Just found another cool way to use GMail

[Thorin]

I've signed up to be the webmaster for my son's hockey team.  That doesn't take much work - the hockey association uses a shrink-wrapped sports portal, so all I'm really doing is adding data like player names and game scores through a web interface.

Normally all volunteers are listed in the Team Staff section.  I figured I wanted to show my email address, but I don't want it to get harvested.  So I set up a new GMail account.  Well, turns out that I can add the new account to my existing account, and all email automatically gets forwarded from the new account to my existing account, and when I reply to an email sent to the new account it shows my new account in the "From" field.  This means that I can create temporary email accounts without needing to set up forwarding on the new accounts and without having to worry about giving out my true email address!  Yay!

[Melbosa]

I wish they would implement an option of the email client determines what to do with the message.  I want to have my home email client tell GMail to removed the messages from the server, but my work email client to leave the message on the mail server.  So I have one client that cleans out my mail box and is the master, while the other are just leaches of content, but not the master of what to do with that content.  ISP email servers, our exchange server at work, and any email server I have setup is by default configured this way, save GMail when used as a pop3 server.  Also GMail marks the message as downloaded when using a pop3 client, so I can't even have my email clients download the same message multiple times from different installs.  Most email clients will know when they have already downloaded a message, even after you delete it from the client itself.

I've requested this feature from google, but have yet to see it.

[Thorin]

Okay, why would you want any of your POP3 clients to remove messages from the server?  If your main client removes a message from the server, you won't be able to access it, respond to it, delete it from your inbox, etc, from your secondary client.  In the meantime, any email that has been downloaded from the server to your main client no longer exists on the server, so if the computer your main client is installed on pooches you no longer have those emails.

As you can tell, I'm all for centralized email storage.  Storing one's emails on a single machine seems so... single-computerish.  I wouldn't even be able to switch from one home computer to another and continue working with the same email, if I tried to set it up the way you describe.

[Darren Dirt]

I've signed up to be the webmaster for my son's hockey team.  That doesn't take much work - the hockey association uses a shrink-wrapped sports portal, so all I'm really doing is adding data like player names and game scores through a web interface.

Normally all volunteers are listed in the Team Staff section.  I figured I wanted to show my email address, but I don't want it to get harvested.  So I set up a new GMail account.  Well, turns out that I can add the new account to my existing account, and all email automatically gets forwarded from the new account to my existing account, and when I reply to an email sent to the new account it shows my new account in the "From" field.  This means that I can create temporary email accounts without needing to set up forwarding on the new accounts and without having to worry about giving out my true email address!  Yay!

That is pretty nice, especially for those times you forget you are replying from your "real" address

I also really like how gmail lets you use the "+...." syntax, great for site registration that doesn't allow mailinator, etc. -- for example, say my email is "clark.kent@gmail.com", and I sign up to "www.whyforgivelex.com", I could use the email "clark.kent+lexforgivenever@gmail.com" and if I find more emails coming to me with that address I know the site I signed up on is selling addresses to spammers etc. BLOCK'D!

[Melbosa]

Okay, why would you want any of your POP3 clients to remove messages from the server?  If your main client removes a message from the server, you won't be able to access it, respond to it, delete it from your inbox, etc, from your secondary client.  In the meantime, any email that has been downloaded from the server to your main client no longer exists on the server, so if the computer your main client is installed on pooches you no longer have those emails.

As you can tell, I'm all for centralized email storage.  Storing one's emails on a single machine seems so... single-computerish.  I wouldn't even be able to switch from one home computer to another and continue working with the same email, if I tried to set it up the way you describe.

For organization, and centralization.  I have over 8 email addresses I maintain, all on seperate email services.  My email client can reply with the address it was received from, so that handles that aspect.  GMail doesn't let me create my own folder structures for emails, so having it connect to each email service to centralize it that way doesn't help either.  Plus I don't always have internet access, but always do have a computer with me that has my email client on it (laptop is my master by the way) which syncs to my server at home, which is then backed up.  I hate relying on external services, as they can at any point turn GMail, Hotmail, anything else into a pay for service or even worse cancel it all together.

These are my reasons, and they are enough for me to want said option that seems to be a normal option with every other email server installation.  Just wish GMail would give me the option as well.

These may not fit your needs, so each person has his/her own way of management.

[Thorin]

GMail allows you to label (essentially single-tagging) messages that are retrieved from other mail accounts via POP.  But your point about not wanting to rely on outside sources makes that moot.

Which leaves me one major question: Since you have an email server sitting at home collecting all your emails, why not just leave them stored on the server?  Why download them to the laptop and then delete them from the server?  What if your laptop battery goes bad and the thing bursts into flames?  Won't you be missing any email you've downloaded from the server but not yet deleted from your inbox on your laptop?

[Melbosa]

Which leaves me one major question: Since you have an email server sitting at home collecting all your emails, why not just leave them stored on the server?  Why download them to the laptop and then delete them from the server?  What if your laptop battery goes bad and the thing bursts into flames?  Won't you be missing any email you've downloaded from the server but not yet deleted from your inbox on your laptop?

You miss-understood, or assumed I meant I have a mail server at home.  When I said synced to my server, it just syncs the mail file to the file server on my network, not any type of mail server.  I have a file for every year, and create a new one every new years day.

So the laptop is the master, a backup exists to a server on my network should my laptop crater, and that backup is backed up to external media.  I then make burns every once and a while of all my data and store it at work.

But back to GMail, reason I still don't use my gmail accounts (yes I have more than one - @righteouswrath is Gmail Corporate afterall), labels require me to log into my GMail to set them up, or update them.  Should I get email to two different accounts, but related to one subject/client, I organize this in my folder structure on my email client.  I very rarely log into my gmail accounts directly, nor do I like either gmail's or hotmail's interfaces (even after hotmails facelift to Live!).

[Mr. Analog]

Hotmail I can understand but GMail is pretty awesome as far as webmail goes.

Personally, I haven't used an actual mail client for two years and I really haven't looked back.

[Thorin]

Okay, so you're not syncing, you're backing up your mail file.

You're keeping an amazing amount of old data, presumably because they're work emails.

You use a hierarchical folder structure rather than labeling, because that's what you're used to.  I prefer labeling to organizing.  What happens if an email has two parts to it that sort to different hierarchical structures?  With labels, you just apply two labels.  With hierarchical structures, you have to define a new structure (this reminds me of a discussion not too long ago about the Video subforum).

How hard is labeling?  Click the checkboxes next to the emails you want to label, click the More Actions dropdown list, select New Label, and enter the name of the new label.  How do you view all emails with that label attached?  Click the label name in the left-hand column (as soon as you made the new label, it appeared in the list). I'm willing to bet that if you tried it, you'd find it mindbendingly easy.  If multiple emails from multiple email accounts come in that have to do with the same thing, you just apply the same label to each of them.

GMail also has an incredible search mechanism.

GMail's biggest shortcoming, to me, is that it requires web access to be able to read emails - they're not in an email file on your local machine.  But then, how many places do you go that you absolutely must have access to email from three years ago where you don't have web access?

[Melbosa]

You'd be surprised actually how often I refer to old emails with contracting.

As for the web interface, I still can't stand GMail's interface.  It just isn't my thing (guess cause I use Outlook so heavily at work).  Yes I agree the searching in GMail is nice.  Yes I know labelling isn't that hard, but it doesn't help if I'm looking for Emails from my uncle about a project in 2006, when it was contract related, under his company not mine (can you see what a label nightmare this would be??? - That is what 4 labels already?  <- Realize there would be also the label of what email address it came in under.)

I might consider changing if GMail would upload my old stuff and label them as my folder structures, or might change in the new year when I would start a new file.

But I would have to see how the POP3 from other mail systems worked, and would it let me reply as those email addresses??? Probably not on that last point (ISP emails, corporate emails that I am a support contact on - admin account I monitor, etc...).  If they were all GMail accounts, then yes this would work, but I don't want to be dealing with 2 email different systems either (maintaining my email client and GMail account) because the other email addresses aren't GMail. 

So I might be stuck with my system for now... I am slowly consolidating my email accounts, but some I just can't, as I don't really own them, I just administer them until such time as they get someone else to work on their systems.  Right now my email client lets me deal with that situation very easily.

[Thorin]

I wish they would implement an option of the email client determines what to do with the message.  I want to have my home email client tell GMail to removed the messages from the server, but my work email client to leave the message on the mail server.  [..]  ISP email servers, our exchange server at work, and any email server I have setup is by default configured this way, save GMail when used as a pop3 server.  Also GMail marks the message as downloaded when using a pop3 client, so I can't even have my email clients download the same message multiple times from different installs.

I think this is what you want to do?

How do I download mail to multiple POP clients?

To access your messages with multiple POP clients, use recent mode in every client to make sure that all messages are made available, rather than only to the first client to access new mail. Recent mode fetches the last 30 days of mail, regardless of whether it's been sent to another POP client already.

To enable Recent mode, replace 'username@gmail.com' in the Username field of your POP client settings with 'recent:username@gmail.com' and ensure that the Leave messages on server option in your POP client is enabled.

So set up your satellite clients to check recent:username@gmail.com and to leave the messages on the server, then set up your main client to check recent:username@gmail.com but to remove messages from the server.  Whether or not to delete messages from the server after downloading is a client setting, not a server setting.  Here's the Outlook 2003 settings dialog where you set that up:

Yes I know labelling isn't that hard, but it doesn't help if I'm looking for Emails from my uncle about a project in 2006, when it was contract related, under his company not mine (can you see what a label nightmare this would be??? - That is what 4 labels already?  <- Realize there would be also the label of what email address it came in under.)

Four labels, no.  Do you filter it to four different folders now?  Why not just label that "2006 Contracts Uncle's Company"?  Or two labels, "2006 Contracts" and "Uncle's Company"?  As it is now, you can't see a list of all emails for your uncle's company regardless of year anyway, so you'd actually get *more* functionality.  I don't have a POP account to play with so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that you can set GMail up so that it auto-labels any email that comes from a different account as having come from that account.

As for the web interface, I still can't stand GMail's interface.  It just isn't my thing (guess cause I use Outlook so heavily at work).

I've gotten used to the web interface and like it better than I did Outlook 2003 (and *way* better than Outlook Web Access).  I'll point out that GMail is a mail client, whereas Outlook is an office productivity tool with delegatable tasks and calendar items and all that jazz (yes, I know that Google Calendar does quite a few of those extra things and integrates nicely with GMail).  Not liking the web interface is a personal-taste issue; needing access to delegatable tasks and bookable appointments and all that might convince me to use Outlook (still prefer Outlook over <shudder> Notes).

But I would have to see how the POP3 from other mail systems worked, and would it let me reply as those email addresses??? Probably not on that last point (ISP emails, corporate emails that I am a support contact on - admin account I monitor, etc...).

See screenshot?  I highlighted the parts that answer this question?  Again, I don't have a non-GMail account to test this with but I'd bet that it does, given the options on the Account tab of the Settings page and the Help text describing that functionality.

[Melbosa]

So set up your satellite clients to check recent:username@gmail.com and to leave the messages on the server, then set up your main client to check recent:username@gmail.com but to remove messages from the server.  Whether or not to delete messages from the server after downloading is a client setting, not a server setting.  Here's the Outlook 2003 settings dialog where you set that up:

Yeah, doesn't work that way.  The options are based on the screen attached, not what your client does.

Four labels, no.  Do you filter it to four different folders now?  Why not just label that "2006 Contracts Uncle's Company"?  Or two labels, "2006 Contracts" and "Uncle's Company"?

I could, but I probably wouldn't go through all that effort, would just leave it in Outlook format.

As it is now, you can't see a list of all emails for your uncle's company regardless of year anyway, so you'd actually get *more* functionality.  I don't have a POP account to play with so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that you can set GMail up so that it auto-labels any email that comes from a different account as having come from that account.

Not more functionality, as I can do this with Outlook as well.  Other than the better search engine, everything you can go with GMail I can do with Outlook, plus more than GMail. 

<----- Exchange Admin, so pretty much know Outlook inside and out, from 95-2007 versions.

I've gotten used to the web interface and like it better than I did Outlook 2003 (and *way* better than Outlook Web Access).  I'll point out that GMail is a mail client, whereas Outlook is an office productivity tool with delegatable tasks and calendar items and all that jazz (yes, I know that Google Calendar does quite a few of those extra things and integrates nicely with GMail).  Not liking the web interface is a personal-taste issue; needing access to delegatable tasks and bookable appointments and all that might convince me to use Outlook (still prefer Outlook over <shudder> Notes).

Yeah, GMail has some nice extras, but doesn't still compare to having the whole options of a communication tool like Outlook.

See screenshot?  I highlighted the parts that answer this question?  Again, I don't have a non-GMail account to test this with but I'd bet that it does, given the options on the Account tab of the Settings page and the Help text describing that functionality.

As explained in the GMail help: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?ctx=%67mail&hl=en&answer=22370 the client's receiving the message will be able to tell where the message originated.  This is not the practice I want, especially with the corporate accounts I look after, as those are my own email addresses that say my client's clients don't need to know.  If GMail could interface with my other POP3/SMTP servers, send through them as that account I would love the service, and the chance to combine all my accounts.  But I know for a fact this will never happen with Shaw POP accounts, as you have to be on a Shaw IP to even utilize their SMTP servers.

And unfortunately this:

Note: your Gmail address will still be included in your email headers in the sender field, to help prevent your mail from being marked as spam.

Only reduces the spam score you get, it isn't a sanctioned practice through email, unless you are sending on behalf of an account in the same domain, so spam appliances/software will give this a higher score in their processing (and potentially still get marked as spam)

<------ Again is an Email Administrator, deals with that too all the time (spam, the worst part of email admining!!!!!!!!!)

I appreciate your points, and this discussion.  You have made me really think hard as to my practices and had me take a hard look at GMail as my primary email system.  Alas I don't think it meets my needs at this time.