Gas prices up

[Tom]

The Model-T's innovation was putting cheap cars in the hands of the public.

It also had a hand in the whole assembly line thing.

[Mr. Analog]

The Model-T's innovation was putting cheap cars in the hands of the public.

It also had a hand in the whole assembly line thing.

Not really, assembly line and division of labour had been around for a long time before Ford, even conveyor systems are 200+ years old.

[Lazybones]

Tesla innovations:
- Electric car that has a range long enough to be more than just a short range commuter vehicle
- It has speed and acceleration to match or exceed other cars in its price range
- Has a body shape that is not completely driven by aerodynamics like most hybrids or electrics
- First all electric Motor Trend Car of the year http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/12/2013-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-tesla-model-s/

[Thorin]

This does not have a long enough range to be useful for me, mostly due to recharge times at the end of the range.  For instance, I drove 290km through hilly terrain at a near-constant 120km/h.  Given the graphs shown on http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range, on flat terrain at 120km/h I would be able to go about 220 miles, or 352km; sounds good.  But I was not on flat ground, I had a head wind, I had more than 300 pounds in the vehicle, and I had to have the heater and defrost running.  All of which could easily add up to a 25% decrease in range, leaving me stranded at 268km, or 32km short of my destination.  With a 5 HOUR wait to refuel, since there's no Supercharger stations anywhere near here.  And this is a pretty typical trip for anyone with a kid in sports, especially the less-popular ones where you have to travel farther for competition.

Its acceleration is phenomenal, although it still doesn't beat the Chrono 3.5 from 1990 or so.  But electric cars have always had super acceleration so long as you have traction.  Imagine, though, trying to get going in the crap snow that we had last week - this thing has low-rolling-resistance tires, which means they have less grip (since grip is what causes rolling resistance), plus it has its peak torque right at the start of acceleration, which means you'll have to feather that accelerator pedal like a maniac just to keep wheelspin to a minimum.

Its body shape is very much driven by aerodynamics.  That's one of the things they tout - the slipperiness of this vehicle is a Cd of 0.15 if I've read correctly.  A big part of that is the completely flat and smooth undercarriage, where normally exhaust parts screw up the airflow.  And that's super-important because if the Cd was a still respectable 0.20, they'd lose 40% of their range.

Winning Car Of The Year isn't an innovation, it's a prize.  Good for them for winning it, but that's not an innovation.

But damn this'd be a fun car to test drive, or even to own and operate somewhere where the weather's always nice and there are charging stations nearby and where one owns a second vehicle for long-distance trips.

[Mr. Analog]

To be fair we live in Alberta where driving from Edmonton to Calgary is no big deal, in Europe it would be like driving from London to Paris...

[Thorin]

London to Paris is like Edmonton to Banff, distance-wise.  And Europeans expect to be able to do that without stopping these days, thanks to no border checks between Euro-zone countries.  The BMWs and Audis and Benzes and Rovers can all do the return trip without gassing up anywhere, London to Paris.  The Tesla has to make a 5 hour stop each way, since there's no Superchargers, or at least a 30 minute stop each way once they put in Superchargers (assuming there's no wait at the Superchargers, which you know there will be if it takes 30 minutes for just one car to receive it's energy).

For an electric vehicle, this Tesla has remarkable range.  For a useful car, it does not, and is hampered by a lack of refuelling infrastructure.  Had they added a small gas-powered generator a la the Volt, my opinion on its usefulness would be different.

[Thorin]

Here's a way to extend one's range: http://www.autonet.ca/auto-news/eco-friendly-news/2012/10/04/tow-along-electricity/

[Mr. Analog]

You know what electric cars need? Really tiny fusion reactors.

[Thorin]

Ooooh, an ARC reactor!

[Mr. Analog]

Exactly, just remember to have it serviced every 200 years or so

[Thorin]

Unless you're fighting Loki, then it'll probably need replacement after every battle.

Seriously, though, the only thing stopping true electric-only vehicles from making great inroads now is the refuelling problems.  Between low range, long charge times, and no locations to actually charge up, the EVs are currently still a bust.  Compare that to the series hybrid vehicles coming out now like the Volt, where there's a gas motor that really just generates electricity to keep the batteries topped up; these series hybrid vehicles are not constrained by the refuelling problems and can thus go on long trips yet still save a bundle if you mostly just drive less than 30 or 40 km per day.

[Tom]

There are some promising new battery techs being worked on. Some of them are only slight modifications on the current lithium batteries and have a very good chance of not being "3 to 5 years out" (aka: never).

[Thorin]

I hear the use of carbon nanotubes can increase storage capacity by a third, and can provide ten times the instantaneous power due to faster discharge of the cathode.  Although so far it's only been done in micro-batteries in labs, so who knows if it holds up for larger construction of batteries.

[Tom]

They've played with all kinds of things. CNTs, and new alloys for the cathode and anode. Many of them do similar things. Or slightly different battery chemistry.

[Darren Dirt]

the only thing stopping true electric-only vehicles from making great inroads now is the refuelling problems.  Between low range, long charge times

Elon Musk demonstrates the Tesla Model S -- and instead of charging the battery, how about just SWAPPING IT OUT FOR A FRESH ONE?

How about doing this for TWO DIFFERENT VEHICLES in less time than it takes to fill a normal gas tank?

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/20/tesla-shows-off-a-90-second-battery-swap-system-wants-it-at-supercharging-stations-by-years-end/
direct link to video: http://player.vimeo.com/video/68832891

And if you prefer "free*" instead of "fast", here's the current and future map of "supercharger stations*" across North America: http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger (I hope the Calgary location is not too close to the banks of the Bow or Elbow Rivers...)




* "free of charge and powered by solar" http://www.cnbc.com/id/100775107



(PS: wow the Tesla Roadster has come a far way quickly, looking back at these other 2 threads: July 2008 "Google wants to make driving cheaper for you" and way back in November 2007 "Honda Zero Emission Motor hits the road" )