Choosing a new router...or hacking the BIOS

Lazybones · May 29, 2007, 08:58:09 PM

Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 29, 2007, 08:47:55 PM
I was also discussing the idea of getting a second cable modem with Tonnica today, between the two of us the cost is negligible and seeing the price of the multi-WAN / dual mode capable routers it might be something to consider...

I highly double you are saturating your down link, before purchasing more lines you should really try and find out where you are using up the bandwidth, I could probably come over and run some test on your traffic use. If you are saturating your uplink having separate connections for each of you might do the trick, but I would be interested in what is saturating the link.

Melbosa runs a bunch of systems on 1 linksys, and I share my link with someone one a linksys so I know a little about bandwidth use. The QoS features in the standard firmware stink, but QoS can't save you from some problems.

Tom · May 29, 2007, 09:28:42 PM

QuoteYay! Nerd Shopping Spree! LOL Cheesy

Proper QoS will fix any upstream saturation problems. Since I installed pfSense, I haven't had any issues with something using too much bandwidth. OpenBSD's "pf" packet filter framework is second to none. And pfSense's web gui is also second to none.

Course I've had less problems since upgrading to Shaw's "Ent" plan, all your traffic over Shaw's network is QoSed, so you get priority over regular home users

Lazybones · May 29, 2007, 10:47:53 PM

Quote from: Tom on May 29, 2007, 09:28:42 PM
QuoteYay! Nerd Shopping Spree! LOL Cheesy

Proper QoS will fix any upstream saturation problems. Since I installed pfSense, I haven't had any issues with something using too much bandwidth. OpenBSD's "pf" packet filter framework is second to none. And pfSense's web gui is also second to none.

Course I've had less problems since upgrading to Shaw's "Ent" plan, all your traffic over Shaw's network is QoSed, so you get priority over regular home users

QoS does not solve connection limiting. When using a NAT router your connection tracking limit is determined by the amount of ram on your device. Since you are running pfSense on a PC you probably have plenty of ram, however if Mr. A goes for another off the shelf device, he may run into problems again if all his users are using P2P at the same time and the Router is not configured to deal with connection limits correctly.

Tom · May 29, 2007, 10:56:02 PM

Quite true, but it seemed as if everyone was talking about bandwidth, not connection limits. A good business router aught to have plenty of ram.

One thing to note, if it is a connection limit problem, tell the router to not cache/remember the connections for very long. The default is several minutes or more, which in p2p time, thats like an age, so it can quickly use up all available memory.

Lazybones · May 29, 2007, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: Tom on May 29, 2007, 10:56:02 PM
Quite true, but it seemed as if everyone was talking about bandwidth, not connection limits. A good business router aught to have plenty of ram.

One thing to note, if it is a connection limit problem, tell the router to not cache/remember the connections for very long. The default is several minutes or more, which in p2p time, thats like an age, so it can quickly use up all available memory.

This can be done using 3rd party firmware on the Linksys, however first party firmware on most home/soho routers do not seem to let you tweak things at that level. Also the amount of RAM in most off the shelf routers is about the same really, they seem to differ more in processing power and software more than anything, with a few exceptions...

Tom · May 29, 2007, 11:07:56 PM

I would assume that a "Pro" model router (like the one Mr A mentioned) would have more ram, to partially justify the price they charge to business's

But yeah, I'd really like to get the cpu fan in my firewall replaced sooner rather than later, I can hear it from my room

(yes its been cleaned). 50 feet away

A couple other cpu fans of mine are getting loud as well, and I need to grab a 80x80 fan thats 15mm or less thick. My dad's new case was designed by a monkey. The HD won't fit at the same time as the case fan (if its a standard 2cm thick unit), and there is only one 3.5" bay, so its a HD, or Floppy, not both.

Melbosa · May 30, 2007, 08:24:28 AM

Sorry I have to agree with Lazy on this one. I don't think Mr. A's traffic is any higher than mine. DC5AB alone on my network does over 2GB+ of web traffic a month (last time I checked). And I do more than 200GB on average in a month down (and a lot is torrents which I share back up). Plus FTP, P2P, XBox 360 Online, PS3 Online, and play MMOs. I can't see needing more than what I have to meet your needs.

As Lazy said, it's all about Connection Management and Bandwidth QoS. Properly setup, sure your FTP speeds are hindered, but your websites publish fine. I've looked into adding another computer to the network to do this (back to good old clark connect), and possibly going the two modem route, but I don't have enough connections to warrent a second stream (load balancing works on connection in is connection out - otherwise you run into mis-diagnosed spoofing or look like a bot from the other end).

Mr. Analog · May 30, 2007, 08:32:22 AM

Well, all I know is that when I unplug my router and plug it back in everything goes back to normal. When I connect directly to the 'net with just my machine (and software firewall haha) everything is normal. When I have the router in there things get slow over time, but not every day. Yesterday for example was just fine for P2P and surfing, but a couple of days ago I could barely get connection.

Melbosa · May 30, 2007, 08:33:33 AM

If we look, DC5AB takes in roughly 230 hits a day: http://misc.righteouswrath.com/awstats/awstats.pl?month=04&year=2007&output=main&config=www.dc5ab.com&framename=index

RW takes roughly 50 hits: http://misc.righteouswrath.com/awstats/awstats.pl?month=04&year=2007&output=main&config=forums.righteouswrath.com&framename=index

And my other websites average about 25-30 hits a day combined. DC5AB has huge pictures that are shared out as well from their Gallery. And that plus my own needs, and still you guys can surf this webserver just fine.

Wow just noticed DC5AB did 6GB of traffic last month... good thing Cova put in some changes to prevent off site image linking.

Melbosa · May 30, 2007, 08:35:26 AM

Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 30, 2007, 08:32:22 AM
Well, all I know is that when I unplug my router and plug it back in everything goes back to normal. When I connect directly to the 'net with just my machine (and software firewall haha) everything is normal. When I have the router in there things get slow over time, but not every day. Yesterday for example was just fine for P2P and surfing, but a couple of days ago I could barely get connection.

Ahhh now this sounds like a dieing router. This I have seen before, with D-Link and Linksys. It might have over heated once or twice and now is having computation issues over time. A flash of the firmware might fix it - although this isn't a fix for an over heat, but sometimes does the trick.

Otherwise, with the cost of routers, I even bought a spare for home encase this started for me and I could swap out at 2 AM if need be.

Melbosa · May 30, 2007, 08:36:14 AM

What did you ISP say when you contacted them?

Mr. Analog · May 30, 2007, 08:54:07 AM

Quote from: Melbosa on May 30, 2007, 08:36:14 AM
What did you ISP say when you contacted them?

They said the line tested clean, I'm sure it's just the router. I do a surprising amount of traffic on my web server. While I don't have statistics on hand here I do know that I share a lot of image galleries (for disc golf and wallpaper).

Melbosa · May 30, 2007, 09:00:44 AM

If you do the type of traffic that DC5AB does on images, then you're doing awsome for a small little operation like you and I have in our houses!

Mr. Analog · May 30, 2007, 09:03:33 AM

Quote from: Melbosa on May 30, 2007, 09:00:44 AM
If you do the type of traffic that DC5AB does on images, then you're doing awsome for a small little operation like you and I have in our houses!

Just to illustrate the kind of traffic that crawls VGER, a search for "Nadesico" on Google Images yields my server in the first page, within the first 15 results.

Maybe I should throttle my web server HTTP bandwidth haha.

Lazybones · May 30, 2007, 09:04:05 AM

Quote from: Mr. Analog on May 30, 2007, 08:32:22 AM
Well, all I know is that when I unplug my router and plug it back in everything goes back to normal. When I connect directly to the 'net with just my machine (and software firewall haha) everything is normal. When I have the router in there things get slow over time, but not every day. Yesterday for example was just fine for P2P and surfing, but a couple of days ago I could barely get connection.

Actually this sounds exactly like what happens when the default firmware runs out of memory because it is not purging old connections.

In some revisions of the firmware the router just reboots.

Alternatively it could be a hardware problem where the unit is over heating but they run hot anyway.