I always go through insurance for car accidents

[Thorin]

After our Suburban was written off in late May, we went shopping for a new vehicle that would seat at least six.  In mid-June, we bought a brand-new crew cab Silverado.  Last week CowGirl was driving back from The Mall and got rear-ended by a lady who didn't stop in time.  At first glance our vehicle didn't look damaged, but when I looked closer I could see that the bumper had been pushed in, that the bumper pushed the fender in a bit, and that because the fender is pushed in now the tailgate is rubbing metal-on-metal every time we open it.

Now the lady's husband is calling us, wanting to settle without getting insurance involved.  I think this is a terrible idea.  To begin with, there will be no punishment in the way of higher insurance rates for the driver so she'll continue to not pay attention to the traffic in front of her.  Secondly, it's way too easy for the driver or her husband to claim at a later date that it was actually our fault and then to come after us for money.

So today we got a call from the husband that he had contacted our insurance agent and told the insurance agent we want to settle outside of insurance.  He doesn't know us, but he chose to speak for us?  Obviously this guy's just in it to minimize his own cost.  If I have any say in this, we're going through proper insurance and we're getting the truck properly fixed and we're going to have a rental vehicle for the entire time it's in the shop getting fixed and we're not going to bend over backwards to help a stranger who's just trying to screw us anyway.

As for the lady who hit us and her husband, I really don't care what they want.  They hit us, it is our right to put in a claim against their insurance.

Our insurance company told us to get a police report, so CowGirl went to an Edmonton police station today.  At the police station, the police refused to let her file a police report until she could prove (via an estimate) that there was at least $2,000 in damage to our vehicle.  They wouldn't even look at the picture of the other vehicle (which had a light smashed in, the hood buckled up, the bumper pushed down, the grill broken, and probably fender damage that I couldn't see in the picture).  This completely contradicts what the Edmonton Police Service's website says:

• If the combined damage to the vehicles involved is over $2,000, you must attend a police station and file a Collision Report Form. Failure to do so could result in a $287 fine.

To me this just sounds like an officer who doesn't want to bother with paperwork for what (he deems to be) a minor accident.  You know, he looked at the damage, he couldn't really see anything, so there's no damage?  Because he's a mechanic and has looked up how much a piece of dented chrome for a bumper costs these days?  Ugh.

Also of note, when in an accident always record:
1. the other driver's license number - so you can identify who was at the wheel
2. the oher car's license plate (and check the registration paper to make sure the plate matches the car described) - so you can identify the vehicle
3. the other party's insurance company and policy number - so you know they are insured and who will be compensating you

[Darren Dirt]

At the police station, the police refused to let her file a police report until she could prove (via an estimate) that there was at least $2,000 in damage to our vehicle.  They wouldn't even look at the picture of the other vehicle (which had a light smashed in, the hood buckled up, the bumper pushed down, the grill broken, and probably fender damage that I couldn't see in the picture).  This completely contradicts what the Edmonton Police Service's website says

no effin' kidding. ALWAYS do a police report if there's any possibility of any kind of costly repairs and especially if insurance is getting involved -- the best CYA you can do, for sure. Perhaps you picked a police station that was too busy; find another one and persist in getting that paperwork filed, can't hurt, but it sure can hurt if you don't file something and the other party decides to be a dbag or idiot or just plain mean.

Also of note, when in an accident always record:
1. the other driver's license number - so you can identify who was at the wheel
2. the oher car's license plate (and check the registration paper to make sure the plate matches the car described) - so you can identify the vehicle
3. the other party's insurance company and policy number - so you know they are insured and who will be compensating you

Also in this modern age there's no excuse to not do a walk-around video of both vehicles after the collision, as well as some close-up still photos of the impact zone. You never know what the other party might claim later on... Heck, take a photo of their insurance slip as well, just in case you wrote something down wrong during the high-anxiety adrenaline-pumping moment after the collision.

I've learned by being burned. My slight bump into his car, NO visible damage on either of us, later he claims some scratches (that he told me were underneath some dirt, during a muddy time this summer) were due to this <5kph collision. But I had no photo/video proof that there was nothing. Nowadays, even some slightly scratched PAINT can cost you $1000! So sorry Mr. Police Officer, better safe than sorry, file that damn report pleez and tank ewe.

[Lazybones]

Yep, did it once off the record, never again.. Resulted in a @%&#ty repair.

As for $2000, if there is ANY significant dent on a uni-body vehicle it is basically automatic. If there is paint loss on a panel, it is at least a few $$$ to fix the cheapest way possible.

[Thorin]

It's a pickup truck so it's body-on-frame, not unibody.  But the bumper's pushed in one side and there's a dent in the chrome covering the bumper, the bumper pushed the fender in towards the tailgate, and the tailgate doesn't close properly.  So there's definitely damage.

[Thorin]

Got an estimate, it's $2,016 to repair, about 9 hours of labour plus some time for paint to bake, so they need the vehicle in for three days so we need a rental for three days.  Probably be $2,100 - $2,200 when everything's said and done.

The other party has called our insurance company to tell them we don't want to go through insurance - hell yes we do.  The other party has called the bodyshop to find out how much the estimate is so they can pay it directly - holy aggressive.  The other party has called our house at least six times, trying to convince us to settle outside of insurance - "we have a couple of kids and the rate increase would be a great burden", "we know you're a good person and will help us out", "we're pleading with you to do the right thing".

So, this was a 40+ year old driver.  Alberta has a rate grid, where insurance companies can charge less, but they're not allowed to charge more than the grid.  It's here: http://www.airb.alberta.ca/gridrate/AirbGridInfo.aspx.  The way the grid works is you start at 0, and for every year of insured driving without an at-fault claim, you drop down one step on the grid.  The grid bottoms out at -15 (representing 15 years driving without an at-fault claim).  For every at-fault claim, you go up five steps.

So at 40, the driver could've had 24 years driving and being insured, easily enough to get her to the bottom of the grid.  At step -15, the max rate is $780.  If this was her only accident, she'd go to step -10, where the max rate is still $780.  If she had two accidents recently, she'd go to step -5, where the max rate is $1,170.  She'd pay more for five years, then she'd be back at step -10 and pay at most $780.  This would cost her $1,170 over the five years:

      without   with
year  accident  accident  diff    per month
2014  $ 780     $1,170    $  390  $32.50
2015  $ 780     $1,092    $  312  $26
2016  $ 780     $1,014    $  234  $19.50
2017  $ 780     $  936    $  156  $13
2018  $ 780     $  858    $   78  $ 6.50
2019  back to normal
total                     $1,170


Remember, the repair costs are about $2,200.  So for this accident to significantly affect their rates to the point that the repair cost is less than the increased rates, this has to have been at least the third at-fault accident in the last 15 years.  In fact, even if it's her third accident in the last 15 years, it'll only cost an extra $3,120 over the next ten years ($4,290 gross minus the $1,170 for the other accident leaves $3,120 to be costed to this accident):

      without   with
year  accident  accident  diff    per month
2014  $ 780     $1,560    $  780  $65
2015  $ 780     $1,482    $  702  $58.50
2016  $ 780     $1,404    $  624  $52
2017  $ 780     $1,326    $  546  $45.50
2018  $ 780     $1,248    $  468  $39
2019  $ 780     $1,170    $  390  $32.50
2020  $ 780     $1,092    $  312  $26
2021  $ 780     $1,014    $  234  $19.50
2022  $ 780     $  936    $  156  $13
2023  $ 780     $  858    $   78  $ 6.50
2024  back to normal
total                     $4,290


Really, even if this is the driver's third at-fault accident in the last 15 years, that increase doesn't add up to "a great burden" in my eyes.  Which tells me that it's past the driver's third at-fault accident in the last 15 years.  And how aggressively they're pursuing not reporting it to their insurance company, I'm thinking they've done this several times before and are getting good at it.  Doesn't sound like the kind of driver we really want on the road...

[Darren Dirt]

^ I really like your above post. Because maths. 

[Tom]

Someone should forward that post to the people at fault. see if it makes em shut the heck up.

[Thorin]

Math is the universal language.

Also, an at-fault accident costs a lot more when you're a brand-new driver because you don't start at the bottom of the grid.

Also also, the insurance company can charge less - we were going to pay only $430 a year for our Suburban just before it got written off (that would've been without collision, though).

Our insurance company has agreed to deal with the driver directly - our insurance will ensure our repair bill and rental is covered, and will then recover the costs from the other driver.  Which means they can avoid a claim against their insurance, while we don't have to worry about non-payment.  And if they skip out, then our insurance company will end up putting a claim in with their insurance company.

[Tom]

I wasn't aware an insurance company would do that.

[Thorin]

Yeah, me either.  I'm impressed that 1. INTACT Insurance is making sure to represent me, and 2. that they're willing to deal directly with the other driver rather than their insurance company.

Oh, I have collision on this vehicle, thus it's my collision coverage that is initially paying for the repairs.  I'm sure if I didn't have collision, my insurance company wouldn't be nearly as helpful.

Still, their name is INTACT Insurance and they're making life easier for us.

[Darren Dirt]

Yeah, me either.  I'm impressed that 1. INTACT Insurance is making sure to represent me, and 2. that they're willing to deal directly with the other driver rather than their insurance company.

Coolness -- but perhaps bolded above is cuz this kind of stuff works? ("Monkey, get off my back" syndrome imo)

The other party has called our insurance company to tell them we don't want to go through insurance ...  The other party has called the bodyshop to find out how much the estimate is so they can pay it directly - holy aggressive.  The other party has called our house at least six times, trying to convince us to settle outside of insurance - "we have a couple of kids and the rate increase would be a great burden", "we know you're a good person and will help us out", "we're pleading with you to do the right thing".

[Thorin]

Well, the concern for my insurance company would be non-payment by the individual, right?  But I guess as long as they get their money from someone, it doesn't really matter who they get it from.

So here's the problem with not going through insurance - if next year their insurance company calls them up and says, "How many at-fault accidents have you been involved in over the last six years", do they answer truthfully, or lie?  If they lie, and the insurance company finds out, their insurance will be cancelled for failure to disclose.

And since there was over $2,000 in combined damage, they are required by law to fill in a police report.  So there is a paper trail started.  If they refuse to fill out a police report, it's a $287 fine (and then they still have to fill out the police report).