Hybrid vs. Gasoline

[Shayne]

My father is taking possession of his Civic Hybrid on Friday and my jaw dropped to the floor when i ran really rough numbers on this totally brutal purchase.



The point of the car is for him to get to work and back, he normally drives a Dodge Ram truck, but resently didnt feel a need for it as their second vehicle is a Honda Element (i love this little machine).



So anyways:

Hybrid   $28,500/60 = $475/m

Gas Milage = 4.8L/100 : 72L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $74.09/m for gas



Normal   $16,200/60 = $270/m

Gas Milage = 6.9L/100 : 103.5L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $106.50/m for gas



..after 5 years of ownership..



Hybrid   $28,500 + $4,445.40 = $32,945.40

Normal   $16,500 + $6,390.00 = $22,890.00



..after 10 years of ownership



Hybrid   $28,500 + $8,890.80 = $37,390.80

Normal   $16,500 + $12,780.00 = $29,280.00



assumes 0% interest on the loan and $1.029/L for fuel

...my assuming the 0% and gas being the same sorta balances out.  Im sure the loan is 4.9% or so and gas will go up, but the extra on the loan should offset the gas price going up.



...for the 1500Km/m i decided 20K/12 was a good place to start for average driving (common for warentee numbers).



Its a shame Toyota doesnt have a gasoline Prius i could look into, i hear they are much better value, but still in the 10 year area to break even.[/quote]

[Lazybones]

My father is taking possession of his Civic Hybrid on Friday and my jaw dropped to the floor when i ran really rough numbers on this totally brutal purchase.



The point of the car is for him to get to work and back, he normally drives a Dodge Ram truck, but resently didnt feel a need for it as their second vehicle is a Honda Element (i love this little machine).



So anyways:

Hybrid   $28,500/60 = $475/m

Gas Milage = 4.8L/100 : 72L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $74.09/m for gas



Normal   $16,200/60 = $270/m

Gas Milage = 6.9L/100 : 103.5L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $106.50/m for gas



..after 5 years of ownership..



Hybrid   $28,500 + $4,445.40 = $32,945.40

Normal   $16,500 + $6,390.00 = $22,890.00



..after 10 years of ownership



Hybrid   $28,500 + $8,890.80 = $37,390.80

Normal   $16,500 + $12,780.00 = $29,280.00



assumes 0% interest on the loan and $1.029/L for fuel

...my assuming the 0% and gas being the same sorta balances out.  Im sure the loan is 4.9% or so and gas will go up, but the extra on the loan should offset the gas price going up.



...for the 1500Km/m i decided 20K/12 was a good place to start for average driving (common for warentee numbers).



Its a shame Toyota doesnt have a gasoline Prius i could look into, i hear they are much better value, but still in the 10 year area to break even.

[/quote]



The Hybrids only significatly out perform a conventional car in ultra heavy, low speed, stop and go city travel.. They are somewhat point less if you do heavy highway driving.



Not sure if this is still the case but I believe Toyota was moving toward having all modles hybrid by 2007. If that is the case, the increase in production volume should drive the price down.



Honda and Toyota's hybrid systems are also very differant.. I believe Toyota's allows the car to operate completly on one system or the other where the Honda one is dependant on the gas motor runing at atleast idle at all times.

[Shayne]

The fuel milage i gave was a 50/50 split of Highway/City as most people probably do that in a year.



I do know that Toyota and Honda do it differently.  I also found lots of guides on how to drive your Hybrid more efficently.  Things like coast whenever possible, slower acceleration (as slamming on the pedal uses the gas engine too).



I still dont think its worth it.  If a hybrid takes more then 5 years to pay itself off, then its just not worth the cost.  Leasing might be an option for a business looking to save.



Even then, id be curious to drive say a Toyota Celica Hybrid vs. GTS.  The extra weight of a battery array and electric motor could critically impact the handling and performance of the small little sport coupe.

[Lazybones]

The fuel milage i gave was a 50/50 split of Highway/City as most people probably do that in a year.



I do know that Toyota and Honda do it differently.  I also found lots of guides on how to drive your Hybrid more efficently.  Things like coast whenever possible, slower acceleration (as slamming on the pedal uses the gas engine too).



I still dont think its worth it.  If a hybrid takes more then 5 years to pay itself off, then its just not worth the cost.  Leasing might be an option for a business looking to save.



Even then, id be curious to drive say a Toyota Celica Hybrid vs. GTS.  The extra weight of a battery array and electric motor could critically impact the handling and performance of the small little sport coupe.

I was sort of agreeing. Hybrids are not for most people.. The have a more specific maket. I know that the postal service has looked at them because their delivery truks basicly go a block and stop all day long.. almost ideal for a hybrid.



If you want something cheap on fuel those tiny smartcars about about as good as they get. If you don't mind having such a tiny useless car.

[Thorin]

The Hybrid most resembles the LX-G with automatic in equipment and driving characteristics.  The LX-G is more expensive than the base model.  Your numbers change as follows.

Hybrid   $28,500/60m = $475/m

Gas Milage = 4.8L/100 : 72L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $74.09/m for gas



Normal   $21,100/60 = $352/m

Gas Milage = 6.9L/100 : 103.5L/m (assume 1500km/m) = $106.50/m for gas



..after 5 years of ownership..



Hybrid   $28,500 + $4,445.40 = $32,945.40

Normal   $21,100 + $6,390.00 = $27,490.00



..after 10 years of ownership



Hybrid   $28,500 + $8,890.80 = $37,390.80

Normal   $21,100 + $12,780.00 = $33,880.00

I've been telling my in-laws that hybrids suck for their kind of driving.  The Civic Hybrid sucks for most kinds of driving.  To have it pay off in 5 years, you need to drive almost 6,000kms/month.



On the other hand, the GM hybrid full-size pickup will pay off it's extra cost much sooner.  And it doesn't work with a smaller motor - they kept the same big V8 in there.  What they did was offload the electrical system, so there's less drag on the engine while driving.  Apparently, it has about 15% better fuel economy.  And that's a lot of gas :p

[Shayne]

I was told that the Toyota Prius was a better value, so i ran the numbers and its still asstasstic.  Sure its fuel economy is 0.6 better, but its also $2000 more, so it pretty much balances off.



Hybrid just isnt the way to go.  Lots of nifty marketting.