don't run red lights and stop for stop signs (ie don't get demerit points), this has no effect on your ability to drive around town on your own.
The second most major difference is zero BAC (blood alcohol content) tolerance with a GDL class 5 vs 0.08 BAC tolerance with full class 5 (although with 0.05 BAC you get a 24-hour suspension these days). This effects your ability to drive around town on your own if you're drinking alcohol but I wouldn't say having to say sober is a major inconvenience.
So really a one year wait period, during which time you can have friends, family, or professionals teach you how to drive. Having been a pretty horrific driver when I first started, I can see the value in easing people into piloting a couple of tons of steel at 100km/h.
As far as helping learn to drive, all you have to do is ask. I can lend my car out to any licensed driver and my insurance will cover them and them-teaching-you without having to add either them or you to my insurance; I'm just on the hook if anything happens. I have several times lent my car out to friends so they can learn how to drive. And going driving with a buddy a couple of times a week for a few months so that they can get comfortable driving and get their class 5 and get a car and the improved quality of life that comes with personal mobility, I don't mind that.
But one point you seem to gloss over is the driving lessons - most kids take driving lessons even though their parents could teach them, because the parents understand that the $500 for ten one-hour lessons will teach those kids much more quickly than driving with mom while she's white-knuckling the oh-@%&# handles. I'd recommend you take them.
The lessons are more like $1000-1500 these days, at least if you go with AMA or whoever.
I've looked into it. Though I haven't yet looked very hard (have a little, didn't find much) for smaller driver training places.
I do understand the reason behind the changes. In fact, I'm all for the intent behind it. But it really makes it an incredibly painful experience for adults.
Yeah, just looked at AMA, it's $809 (+ GST, so $849.45) for 10 hours in-car and 18 hours in-class. It used to be cheaper, although they offer a $100 off the first year of insurance through AMA, so that'd make it $750 net. I know my mother is paying for my son's driving lessons as a birthday present from last year and I'm sure she's not paying that much.
So what would you like them to change about the licensing process?
Quote from: Thorin on May 16, 2013, 04:14:29 PM
Yeah, just looked at AMA, it's $809 (+ GST, so $849.45) for 10 hours in-car and 18 hours in-class.
If you go with the absolute bare minimum course. I'd like to get some of the extras. which are $$$$.
Quote from: Thorin on May 16, 2013, 04:14:29 PM
It used to be cheaper, although they offer a $100 off the first year of insurance through AMA, so that'd make it $750 net. I know my mother is paying for my son's driving lessons as a birthday present from last year and I'm sure she's not paying that much.
So what would you like them to change about the licensing process?
I honestly don't know. It'd be nice if they could grandfather in some people, if you're over XXX age, go with the old setup.
Okay, so, I got my class 5 license in 1990 when I turned 16. That was 23 years ago. Even back then, you had to get your class 7 first and then take the road test and then you'd get your class 5. At the time it wasn't called GDL (graduated drivers license), but we were still limited to 8 demerit points instead of 15 and zero tolerance for alcohol for the first two years and only as many people in the vehicle as seatbelts (this was back when you could still put people in the back of a pickup) - all the same restrictions as a class 5 GDL has now.
So the only difference would be that I didn't have to wait a year from when I got my class 7 to be able to get my class 5.
Well, you know what else was different? Insurance costs. My first year of insurance was $3,122, $260.17 per month. That included a discount for the driver training I got. A brand new driver with driver training in 2012 paid $1,403, $116.92 per month. This savings is due to the grid system that has been implemented (calculator here: http://www.airb.alberta.ca/gridrate/AirbGrid1.aspx), but when that grid system came in six or eight years ago, it started at roughly $1,800 per year. Insurance rates have gone down because collisions and thus claims against insurance have been reduced. Forcing new drivers to actually learn to drive before being allowed to slide behind the wheel solo and with a couple of beers for the road in their system has helped reduce those collisions.
As for grandfathering, it sounds more like you're complaining about the rules applying to you. Would you be happy if they grandfathered all people five years older than you? Probably not, you'd still have to wait.
So, are you going to get / have you gotten your class 7?
I will be getting my class 7 "soon".
I wouldn't be against some rules saying that you can bypass the first learners year by passing a rigorous training course and test. I think that'd be just fine. Even if it cost $1500, I'd probably pay it.
As it is, it seems so pointless, that the overwhelming desire for me to not be so /stuck/ out here, is dampened.
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 03:01:49 PM
The entire first year, you can't drive at all without someone with a license with you.
Always been that way, when you have Class 7 aka Learner's Permit.
Finally gonna chime in on the rest (briefly -- well, as briefly as Darren is able, lol)
My son got his Class 5 license a few weeks ago. Ignoring the emotional aspect, as a parent (proud at first, then scared even though he's got a sharper more defensive mind than half of the idiots I see on Edmonton roads, then WooHoo Happy I can send him out to the store or whatever and not have to be the one driving HIM all the time!) ... what I understand is that the "graduated" etc. changes to the Class 5 = only MINIMAL changes to what it was 25 years ago when I got my driver's.
When you pass the written test you get your "Class 7" which allows you to drive with a licensed Class 5 driver in the passenger seat, until MIDNIGHT.
When you pass the ROAD TEST to get your "Class 5", you immediately are able to drive alone. UNTIL MIDNIGHT.
The only other changes have to do with the delay of time between getting the Class 7 and the Class 5 (which must be annoying to adults who finally want to get legit, but HEY the reason for it is EXPERIENCE on the actual ROADS; it's a different world out there vs. on the written page!) , as well as # of demerits or Blood Alcohol Level allowed ... too lazy right now to look that stuff up, but they're pretty nasty tightening of the rules. Might help discourage the very young/high schoolers from drinking before driving (maybe even "at all" since they never know when they gotta drive!) but AFAIK none of the rules re. driving alone have changed once you have your Class 5.
My son got a LOT of experience behind the wheel with me sitting beside him (as well as his mom, but a large majority was ME anxiously pulling out my remaining hair while he fish-tailed on the Worst Winter Roads Ever or went over the biggest of the Worst Potholes Ever, but hey now he's a VERY confident and skilled driver!) ... fortunately he didn't need to take a Driver Training school/class as a result (although he took a "pre-test" course for like $60 or $80 that he said really helped him to know what to make sure he nailed on the road test).
/EndOfEssay
The other change, which you missed, is that you have to have your learners (class7) for an entire year before you're eligible to take the Class 5 tests.
Quote from: Tom on May 17, 2013, 07:30:07 AM
The other change, which you missed, is that you have to have your learners (class7) for an entire year before you're eligible to take the Class 5 tests.
I mentioned it, above (I did an edit* after submitting, so you might not have seen that).
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 05:47:24 PM
I wouldn't be against some rules saying that you can bypass the first learners year by passing a rigorous training course and test.
The whole point of the year delay is that Real Driving On Real Roads requires time to "get it", no matter how many times you crushed it on Pole Position or Need For Speed or whatever, facing off against aggressive/stupid/egomaniac Edmonton drivers is a very different experience that takes many MONTHS for the brain to fully process and adapt to... Hopefully most young people who pass the written Class 7 are able to get a LOT of time behind the wheel like I did with my son. Ditto for you, Tom, seriously, being a good, confident, defensively-aware driver is something that doesn't come more quickly just cuz you're over 21 or half a dozen c-notes you can afford to throw down -- you need to put in the time, just like everybody else.
*yeah, it was part of what I edited:
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 07:26:14 AM
The only other changes have to do with the delay of time between getting the Class 7 and the Class 5 (which must be annoying to adults who finally want to get legit, but HEY the reason for it is EXPERIENCE on the actual ROADS; it's a different world out there vs. on the written page!) , as well as # of demerits or Blood Alcohol Level allowed ... too lazy right now to look that stuff up...
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: Tom on May 16, 2013, 05:47:24 PM
I wouldn't be against some rules saying that you can bypass the first learners year by passing a rigorous training course and test.
The whole point of the year delay is that Real Driving On Real Roads requires time to "get it", no matter how many times you crushed it on Pole Position or Need For Speed or whatever, facing off against aggressive/stupid/egomaniac Edmonton drivers is a very different experience that takes many MONTHS for the brain to fully process and adapt to... Hopefully most young people who pass the written Class 7 are able to get a LOT of time behind the wheel like I did with my son. Ditto for you, Tom, seriously, being a good, confident, defensively-aware driver is something that doesn't come more quickly just cuz you're over 21 or half a dozen c-notes you can afford to throw down -- you need to put in the time, just like everybody else.
My whole point is that some people CAN NOT get that kind of experience. What are they supposed to do? Not drive at all? Ever?
Quote from: Tom on May 17, 2013, 07:43:57 AM
My whole point is that some people CAN NOT get that kind of experience. What are they supposed to do? Not drive at all? Ever?
Other than [persuading/making new] friends who have lotsa time on their hands to let you drive them around everywhere, there is the option of spending that money (maybe a few times over the 12 months) on driving courses -- surely there are some that are not focused on "absolute beginners", but rather those drivers looking to get lengthy experience behind the wheel.
Just get the Class 7 *ASAP* , cuz those 12 months will eventually pass and even if you DON'T get a few hundred hours of road experience before the road test, if you really know the Book, and then just before the Class 5 road test you take the pretty inexpensive focused course that my son took imo you should pass it pretty easily. Just don't be overly moronic-AGGRO at intersections, but also don't be overly CAUTIOUS (my son's friend failed 3 times, all for that reason aka "obstructing traffic" because he didn't get the wheels rolling fast enough after coming to a stop -- yikes eh)
I should let it be known that I'm also super paranoid about my lack of focus and attention span. And the whole "vehicles put me to sleep" thing.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 08:34:50 AM
Other than [persuading/making new] friends who have lotsa time on their hands to let you drive them around everywhere,
Also, while I do have nice friends, I don't have nice friends who also have a lot of free time ;)
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 07:26:14 AM
When you pass the written test you get your "Class 7" which allows you to drive with a licensed Class 5 driver in the passenger seat, until MIDNIGHT.
The licensed class 5 driver also has to be an adult and on a non-probationary license and not drunk. The rules used to say that this driving was only for learning purposes so if you had groceries in the trunk then that drive was actually to get groceries, not for learning; thankfully they took this fine print out. The rules used to say the only other passenger could be the licensed class 5 driver in the passenger seat so you couldn't drive the family wagon if the family was in the car; they removed this condition as well.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 07:26:14 AM
When you pass the ROAD TEST to get your "Class 5", you immediately are able to drive alone. UNTIL MIDNIGHT.
Almost right - class 5 GDL, which you receive after your road test, allows you drive alone any time of day or night. See: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType47/Production/graduateddriverlic.pdf.
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 07:26:14 AM
My son got a LOT of experience behind the wheel with me sitting beside him (as well as his mom, but a large majority was ME anxiously pulling out my remaining hair while he fish-tailed on the Worst Winter Roads Ever or went over the biggest of the Worst Potholes Ever, but hey now he's a VERY confident and skilled driver!) ... fortunately he didn't need to take a Driver Training school/class as a result (although he took a "pre-test" course for like $60 or $80 that he said really helped him to know what to make sure he nailed on the road test).
Did you teach him about covering the brake?
Did you teach him how to properly use the dead pedal for threshold braking?
Did you teach him how to apply the brakes properly for poor-man's torque vectoriing?
Did you teach him the difference between stopping for a stop sign with a stop line and a stop sign without a stop line?
Did you teach him (and practice) four-wheels-no-traction skid control? Not fishtailing in traffic, that's dangerous as hell to the rest of us; I'm talking about a closed course with specific low-traction zones where you get used to how a car behaves when it loses all traction and what happens when you try to regain traction.
Did you teach him what to do after he runs over a dog that ran out from nowhere?
Did you teach him about overheated brakes when travelling down mountainsides?
Did you teach him how to properly reverse a thirty foot long, eight foot wide travel trailer into a nine foot wide parking lane?
Did you teach him about ramming and deep snow?
Did you teach him about high-centering?
Did you teach him about not going back in the car while filling the gas tank? (explosion hazard)
Did you teach him what this sign means?
(http://forums.righteouswrath.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9584.0;attach=2067)
Statistically speaking, 16 year olds are the worst drivers on the road, so saying that he's a very skilled driver has to be prefixed with "for his age". He undoubtedly still makes mistakes and undoubtedly still has many skills to learn.
Driver training may not cover these but they are also worth knowing:
Understand the difference in emergency breaking between Non-ABS and ABS equipped vehicles.
Understand the difference in breaking distance under dry conditions for Non-ABS and ABS equipped vehicles.
Understand the difference between acceleration traction issues under slippery conditions between a Non-Traction control and Traction control equipped vehicles.
Understanding the difference in behavior of steering between a front, rear or all-wheel drive when cornering under icy conditions
Tom, I get that having to wait just makes you more anxious and dampens your desire to get a drivers license. But just pretend it's a brand new computer that's taking a year to piece together - you will eventually get it delivered to you. See if you can turn the anxiety into anticipation like you would have for that new computer.
As an adult living alone there is a way to get the hours-behind-the-wheel experience, it just costs a lot more than when living with others that freely give you their time and vehicle to practice. Keep in mind that not every kid gets to take the family vehicle to practice in as not every parent has a car, or if they do, will allow their child to drive it. For these kids to get their experience, they simply have to pay a driving school.
But if a person truly does not have friends or family who will give their time and vehicle freely AND that person doesn't have enough money to pay a driving school, then yes, that person will likely never get their drivers license and be able to drive. Of course, they'd never be able to afford a car, either. Having to wait a year between class 7 and class 5 versus being able to get class 7 today and class 5 tomorrow has no impact on this.
As for lack of focus and attention span... Have you seen Edmonton-area drivers? You'd probably be more attentive than most because you're worried about paying attention.
I dunno. I just think people like me, who don't have easy access to a vehicle will end up just skirting around the intent of the rules, barely pass the driving test, and end up just as bad, or worse than they otherwise would be (its been a whole year since the written test after all).
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 09:43:16 AM
Statistically speaking, 16 year olds are the worst drivers on the road, so saying that he's a very skilled driver has to be prefixed with "for his age". He undoubtedly still makes mistakes and undoubtedly still has many skills to learn.
He's 17. And a half. Plus, I am actually comparing him to the typical drivers on Edmonton roads, during the weekends and evenings, which is the main times that we drove, and the main times I got to teach him on-the-spot lessons
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 10:03:03 AM
As for lack of focus and attention span... Have you seen Edmonton-area drivers? You'd probably be more attentive than most because you're worried about paying attention.
As I said, they are the reason my son is a better driver now than I was in my early 20s. Other drivers = cautionary tale, i.e. "don't be this guy" -- e.g. failure to use turn signal before lane change, following too close, changing lanes quickly OBVIOUSLY not looking in their blind spot etc. ... it's better to train him to be overly paranoid about The Other Guy than to just focus on playing out the Theory that he got from the Book. Plenty in the book is too hard to memorize (e.g. stopping distances, other braking stuff) vs. when a Real Life situation happens and his natural instinct is either praised/supported as correct "i.e. don't change a thing" or else corrected/warned "i.e. do the opposite of what you woulda done, there".
Not exaggerating, from what I've seen firsthand (and some stuff he has told me since driving without a parent) = he takes driving as a very serious responsibility and privilege, not a fun toy... a definite contrast to the "average" teenage boy, including myself until my late teens.
PS:
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 09:43:16 AM
Did you teach him about covering the brake?
Did you teach him how to properly use the dead pedal for threshold braking?
Did you teach him how to apply the brakes properly for poor-man's torque vectoriing?
Did you teach him the difference between stopping for a stop sign with a stop line and a stop sign without a stop line?
Did you teach him (and practice) four-wheels-no-traction skid control? Not fishtailing in traffic, that's dangerous as hell to the rest of us; I'm talking about a closed course with specific low-traction zones where you get used to how a car behaves when it loses all traction and what happens when you try to regain traction.
Did you teach him what to do after he runs over a dog that ran out from nowhere?
Did you teach him about overheated brakes when travelling down mountainsides?
Did you teach him how to properly reverse a thirty foot long, eight foot wide travel trailer into a nine foot wide parking lane?
Did you teach him about ramming and deep snow?
Did you teach him about high-centering?
Did you teach him about not going back in the car while filling the gas tank? (explosion hazard)
*I* don't know most of that stuff! (at least by those words.) My son's mature attitude is a GREAT starting point, putting him well ahead of a LOT of others on the roads of Edmonton, and it's likely that a lot of the list above is never really gonna be a consideration in his driving "career". (As I said, virtually all of it hasn't been in mine, or in the career of others I know, at least AFAIK ;) )
Back On Topic...
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 10:03:03 AM
But if a person truly does not have friends or family who will give their time and vehicle freely AND that person doesn't have enough money to pay a driving school, then yes, that person will likely never get their drivers license and be able to drive. Of course, they'd never be able to afford a car, either. Having to wait a year between class 7 and class 5 versus being able to get class 7 today and class 5 tomorrow has no impact on this.
Yeah, sadly the above is clearly Tom's situation, pretty much ... and it's also my brother's situation, a nasty Catch-22.
Well, luckily it isn't /quite/ my situation anymore. I can afford to pay for some driver training, which I will do. And I may take up some people on their offers for driving time. So its not all bad. But it used to be!
Also, I just got in a new toy:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XHDW4RhSj2Y/UZZwI7Q9LUI/AAAAAAAACGM/myuQJ17cfxU/s800/IMG_20130517_115907.jpg)
Was going to bring up my old media box hw as a spare box for various things, but its mobo is likely dead, and the cpu is an am2+, which doesn't work in the desktop's old AM3 motherboard, so I thought about getting a cheap replacement am3 for the desktop board... then I thought, why not just spend a bit more to get a really nice upgrade for the desktop? You can till which route I picked. The Phenom II 810 thats in there now will soon live in the spare box.
Freaking awesome!!
That's goin' in the MC server right hahaha ;)
Edit: It's cool that you can verify the CPU details with the QR Code (i.e. it works pretty well)
Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 17, 2013, 12:32:46 PM
Freaking awesome!!
That's goin' in the MC server right hahaha ;)
The mc server has one of these:
(Xeon E3 1230)
(http://img0.pconline.com.cn/pconline/1108/13/2499679_DSC08578.JPG)
It may actually be faster.
Heh nice!
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 10:03:03 AM
As for lack of focus and attention span... Have you seen Edmonton-area drivers? You'd probably be more attentive than most because you're worried about paying attention.
As I said, they are the reason my son is a better driver now than I was in my early 20s. Other drivers = cautionary tale, i.e. "don't be this guy" -- e.g. failure to use turn signal before lane change, following too close, changing lanes quickly OBVIOUSLY not looking in their blind spot etc. ... it's better to train him to be overly paranoid about The Other Guy than to just focus on playing out the Theory that he got from the Book. Plenty in the book is too hard to memorize (e.g. stopping distances, other braking stuff) vs. when a Real Life situation happens and his natural instinct is either praised/supported as correct "i.e. don't change a thing" or else corrected/warned "i.e. do the opposite of what you woulda done, there".
[..]
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 09:43:16 AM
Did you teach him about covering the brake?
Did you teach him how to properly use the dead pedal for threshold braking?
Did you teach him how to apply the brakes properly for poor-man's torque vectoriing?
Did you teach him the difference between stopping for a stop sign with a stop line and a stop sign without a stop line?
Did you teach him (and practice) four-wheels-no-traction skid control? Not fishtailing in traffic, that's dangerous as hell to the rest of us; I'm talking about a closed course with specific low-traction zones where you get used to how a car behaves when it loses all traction and what happens when you try to regain traction.
Did you teach him what to do after he runs over a dog that ran out from nowhere?
Did you teach him about overheated brakes when travelling down mountainsides?
Did you teach him how to properly reverse a thirty foot long, eight foot wide travel trailer into a nine foot wide parking lane?
Did you teach him about ramming and deep snow?
Did you teach him about high-centering?
Did you teach him about not going back in the car while filling the gas tank? (explosion hazard)
*I* don't know most of that stuff! (at least by those words.) My son's mature attitude is a GREAT starting point, putting him well ahead of a LOT of others on the roads of Edmonton, and it's likely that a lot of the list above is never really gonna be a consideration in his driving "career". (As I said, virtually all of it hasn't been in mine, or in the career of others I know, at least AFAIK ;) )
Braking effectively in as little space as possible is the very first skill a driver needs to learn, without excellent braking skills one cannot call oneself a skilled driver. One can drive with an excessive amount of space in front, behind, and to the side of the vehicle, to leave lots and lots of time for required reactions, but that's a
cautious driver, not necessarily a skilled one. Now, a skilled driver can exhibit the same cautiousness and keep lots of distance, but the difference between a skilled driver exhibiting cautiousness and an unskilled driver exhibiting cautiousness is how they react when thrown into a situation that cannot be avoided and that does not have a lot of time for reactions.
I do not consider myself a good driver, having seen what truly skilled drivers can do when given almost no time to react, but I know that braking skill is one of the most important foundations of skilled driving. Braking isn't just jamming the brake pedal, though, real braking skill is being able to stop the car as quickly as possible while still maintaining the control required to avoid obstacles (cars, pedestrians, signs, etc). The actual techniques vary depending on the amount and type of traction at each wheel and the direction the car is travelling.
I have to say,
good job for teaching him to be cautious, though. Drivers can be skilled and cautious, skilled but not cautious, not skilled but cautious, or not skilled and not cautious. Too many Edmonton drivers fall in that fourth category. It surprises me how little representation Edmonton and area has had at Canada's Worst Driver through the seasons.
-----
The stuff I listed there, all but the skid control I learned and/or practiced in paid-for drivers training (the skid control was in the advanced course that I couldn't afford at the time, the trailer-backing was theory only).
covering the brake - moving the foot off the gas pedal to hover over the brake pedal in anticipation of the possibility of having to brake; it takes 3/10ths of a second to do this, which is 5 meters at 60km/h (or roughly one car length), so covering the brake in anticipation instead of waiting until braking is required could be the difference between just hit and just stopped in time
dead pedal / threshold braking - threshold breaking is used for non-ABS cars (or where ABS is turned off or has failed); it involves pushing the brake pedal as hard as possible without locking up the tires, this is done by putting the left foot on the dead pedal and the right foot on the brake pedal and pressing down hard on both and if the tires lock up then press down harder on the dead pedal as this will cause the right foot to press less hard on the brake pedal
poor-man's torque vectoring - if the drive wheels are spinning (say, on ice), lightly apply the brake so that the spinning wheel stops spinning and the wheel with traction gets power; if the car has traction control and it's on, it'll do it for you
stop sign with a stop line - stop with the entire car behind the line / stop sign without a stop line - stop within ten feet of the intersecting roadway; if the stop sign is twenty feet back, then you actually stop past the stop sign by at least ten feet (many people think you're supposed to stop behind the stop sign, this is wrong)
run over a dog - stop and report the accident, if you leave the scene you are guilty of hit-and-run; you can check the collar for a phone number and call the owners, or call the police to attend the scene
braking down mountainsides - brakes overheat easily and can and will catch fire if used for prolonged periods such as when driving down a mountainside; drop into a low gear to use engine braking to slow down, apply the brakes as necessary on steeper sections but let your foot off the brake pedal every now and then to let the rotor and pads cool down
deep snow and ramming - if the snow comes up to the bottom of the car and you need to get through, back up then drive in a straight line at it; this will cause snow to pile up in front of the car; stop before the car bogs down, back straight out using your tire ruts, then do the same thing again; this will eventually create a lane that you can drive through
high-centering - this is when too much stuff gets under your car between the front and back wheels and causes your car to become stuck; frequently, one tire is lifted off the ground and you don't have traction anymore. Usually you have to dig out from under the car, but some drivers don't realize digging out the tires isn't enough
re-entering a car while fueling - putting gas in the tank creates gasoline vapour, getting in and out of a car can cause you to charge up with static electricity, touching the metal nozzle while still charged up can ignite the vapours (this is pretty damn rare, though); it's also important to fill containers like jerrycans on the ground rather than in the air or on a bumper of a vehicle
Tom, nice new CPU you have there. Your "spare parts" box is gonna be better than my main machines!
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 01:30:49 PM
Tom, nice new CPU you have there. Your "spare parts" box is gonna be better than my main machines!
Heh. I have a spare, currently unusable Phenom I 9550. A stack of DDR2 and maybe DDR1 hanging around...
I'm going to test my old AM2 board one last time, and if it doesn't work at all, anyone is free to take the Phenom I if they have a compatible machine and could use the upgrade.
@%&# man, I think I have a spare vid card for ya somewhere
Don't know why it just hit me
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 01:30:19 PM
I have to say...
good job for teaching him to be cautious, though. Drivers can be skilled and cautious, skilled but not cautious, not skilled but cautious, or not skilled and not cautious. Too many Edmonton drivers fall in that fourth category.
Thanks. (I hope I'm right ;) )The stuff I listed there, all but the skid control I learned and/or practiced in paid-for drivers training (the skid control was in the advanced course that I couldn't afford at the time, the trailer-backing was theory only).
Good detailed descriptions there. I think most of it I kinda knew, but just didn't realize that I knew, or haven't had to put the practice into practice with specific thinking about what I was doing or why.re-entering a car while fueling - putting gas in the tank creates gasoline vapour, getting in and out of a car can cause you to charge up with static electricity, touching the metal nozzle while still charged up can ignite the vapours (this is pretty damn rare, though); it's also important to fill containers like jerrycans on the ground rather than in the air or on a bumper of a vehicle
A lot of the gas stations are starting to have a bright easily-visible sign or sticker that summarizes this important fact... I wish as an eye-opener for the masses some big Hollywood production would have a typical Gas Station Explosion scene be triggered by this common danger, instead of something rare that is actually in violation of the laws of physics!Have a great weekend everybody! (and Tom/Mr.A, a heads-up for the May 24th weekend: if your ears or eyes are super-sensitive, check out some Free Entertainment almost in your neighborhood -- bridge demolition! (http://www.gov.ab.ca/acn/201305/34197B3F7D31E-F61D-636A-F3ED534789E563D3.html) for the Northeast Section of the Henday! (http://www.northeastanthonyhenday.com/project.php)) <-- EDIT: oops, my eyes saw "Baseline" and my brain thought "Meridian" i.e. a bridge over the RIVER... but of course there isn't one there yet!
Quote from: Darren Dirt on May 17, 2013, 02:24:32 PM
A lot of the gas stations are starting to have a bright easily-visible sign or sticker that summarizes this important fact... I wish as an eye-opener for the masses some big Hollywood production would have a typical Gas Station Explosion scene be triggered by this common danger, instead of something rare that is actually in violation of the laws of physics!
This is the best we get: http://youtu.be/tuZxFL9cGkI
As opposed to Hollywood: http://youtu.be/IdOF7xg5lug
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
As opposed to Hollywood: http://youtu.be/IdOF7xg5lug
How
Birdemicepic!
Quote from: Thorin on May 17, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
This is the best we get: http://youtu.be/tuZxFL9cGkI
I actually JUMPED when the orange flame appeared -- but I was expecting it eventually, after all she (1) sat back down in her car seat for some reason, AND (b) was tugging on her sweater for a bit -- after both of this things she didn't touch the metal frame of the car, but touched the gas pump nozzle :facepalm: