UBUNTU: Ready for primtime? Maybe...

[Mr. Analog]

So, I installed the latest Ubuntu on my spare HDD yesterday and overall I was impressed at how easy it was to do. I was also very happy to see all the software they bundle with the current release was pretty much everything I download and use on Windows anyway (OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc). It wasn't without it's problems though, and possibly the reason why I nuked the install after only two hours of it running on my machine. When I installed it the desktop did not look right on my monitor (not centered on the monitor, could only go up to a resolution of 1024x768, etc), now of course this was because the default video driver was installed. I went to nVidia's driver download page and was overjoyed to find out that they had a compatible driver for my card on "Linux". So I download the file and begin following nVidia's instructions. Problem 1; how do you get to the command line from the deskop, I couldn't find it, but I did discover that I could execute the run file as an application in a pop-up terminal. Ok, so I was able to do that, then I get an error while it is installing saying that it requires root access to run. Ok, well, I'm no Linux head but I did know that the default account in Ubuntu isn't root but can be granted root access by assigning it to the correct group in the administration console. Ok, so I ran the driver and again I got the error. Curiously enough there was an nVidia driver in my video settings screen. Ok, all I have to do to enable it is to check it. I do so and it tells me I must reboot. Ok, I reboot. Loading... loading... BORK! Uh oh! X failed to load and it gives me the error message saying I have to edit some config file somewhere and dumps me on a command screen.

Now, I could have booted up Ubuntu from the disc and found out what config file needed updating and what commands I would need to use to do this but then again, I have a working OS on the other drive and the Simpsons was coming on so I decided to just nuke the Ubuntu install.

I knew going in that there would be bumps, particularly hardware bumps, but this was a bit hokey. I mean, why can't it just load the previous "default" configuration and let me know what the problem was from within a working desktop without me having to learn Linux commands and edit a file I know nothing about?

Call me nuts, but when any user is installing a driver it would be nice to have a safety net that contains the current working driver / settings backed up just in case the new driver doesn't work. I don't mind fiddling around with config files etc if I know that I can boot into a safe mode and easily revert the previous change. I have had catastrophic driver issues in Windows before and it was a pain to track down the root cause and find a solution but with a repair installation I could at least un-hose myself without farting around in DOS.

Also the Ubuntu Help system needs some work on it's searching algorithm. It couldn't tell me how to grant root OR even SuDo root on my default login, something I found very quickly with Google (which leads me to believe I'm not the first Linux n00b to hit the same problem).

[Lazybones]

Drivers still remain a PITA in Linux, and probably will for years to come.

End users do not want to deal with the Console (AKA command line)

[Tom]

Yeah, the new display config app isn't quite ready yet. Expect that, and the new versions of X to make the xorg.conf file useless.

[Thorin]

An interesting point is made in this article: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Microsoft's Mission Statement is "A computer on every desktop" - with the unspoken rider that each computer should be running Windows. Microsoft and Apple both sell operating systems, and both do their utmost to make sure their products get used by the largest number of people: They're businesses, out to make money.

And then there is FOSS. Which, even today, is almost entirely non-commercial.

[...]

Increasing the number of end-users of proprietary software leads to a direct financial benefit to the company that makes it. This is simply not the case for FOSS: There is no direct benefit to any FOSS developer in increasing the userbase. Indirect benefits, yes: Personal pride; an increased potential for finding bugs; more likelihood of attracting new developers; possibly a chance of a good job offer; and so on.

But Linus Torvalds doesn't make money from increased Linux usage. Richard Stallman doesn't get money from increased GNU usage. All those servers running OpenBSD and OpenSSH don't put a penny into the OpenBSD project's pockets. And so we come to the biggest problem of all when it comes to new users and Linux:

They find out they're not wanted.

New users come to Linux after spending their lives using an OS where the end-user's needs are paramount, and "user friendly" and "customer focus" are considered veritable Holy Grails. And they suddenly find themselves using an OS that still relies on 'man' files, the command-line, hand-edited configuration files, and Google. And when they complain, they don't get coddled or promised better things: They get bluntly shown the door.

That's an exaggeration, of course. But it is how a lot of potential Linux converts perceived things when they tried and failed to make the switch.

In an odd way, FOSS is actually a very selfish development method: People only work on what they want to work on, when they want to work on it. Most people don't see any need to make Linux more attractive to inexperienced end-users: It already does what they want it to do, why should they care if it doesn't work for other people?

[...]

All the Linux community wants is to create a really good, fully-featured, free operating system. If that results in Linux becoming a hugely popular OS, then that's great. If that results in Linux having the most intuitive, user-friendly interface ever created, then that's great. If that results in Linux becoming the basis of a multi-billion dollar industry, then that's great.

It's great, but it's not the point. The point is to make Linux the best OS that the community is capable of making. Not for other people: For itself. The oh-so-common threats of "Linux will never take over the desktop unless it does such-and-such" are simply irrelevant: The Linux community isn't trying to take over the desktop. They really don't care if it gets good enough to make it onto your desktop, so long as it stays good enough to remain on theirs.

[...]

It's not just about "Why should I want Linux?". It's also about "Why should Linux want me?"

[Tom]

I would have to say that sums it up. Though some of the distros try and be the hand holding codling OS that people expect. Which is great

[Darren Dirt]

I would have to say that sums it up. Though some of the distros try and be the hand holding codling OS that people expect. Which is great

OR, just get a Mac

[Cova]

I've found its virtually always better to install things on linux through the distributions package management system instead of any installer that is provided by a third party.  If I remember right, ubuntu uses apt for package-management, which would mean you likely have a GUI package manager called synaptic.  And you can probably snag the nvidia binary driver from there - it might be a point-version or so behind the nVidia release, but it'll be bundled specifically for the way your distro is configured.

I prefer gentoo for a desktop linux distro - and changing from the built-in open source nvidia driver (known as nv) to the binary nvidia driver (known as nvidia), consists of running 'emerge nvidia-drivers' to download/install the driver, and changing 1 line in /etc/X11/xorg.conf from "Driver   nv" to "Driver   nvidia".  And gentoo doesn't try and hold users hands at all - its very much a power-user distro.

[Tom]

Actually, changing your X config is a little easier, nvidia-xconfig will help you change your xconfig before nvidia-settings is able to run.

[Mr. Analog]

New Failsafe Graphics Mode For Ubuntu

Well, that solves that then!

[Tom]

I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/

[Cova]

I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/

I'm not sure if I like the sound of that.  It reminds me my progression through all of MS's OS's over the years.  Specifically how on older ones you could always go behind the OS, edit its config files, and force it to work if it didn't detect stuff properly (which it never did back then, granted detection is MUCH better now).  It worries me not having an xorg.conf file - the settings have to be saved somewhere, and I want to be able to edit it myself (though I also want to be able to run a system without ever opening it).

Ease of use is good and important, but PLEASE don't remove advanced config options just cause 99% of people can't use them - just put them slightly out of sight where regular users don't go.

[Mr. Analog]

I can hardly wait for all the new X features. with full randr 1.2 support, hal support (for device detection and events), and the ditching of xorg.conf all together will make for a really nice experience. \o/

I'm not sure if I like the sound of that.  It reminds me my progression through all of MS's OS's over the years.  Specifically how on older ones you could always go behind the OS, edit its config files, and force it to work if it didn't detect stuff properly (which it never did back then, granted detection is MUCH better now).  It worries me not having an xorg.conf file - the settings have to be saved somewhere, and I want to be able to edit it myself (though I also want to be able to run a system without ever opening it).

Ease of use is good and important, but PLEASE don't remove advanced config options just cause 99% of people can't use them - just put them slightly out of sight where regular users don't go.

Agreed 100%

[Tom]

The Config options aren't gone, and the xorg.conf file will be made "redundant". IIRC it will be used if there for default settings before things like kdm, krandrtray and what not set your settings via dbus. Otherwise, it won't be "required".

Also, you'll be able to change any setting at runtime via dbus, so with "bulletproof x" and that, you have no reason to have the config file in 99.999% of the cases.

[Cova]

So..., they aren't getting rid of xorg.conf then - they're just finally putting in good default values / logic to auto-detect good default values.  I have no problems with that (in fact I like it) cause I can still override anything I want.



Also - semi-related to this topic, you guys may find it interesting to know that I've switched to Gentoo for my main desktop at work.  And NAIT is very much a MS shop - so my issues so far have all been about getting my desktop integrated with the rest of NAIT's network.  So far, Evolution is working great as an Exchange client, no issues browsing file shares around the network, and managing our linux-based network devices (eg. the service console for all our VMware ESX hosts) is so much easier from a linux workstation.  The hardest thing to make work so far was printing to printers shared out from windows servers - and even that only took me about an hour to get working.

Currently I've also got a second system running Vista that I use for the few things that just can't be done from linux - MS SQL Management Studio, VMware Virtual Infrastructure Client, and MS Visio are the 3 main things I need that don't have linux equivalents.  But every time I use it I get a little closer to formatting that box and installing Gentoo on it too, and building a XP VM to run those few tools - Vista really does suck.

[Tom]

I found windows feels much better in a VM on my new machine than it does on bare hardware. I can't explain it. Also, I suggest you try out VirtualBox for desktop VM stuff on linux, its speedier than VMWare Server, provides all the same features (and probably more), and is still free.