UBUNTU: Ready for primtime? Maybe...

[Melbosa]

This is why I like VBox. Its faster, and has the same features as VMWare server on linux. And uses Qt for the gui, so its automatically better

Great if you are sticking with all Linux.  Me whom has a mix, and in a pinch needs to move VMs from linux over to windows for hardware/software updates, VMware Server is much better choice, as it gives me the simplicity in changing between systems much easier than VBox (try it if you don't believe me... much easier with VMware!).

[Lazybones]

Agreed..

However If all you need is a personal Desktop VM System I am impressed with VBox... My test box now has a XP and Vista client running on it...

[Tom]

This is why I like VBox. Its faster, and has the same features as VMWare server on linux. And uses Qt for the gui, so its automatically better

Great if you are sticking with all Linux.  Me whom has a mix, and in a pinch needs to move VMs from linux over to windows for hardware/software updates, VMware Server is much better choice, as it gives me the simplicity in changing between systems much easier than VBox (try it if you don't believe me... much easier with VMware!).

Right now I'm in the middle of a network upgrade (got a new GbE switch and a couple pci cards in the mail), and am about to setup xen on my second server so I can migrate the vms on the first server over. Runs windows too if you want to, but I don't

Agreed..

However If all you need is a personal Desktop VM System I am impressed with VBox... My test box now has a XP and Vista client running on it...

Its a GREAT desktop VM system. Best one I've used.

[Cova]

Obviously no - I think he meant to remove a disk other than the one the OS is installed to.  But guess what - that's just as likely to break windows as linux.  All the boot-loaders I know of (the windows one, and both grub and lilo) number all your disks/partitions in the order they find them in.  If the number of the OS drive is changed, it won't boot anymore - whether you removed a disk before it causing it's number to decrease, or you added disks before it and its number increases.  And the fix is the same for both windows and linux too - you edit some obscure file, in linux likely /boot/grub/grub.conf or in windows likely c:\boot.ini (which is flagged system, readonly, hidden, and you need to manually remove those flags before you can edit it, and put the flags back when yer done).

I gotta call shenanigans on that one Cova.  If I shut down Windows, unplug a drive (not the primary boot drive) and reboot windows will boot just fine.  Try it yourself, i do it regularly.  Also the file i had to modify was /etc/fstab

On a nice simple desktop system, where you typically boot from the first disk on the onboard disk controller (so on the PCI device list before any expansion slots) - adding and removing disks is likely to not change your boot order.  But the moment you start playing with more advanced boot setups, involving booting from PCI cards, etc. it gets fairly easy to break the windows boot loader.  BTW - here's the boot.ini from one of my XP Pro SP2 boxes:

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[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional"

/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut


The disk(0)rdisk(0) numbers can change when you add/remove disks, and then windows won't boot anymore.


As for the linux side - if /etc/fstab is the file you had to edit, then its only because that particular system wasn't setup to be able to handle disks moving around.  Instead of a line like:

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/dev/sda3               /               ext3            noatime         0 1

which mounts your drives based on where they are on the PCI/IDE/SCSI bus, mount them by their UUID, eg.  (or filesystem label's work too)

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UUID=d53cd54b-2d63-41f6-a889-9ede6f5d4da0 /                       ext3    defaults        1 1

[Tom]

mount them by their UUID, eg.  (or filesystem label's work too)

Doesn't help if the drive just isn't there.

[Lazybones]

New problem today.. Can't get PPTP installed and working in Gutsy.. All docs seem to be for older versions that use a different network manager..

Grrr.... Critical fail...

[Tom]

Network Manager is a pain in the ass. so is working with VPNs.

[Lazybones]

Network Manager is a pain in the ass. so is working with VPNs.

Oddly not so in Windows or MAC OS.. PPTP from a client perspective connecting to a server is also common in, Windows mobile phones, hell even the IPHONE can do it.

Full motion video in wobbly windows is cool though.. The inclusion of the restricted addons package in the package manager is nice.. Flash, Java and even Quicktime all work!

[Tom]

I mean in linux, when ever I tried.. It shouldn't be that hard, but then maybe its because NM is written in python. python attracts all the crappiest programmers. (Its easy, so I'll become a good programmer now!)

[Shayne]

So...close but not yet?

[Tom]

If you need VPNs in Network Manager, not yet

[Lazybones]

It is like asking a kid to clean their room.. When you walk in everything looks greatly improved until you open the closet or look under the bed and realize there is a lot of work left to do.

List of issues so far:
- 3D video drivers and installation (even if you know what you need getting it to work can be hard)
- Software installation in general. Why do some packages install, run a wizard and work while others download something and leave you to figure out what to do next?
- VPN, common and necessary to connect to the office. It seems they have completely altered their network manager in the last 3 releases as each release (accept Gutsy) has a Wiki with different directions for configuring a VPN.

The big thumbs up:
- The installer... presents a full GUI live CD desktop and install wizard that has fewer steps than windows.
- Hardware detection has improved but is not there, 2D video, sound and networking all worked right after boot
- Easy to install the common codecs and non open source stuff  people want. Quicktime, Flash, Java, DVD support... And they work!
- deb files and the GUI package manager make most software easy to install
- best 3D desktop, the effects are very customizable.. and the defaults are something you can live with or turn off.
- VirtualBox lets you run windows apps on the same desk top, fairly well.


So my Con list is shorter, but the amount of time I had to sink into solving issues is HUGE. They claim "it just works" but I say not yet.

[Tom]

- 3D video drivers and installation (even if you know what you need getting it to work can be hard)

For MOST people, all it requires is opening up the restricted driver manager, and installing the driver for your card, and restart X.

Software installation in general. Why do some packages install, run a wizard and work while others download something and leave you to figure out what to do next?

Not seen that myself. What software are you talking about?

[Lazybones]

For MOST people, all it requires is opening up the restricted driver manager, and installing the driver for your card, and restart X.

Search the Ubuntu forms for ATI.. This is probably not Ubuntu but ATIs drivers that are the problem. None the less it is common hardware.

Not seen that myself. What software are you talking about?

Looking at the standard VPN packages and the ATI package (it didn't set anything when installed). It is a case of OK now what, when you install them. Where things like the Desktop firewall tool have 4 screens of guided wizards.

[Tom]

Most packages don't have any guided wizards. afaik.

But I'll buy that some users are having issues with it not installing the drivers correctly.