Alberta Budget 2015

[Darren Dirt]

You know how as part of the Budget there was talk of a bunch of increases to fines for stuff that minimum-wage earners might have trouble paying when (like anyone does) they occasionally eff up?

Well, could be worse -- Edmonton etc. = not as bad as some municipalities when it comes to how badly things can spiral downward for an "offender".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto <-- Last Week Tonight ANGER-INDUCING "Municipal Violations" ep (you think the "Predatory Lending" ep pissed you off? Well at least those were private for-profit companies imposing such blatant hamster-wheel evils upon poor folks who made a [poor] choice to utilize their services! What if you have no choice?)


But... imo it's still pretty bad.* I can't remember the exact numbers, but how you can justify around one full-time week of minimum wage being a fair punishment for someone going the speed of traffic flow (e.g. going 65 in a 50 when everybody thinks it's a 60, and they are all going around 67-69) ... luckily in E-town it seems you can pretty consistently "show up and agree to pay less than the full amount".




* research tells me not quite as bad as I thought; 35% increase pretty much across the bad is of course ridic, but the minimum fines are still pretty low. But a stop sign ticket? $233 now? INSANE.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1906267/alberta-budget-2015-what-will-your-sins-cost-you/
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/03/26/some-alberta-traffic-fines-to-increase
"
Fines for traffic offences are going up an average of 35 per cent.

Fines for speeding* ? which currently range from $57 to $351 ? will increase to $78 to $474.

For violations involving emergency vehicles or for speeding through construction zones, you could be hit with a ticket as high as $949. That?s up from a maximum of $703.
"



* but the question is, what range from the posted limit are MOST of the speeding violations? http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/11/12/edmonton-city-council-wants-to-see-tally-on-low-range-speeding-tickets

[Darren Dirt]

^ TBH it's actually really TOUGH to find out this kind of info ... heck, even just finding out how much the fine is for speeding? No easy task:

http://canadamotoguide.com/2013/02/12/the-cost-of-speeding/

Editor ?Arris and I were talking at the office on a tea-and-crumpets break and thought we should do a write-up on the cost of speeding across Canada. We were looking to find out which provinces were the most expensive to speed in, and which provinces had the most punishing demerits system.

Sounds simple, right? You?d think this sort of information would be available in about 30 seconds of searching government websites ? and you?d be wrong.

Only two provincial government websites provided a clear picture of what it would cost to speed, for each kilometre over the speed limit ? Quebec and Newfoundland. Go figure.

While the information for other provinces may be out there, readily accessible, I wasn?t able to find it, and I spent a lot of time looking for it. Information like this should prove a valuable deterrent to dangerous driving, but for some reason, provinces don?t seem to make it easy to find.

It's 26 months later, and it still seems to be true. I did a bunch of Googles and then searches on both Edmonton's and Alberta's websites and all I could find was how to PAY your fines, not what amounts I should expect to be charged for whatever violation. #wtf -- example: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=speed%20site%3Awww.transportation.alberta.ca


From 2011 I found this post...
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=3152378#post3152378

Speeding 15km/h over limit - $89.00 - 2 Demerits
20km/h over limit - $124.00 - 3 Demerits
25km/h over limit - $150.00 - 3 Demerits
30km/h over limit - $177.00 - 4 Demerits
40km/h over limit - $264.00 - 4 Demerits
50km/h over limit - $351.00 - 6 Demerits
Over 50km/h - Mandatory Court Appearance

And the article above managed to put the convoluted info together best they could (back in 2013)



But I don't think either of these are even close to accurate now (even before the May 2015 changes) -- because going 20 over the limit is NOT less than $200 for sure, in fact I'm pretty sure going like 11 over right now is in the neighborhood of like $175 isn't it? If photo radar for the most part only nails you if you are going 11 or 10 or 9 over the limit, then it doesn't much MATTER if the "minimum" fines for going 8 or less over = a pittance, right?

[Darren Dirt]

aha? finally found "it" I think, via the "Legislation" page @ http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/525.htm

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page=1989_233.cfm&leg_type=Regs&isbncln=9780779739943

^ PDF.

PROVINCIAL OFFENCES PROCEDURE ACT
PROCEDURES REGULATION
Alberta Regulation 233/1989
With amendments up to and including Alberta Regulation 228/2014


Page 51-52: Part 28 Traffic Safety Act (speeding offences)

Table

Km over limit   Amount of specified penalty (in dollars)
1      50
2      52
3      54
4      56
5      58
6      60
7      62
8      64
9      66
10      68
11      70
12      72
13      74
14      76
15      78
16      90
17      96
18      99
19      105
20      108
21      113
22      119
23      122
24      128
25      131
26      136
27      140
28      145
29      150
30      154
31      163
32      169
33      177
34      184
35      191
36      199
37      206
38      215
39      222
40      230
41      238
42      245
43      253
44      260
45      267
46      275
47      283
48      290
49      298
50      306

... so apparently the TICKET is a lot more than just the "Amount of specified penalty", it seems to have a ton of admin costs added? Maybe a presumed court cost? (Which would explain why you can just pay a lot less before the court appearance)

Thorin do you know of an actual amount for a recent speeding ticket, to compare to the above?



PS: when it comes to the amount over the limit that are most offences, I found this:

Alberta Speeding Convictions and Collisions Involving Unsafe Speed 2004 - 2008
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType48/Production/SpeedReport2004-2008.pdf

This PDF has a ton of tables, looks like the majority of speeding offences (52%-60%) were 16-30 km over (and 24% were 1-15 km over) ... but almost none of the offences happened between 3am and 7am #shock

[Thorin]

Hmm, I seem to have better Google-Fu than the reporter from that article from two years ago.

Speeding fines in Alberta are set out in AR 233/89 Part 28 (page 51): http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/1989_233.pdf.  The prices there do not include a 15% surcharge for the Victims Of Crime Act; those are added into the quick-reference sheet found on the Alberta Transportation website: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType44/Production/splquickref.pdf

That second link is accurate up to March 23rd, as a photo radar ticket was issued for a car under my name on that date.  23km/h over the limit, $140 fine, just like the quick-reference sheet says.  Also, I WAS NOT THE ONE DRIVING.

edit: In the time it took me to buy and consume chicken (to eat for lunch, of course), you found the same as me.

[Thorin]

Didn't see your question to me before I posted, Darren, but yeah, 23 over is $140 including surcharge.  15 over is $89 including surcharge.  These are confirmed amounts from photo radar tickets in the last two years (NOT ME DRIVING).

11 over is $80, not $175 (although it's $160 in a construction zone or passing emergency vehicles, since the fine is doubled), 20 over is $124, not more than $200 (or $248 in a construction zone / passing emergency vehicles).

[Darren Dirt]

Didn't see your question to me before I posted, Darren, but yeah, 23 over is $140 including surcharge.  15 over is $89 including surcharge.  These are confirmed amounts from photo radar tickets in the last two years (NOT ME DRIVING).

11 over is $80, not $175 (although it's $160 in a construction zone or passing emergency vehicles, since the fine is doubled), 20 over is $124, not more than $200 (or $248 in a construction zone / passing emergency vehicles).

I think my queries were based on the fact that my only recent first-hand experience was with my son getting a ticket for going something like 55 in a school zone (can't remember exact amount of his ticket, coulda sworn it was close to $200 or slightly over that). idk.


So overall I guess it's not quite as bad as I thought (i.e. the amount of the fines goes up very linearly from "+1" thru "+18" it's an increase of either 2 or 3 bucks per km. For some reason +18 is $99 and +19 is $105 , but after that it goes up by either 3 or 6 bucks per km... Not some kind of weird tiered thing which I had always had an impression it was (e.g. maybe every +10 level there's a surcharge of $100 or something -- that's what I thought was happening)


Thanks for that comparison to an actual ticket!

[Thorin]

55 in a school zone would be 25 over, which is $150.  I don't think it's doubled for school zones, just construction zones and around emergency vehicles.  Paying it online has some fee attached as well, but the ticket itself would be written for $150.

[Thorin]

Hmm, speeding fines are supposed to have gone up by approx 35% on May 1st 2015, but I can't find a schedule of the new fines anywhere.  Also, a lot of the links on the Alberta Government website no longer work for the Transportation department, where traffic legislation could be found.  So I don't know if it actually happened, since the increase was part of Jim Prentice's budget, and, well, he rage-quit after the NDP wiped out his party.  So you'd think the budget he tabled didn't actually make it through to fruition.

On the other hand, a member of my household (NOT ME) got a ticket for 19 over that before May 1st was $120 but is now $163, which is roughly 35% higher.

So maybe the budget that Prentice and the PCs lost control of Alberta for ended up being quietly instituted mostly as is?

[Mr. Analog]

My guess is the machinery to increase the ticketing was already in place by the time the budget changes were announced and has been set that way until things get sorted out at a higher level, which could take months