Siding with the Villain

Mr. Analog · December 22, 2009, 11:27:39 PM

So, I just re-watched Gormenghast again for the first time in several years (and I do mean watched it, end-to-end). The villain is supposed to be a wicked, unlikable slime but I found he was more human than most of the characters presented.

There are a lot of situations like this in fiction I find... what do you guys think?

Melbosa · December 22, 2009, 11:43:08 PM

Well yeah... Vader is a prefect example. Or Anti-heros I find very likable in fiction.

Mr. Analog · December 22, 2009, 11:46:50 PM

I hear ya, I mean even before the prequel trilogy after you see Return of the Jedi with the whole redemption motif it, really adds a new dimension to one badass character.

Same thing with Skeletor from He-Man, if you accept the 2003 series as canon he was more a victim of circumstance than anything else.

Or the character Antonio Salieri (from Amadeus), again another bad guy you just wanna cheer for.

Lazybones · December 23, 2009, 12:20:25 AM

Wile E Coyote is far more interesting than the Road Runner...

Mr. Analog · December 23, 2009, 08:23:33 AM

Quote from: Lazybones on December 23, 2009, 12:20:25 AM
Wile E Coyote is far more interesting than the Road Runner...

This is true...

Tonnica · December 24, 2009, 01:58:41 AM

Siding with the villain is really common. Why? The villain usually gets a lot of interesting character development, takes wild risks, and does things the viewer wishes they had the power to do. Depending on your mood it may be much more empowering to envision yourself in the role of the wicked villain rather than the goody-goody protagonist.

I hear from one of my friends that the "villain" from Avatar is part of what makes it worth watching. The same goes for No Country for Old Men. And wouldn't you rather be the Predator than the gaggle of humans that get hunted? Or is the villain just that bit more human than the other characters, someone who's had a hard time of it that makes it easier to connect with them?

Villains are a guilty pleasure.

Thorin · December 24, 2009, 01:52:52 PM

I dunno, depends on the villain I think. For instance, I've never found myself sympathetic to rapists in movies. Perhaps it comes down to whether the villain is trying to do right but doesn't know what right is, or whether the villain is explicitly doing sociopathic things. For instance, Darth Vader was trying to enforce structure and rule in the Republic. In his own eyes, he's at least trying to do right. The villain in the Saw movies is just plain horrible.

Darren Dirt · December 26, 2009, 02:38:09 AM

Quote from: Mr. Analog on December 22, 2009, 11:27:39 PM
So, I just re-watched Gormenghast again for the first time in several years (and I do mean watched it, end-to-end). The villain is supposed to be a wicked, unlikable slime but I found he was more human than most of the characters presented.

There are a lot of situations like this in fiction I find... what do you guys think?

I'm addicted to Entourage right now, and I care less about Vinnie Chase and more about Ari Gold (and especially any scene with Mrs. Ari, seeing more of his fully developed character come out) although he's a villain only in contrast with most of us honest folks who don't lie all the time and exploit people's greed and egos and immoral past experiences (i.e. blackmail) ... anyway not really on topic, although it is always a nice surprise to immerse in a fictional world where the villain is not just some paper-thin scenery-chewing excuse for the hero to blow @%&# up and end the scene with a puntactular one-liner. Character development keeps an audience hooked in for the long haul, that and lots of lots of walking* (just ask Tolkien

)

Quote from: Thorin on December 24, 2009, 01:52:52 PM
I dunno, depends on the villain I think. For instance, I've never found myself sympathetic to rapists in movies. Perhaps it comes down to whether the villain is trying to do right but doesn't know what right is, or whether the villain is explicitly doing sociopathic things. For instance, Darth Vader was trying to enforce structure and rule in the Republic. In his own eyes, he's at least trying to do right. The villain in the Saw movies is just plain horrible.

Another HBO addiction is Curb, and OMG this season Larry is completely unlikeable, almost comic book-esque in how un-relatable his shenanigans are... I am laughing out loud more than I ever thought possible, all the time thinking "why does anyone ever want to spend time with him???" so in a way he is a villain, but not at all a sympathetic villain, more like a "what a sad little man" kind. Only 1 episode had all the crap happen as a result of other people's behaviour/words, instead of the usual Larry faux pas that starts a chain reaction of oops. But in his OWN eyes he's not malicious, he's just stubborn and sure about the way he thinks things should be...

Quote from: Tonnica on December 24, 2009, 01:58:41 AM
Siding with the villain is really common. Why? The villain usually gets a lot of interesting character development, takes wild risks, and does things the viewer wishes they had the power to do. Depending on your mood it may be much more empowering to envision yourself in the role of the wicked villain rather than the goody-goody protagonist.

Maybe that's why I enjoy so much watching characters like Ari or Larry

*a little something for fans of Clerks 2

Tom · December 26, 2009, 05:05:23 AM

Maybe a little too nerdy, but hey, I always side with Lupin III

Mr. Analog · December 27, 2009, 04:36:13 PM

Quote from: Tom on December 26, 2009, 05:05:23 AM
Maybe a little too nerdy, but hey, I always side with Lupin III

Well, he is the best of course

I feel a lot of times I am Inspector Zenigata chasing something I can't catch, but I don't know what it is. So I like him (and I guess he's the "villain" of the series).