"Net Zero" homes: Colour me IMPRESSED!

[Darren Dirt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_building

I found this Wikipedia article by a fluke, and noticed a link to a LOCAL project! o_o

http://www.riverdalenetzero.ca/
PDF FAQ -- incredibly useful, and promising, info!

...hmmm, I have to wonder why I have never heard of this project until my own accidental stumbling upon the Wikipedia article, and thus the link to the Riverdale project. :confused:

[Thorin]

Yes, impressive what one can accomplish when one wants to.  Notice, though, that the Riverdale Net Zero home is a duplex, and that each side of the duplex is expected to sell for $600,000 or more.  That's at least a $200k surcharge.  I wonder how much energy will be consumed by the people working in offices trying to make enough money to afford the house?

The fan-coil heating system is a gee-whiz idea, and holding 17,000 liters in a giant tank under the house to store heat is good idea, too.  The solar heating array and solar power array on top of it make the whole project *fugly*, though.

[Lazybones]

For heating and cooling I have heard a lot more about Geothermal systems (http://www.groundsourceenergy.com/) however they might not be possible in the city do to stuff underground or lack of land area.

[Darren Dirt]

One of the webpages mentioned that Avalon builders in Red Deer are planning, by 2015, on making ALL of their new home projects "net zero" o_o

Just think it's cool that of the 12 in Canada initially being attempted, one is here in Edmonchuk.

Also the 45-item FAQ is very interesting cuz it mentions all the choices they made, and why, for example, they did not choose a certain kind of geothermal, or windows, or shutters, etc... so there are obviously a whole bunch of alternative choices available for those who want an energy efficient home, even if they don't want the full NZ degree.

PS: 200K extra might seem like a lot, but considering the way it's being built it is expected to be still working and relatively maintenance free *100 years from now* -- that's a pretty good investment methinks. Not to mention the $200/year total energy cost expectation. 

[Lazybones]

PS: 200K extra might seem like a lot, but considering the way it's being built it is expected to be still working and relatively maintenance free *100 years from now* -- that's a pretty good investment methinks. Not to mention the $200/year total energy cost expectation. 

Only if you are handing it down to your grand children, but at that price you could probably just purchase a normal house plus a condo.

[Thorin]

$200k surcharge?  How do you think you're going to make all that money to pay it?  By working late at the office, of course.  You know, that office with the lights on and the HVAC going and the computer on and the servers on and the restaurant cooking food and delivering it to you just because you're there?  That was my whole point with that comment - the surcharge will simply cause the owner to use up energy at a higher rate somewhere else.  Of course, that energy cost is borne by someone else, so it *technically* doesn't count.

Maintenance free 100 years from now?  Yeah, right.  How maintenance free are houses from 50 years ago?  They may *claim* it'll be maintenance free, but have you actually examined how the cistern is built and with what materials?  What if 50 years from now you have to dig out that 17,000 liter cistern from _under the house_ to replace it?  It's basically a gigantinormous hot water tank.  And how long do hot water tanks last?  Not more than 20 or so years, normally.  What if you have to fix an outside wall?  They're basically wood with ripped-up paper inbetween.  If carpenter ants or termites or mice or some other vermin or pest ever find a way in, that's a pretty expensive wall to repair.  And wood walled houses *do not* last 50 years without maintenance.

Now on to the energy usage in the home - the solar array produces 5.6kWh.  During the day, when the sun is shining on it.  If the sun's behind the clouds or it's winter and there's less sun or it's raining or it's snowing or it's _night-time_, the solar array produces less or no electricity.  With no battery bank to store that electricity, it goes back into the pool.  Unfortunately, peak home electrical usage is between 5pm and 8pm - the solar array will not be producing peak power.  This means the theoretical $200 annual electrical bill will probably climb.  Now throw in someone like me, with stereos, TVs, computers, lights on for the kids at night, outside lights to discourage burglars, cellphone chargers, camera chargers, pocket video game chargers, a fridge _and_ a freezer, heat lamps, and all that other jazz, and I'd probably use more than 5kWh during peak consumption.

Which brings me back to the $200k surcharge.  They claim the bill would be $200 for water, gas, and electricity.  My water bill is about $100 a month, including sewer charge (they seem to have forgotten all about sewer usage charges in their $200 annual utility cost), my gas averages out annually to about $120 a month, and my electricity is about $100 a month.  That's $320 a month or $3,840 a year or $3,640 more a year than the more expensive house.  $200,000/$3,640/yr is almost 55 years for that surcharge to pay for itself.  And that's assuming their $200 theoretical yearly cost is anywhere close to reality!

Just as with hybrid cars, this is a neat idea with lots of whiz-bang engineering in it that does not pay for itself.  I am entirely impressed by the amount of thought that went into building this house as efficient as possible without ballooning over a million dollar pricetag, but when deciding how to spend my money I will go for the cheaper solution.

Speaking of cars, the FAQ answered a question about why the garage was built to fit only one car.  The smart-ass answer given was that it would fit two Smart cars just fine.  What an elitist @%&#ing answer!  How about the family of six that requires at _least_ a minivan-sized vehicle to haul the family around?!

[raeofsunshine]

plus in riverdale there is a few problems with that area namely floods not sure if the insurance covers them in that area. i know some companies in the past refused to pay out... ( had friends live in that area)

[Darren Dirt]

$200k surcharge? ... What an elitist @%&#ing answer!  How about the family of six that requires at _least_ a minivan-sized vehicle to haul the family around?!

grumpy much?

[Thorin]

The way you quoted that makes it seem like I think a $200,000 surcharge is an elitist answer, when in fact I was complaining about something completely different (the answer to a question about lack of garage space).

[Shayne]

If only that $200K surcharge was just a $200K surcharge.  Its actuallly $200K over 25 years at ~7% (current 5 year closed).  Much closer to $500K.

I have also read (But cant be sure if its accurate anymore) that Solar Cells last 25-40 years so the 100 years thing is pretty bull@%&# if that still holds true as you would have replaced the solar cells 3 or 4 times in that period.

What really is the benefit of a "Net Zero Home"?  I suppose you could save a few bucks (if you paid cash straight up for the house) and not have to worry about paying certain bills but is that so much of a burden for you?  So much so that you'd pay the extra $500K to not do it?

The prices the quote are "now" prices and these will surely come down however my father-in-law built their house with much of this energy saving stuff in mind.  I can't recall the insulation that it has but it leaks pretty much nothing into the world and takes near nothing back.  They have inline hot water heaters (something I plan to add to my new house on day 1) and an electric furnace that heats the flooring instead of forced air (if i recall they don't have natural gas even run to the house).  You can do a lot of these things on your own for a fraction of the cost and probably in the end save yourself a lot of cash.

Cash savings is the reason for this right?

As for the smart car, a family of 3 wouldn't even work   Though I already feel that problem, my new house only has a single car garage and we are looking at buying a basically pure summer vehicle (Pontiac Solstice GXP) this spring and wish we could park both in it during the cold winters.

Geothermal in Edmonton is possible, on 50th street their are 2 houses that have signs beside them that advertise that the house is geothermal.  I believe Jason in Support at Upside is getting it done to his house in the Castledowns area.