Tesla facts + Oatmeal guy is a zealous fanboy = double dose of awesome

[Darren Dirt]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

I think it's the longest Oatmeal content I've ever managed to read all the way through ... and I actually wish there was more.

[Darren Dirt]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

I think it's the longest Oatmeal content I've ever managed to read all the way through ... and I actually wish there was more.

Since some of you actually contributed to The Oatmeal's call for a goddamn Tesla Museum, thought I would share this couplastuff.

"It is time we stand together and demand that Nikola Tesla's Research be released so that we can finally become a sustainable society." http://releaseteslasresearch.weebly.com/

See Also: http://www.happyabout.com/OvercomingInventoritis-NikolaTeslaPatents.pdf



...found via http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/10-inventions-of-nikola-tesla-that.html


{
PS: wtf!? MILLIONS quickly donated for card games and movies for cancelled TV series etc... but less than $50k towards THIS project (possibly harnessing the free energy that Tesla clearly believed is readily available for all) ?!?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-build-a-planetary-energy-transmitter/
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/physicists-seek-help-to-build-nikola.html
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/08/is-free-energy-slowly-being-unveiled.html
}
Planet... not sure if want to live on it anymore...

[Mr. Analog]

PS: wtf!? MILLIONS quickly donated for card games and movies for cancelled TV series

https://youtu.be/EL8e2ujXe8g

[Tom]

PS: wtf!? MILLIONS quickly donated for card games and movies for cancelled TV series

https://youtu.be/EL8e2ujXe8g

lol!

[Darren Dirt]

"The Oatmeal" is a Tesla fanboy.

Now also a Tesla Model S* fanboy.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s <<< yup he bought one of these Magical Space Cars.

*aka "Ultra Stealth NinjaCar", among other names.

[Thorin]

"The Oatmeal" is a Tesla fanboy.

Now also a Tesla Model S* fanboy.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s <<< yup he bought one of these Magical Space Cars.

*aka "Ultra Stealth NinjaCar", among other names.

This guy's Tesla was such a ninja, it chopped off his head before he could react: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/28/tesla_autopilot_death_driver_was_speeding/
(okay, it doesn't actually say he was beheaded in the article...)

So a quick comparison.  I bought a 2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT with the 5.3L engine and the Z71 base package (no chrome tubular steps, but has the offroad extras).  It cost $40,000 all-in.  I get pretty bad gas mileage, what with a lot of city driving and a lot of towing.  I think I've averaged 20L/100km over the last 65,000km (3 years 8 months so far), or 13,000L.  With a gas price of $1/L, that's $13,000 in gas so far.  Add in eight oil changes at $100 a piece and two rear diff flushes at $100 each (I'm guessing, I can't remember), that's $40,000 + $13,000 + $800 + $200 = $54,000.

That's bad gas mileage, and I've probably estimated high.  I actually get 11-13L/100km on the highway and sometimes as low as 10.0L/100km.  In the city it's anywhere between 13-19L/100km.  On the highway when towing (probably 20% of my kilometers now), I've gotten as low as 20 and as high as 30L/100km; it all depends on what direction the wind is blowing and whether I'm generally going into higher elevations or not.  But 20L/100km is a nice round number.

The car the Oatmeal guy is talking about is the Tesla Model S P85D.  That car is $85,900 + $4,295 GST = $90,195.

I need to spend another $36,195 on gas and oil to break even.  Every 8,000km I use 1,600L in gas and pay for a $100 oil change and put $25 towards a diff flush.  So that's $1,725 per 8,000km.  $36,000 / $1,720 x 8,000km = 166,956km.  So at 65,000km + 166,956km = 231,956km, I'd break even.  Lets call it 230,000km.  That's assuming I never pay for electricity.

Electricity costs about $0.05/kWh now.  The Tesla Model S P85D is rated to run 265 miles (425km) on an 85kWh charge, so that's 425km for $4.25.  230,000km / 425km x $4.25 = $2,300.  So at 230,000km, I'd still be in the black by a couple grand.

If I drive a typical 25,000km per year, and the batteries are warrantied for 8 years, then I can expect that the batteries will need to be swapped out at 200,000km, in other words before I've broken even.  And the battery packs are expected to cost $6,000 to $10,000 to replace.

Teslas and other partial- or fully-electric cars typically take a long, long time to pay off their investment.  Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of full-electric cars and I think Chevrolet has it exactly right with the Volt to add a gas-powered range extender to the car.  But they're a far cry from affordable replacement at this point.  As I showed above, the Model S P85D never actually breaks even against a V8-powered pickup truck, and it doesn't fit as many people as my truck, and it can't haul lumber or tow a giant trailer or drive through snowbanks.

Still, if I had a bucket of money just sitting around to spend on a car that expensive (meaning all my future bills and savings have been completely covered), I'd consider the Tesla Model S.  I'd get the P100D, though.  If you're gonna go big, might as well get the best.  Then again, I might just get a Nissan GT-R or the new Acura NSX or an Audi R8.

Since I don't have a bucket of money, I'll just stick with my truck and two used cars (the Mazda uses about 12L/100km, the Honda uses about 8L/100km, so driving them instead of the truck saves a boatload on gas).

Oh, and one complaint about that "almost no buttons, just a touchscreen".  Electronics are the weakest component on most cars.  Imagine not being able to close the sunroof because the touchscreen failed.

[Lazybones]

"The Oatmeal" is a Tesla fanboy.

Now also a Tesla Model S* fanboy.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s <<< yup he bought one of these Magical Space Cars.

*aka "Ultra Stealth NinjaCar", among other names.

This guy's Tesla was such a ninja, it chopped off his head before he could react: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/28/tesla_autopilot_death_driver_was_speeding/
(okay, it doesn't actually say he was beheaded in the article...)

So a quick comparison.  I bought a 2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT with the 5.3L engine and the Z71 base package (no chrome tubular steps, but has the offroad extras).  It cost $40,000 all-in.  I get pretty bad gas mileage, what with a lot of city driving and a lot of towing.  I think I've averaged 20L/100km over the last 65,000km (3 years 8 months so far), or 13,000L.  With a gas price of $1/L, that's $13,000 in gas so far.  Add in eight oil changes at $100 a piece and two rear diff flushes at $100 each (I'm guessing, I can't remember), that's $40,000 + $13,000 + $800 + $200 = $54,000.

That's bad gas mileage, and I've probably estimated high.  I actually get 11-13L/100km on the highway and sometimes as low as 10.0L/100km.  In the city it's anywhere between 13-19L/100km.  On the highway when towing (probably 20% of my kilometers now), I've gotten as low as 20 and as high as 30L/100km; it all depends on what direction the wind is blowing and whether I'm generally going into higher elevations or not.  But 20L/100km is a nice round number.

The car the Oatmeal guy is talking about is the Tesla Model S P85D.  That car is $85,900 + $4,295 GST = $90,195.

I need to spend another $36,195 on gas and oil to break even.  Every 8,000km I use 1,600L in gas and pay for a $100 oil change and put $25 towards a diff flush.  So that's $1,725 per 8,000km.  $36,000 / $1,720 x 8,000km = 166,956km.  So at 65,000km + 166,956km = 231,956km, I'd break even.  Lets call it 230,000km.  That's assuming I never pay for electricity.

Electricity costs about $0.05/kWh now.  The Tesla Model S P85D is rated to run 265 miles (425km) on an 85kWh charge, so that's 425km for $4.25.  230,000km / 425km x $4.25 = $2,300.  So at 230,000km, I'd still be in the black by a couple grand.

If I drive a typical 25,000km per year, and the batteries are warrantied for 8 years, then I can expect that the batteries will need to be swapped out at 200,000km, in other words before I've broken even.  And the battery packs are expected to cost $6,000 to $10,000 to replace.

Teslas and other partial- or fully-electric cars typically take a long, long time to pay off their investment.  Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of full-electric cars and I think Chevrolet has it exactly right with the Volt to add a gas-powered range extender to the car.  But they're a far cry from affordable replacement at this point.  As I showed above, the Model S P85D never actually breaks even against a V8-powered pickup truck, and it doesn't fit as many people as my truck, and it can't haul lumber or tow a giant trailer or drive through snowbanks.

Still, if I had a bucket of money just sitting around to spend on a car that expensive (meaning all my future bills and savings have been completely covered), I'd consider the Tesla Model S.  I'd get the P100D, though.  If you're gonna go big, might as well get the best.  Then again, I might just get a Nissan GT-R or the new Acura NSX or an Audi R8.

Since I don't have a bucket of money, I'll just stick with my truck and two used cars (the Mazda uses about 12L/100km, the Honda uses about 8L/100km, so driving them instead of the truck saves a boatload on gas).

Oh, and one complaint about that "almost no buttons, just a touchscreen".  Electronics are the weakest component on most cars.  Imagine not being able to close the sunroof because the touchscreen failed.

At least as far as the tesla S or X are concerned they are luxury high performance cars.

The model 3 will enter the market around 35-40k US with similar range options. The break even point will be much better.

Also all of the current and future  units are potentially capable of autonomous driving which is a fairly unique value feature.

[Tom]

Not to mention tesla's get regular firmware upgrades adding major new features or fixes. All while not having to go to a dealership to get them.

[Thorin]

The base Tesla Model 3 will be $35,000 USD with a (less-than) 60kWh battery.  Current exchange of 1 USD to 1.32 CAD, plus GST, means $47,775.  I think a comparable car size-wise would be a Honda Accord.  Let's say we get the Honda Accord Sport; that's $27,090 + GST = $28,445 (rounded).  It's rated at 9L/100km, so let's assume 12L/100km as the ratings are always low.  So $12/100km + $1/100km for oil changes = $13/100km.

Model 3 is expected to cost the same $0.01/km for electricity.

$47,775 - $28,445 = $19,330 / $13/100km = 148,690km (rounded).  So after 148,000km it's breakeven.  Except the $1,480 paid for the electricity; if you do the when-do-these-numbers-meet math, then it's about 160,000km.  Then you get 40,000km of driving cheaper than the Accord, then you need to buy a new battery pack at 200,000km for $6,000-$10,000.

Model 3 will have a range of 215 miles, or 345km.  That means I can drive to Calgary and make it to the hotel as the battery runs dry.  The Accord can drive me to Calgary, get me to the hotel, and then drive me home, all on one tank of gas.  If I drive extra somewhere and start with half a tank of gas, I don't need to sit for 30-60 minutes charging my car up halfway home (there's two supercharger stations in Red Deer now, I think?).

Now imagine doing all this math with a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla.

The breakeven is closer and the infrastructure is starting to come in Alberta, but looking at it from a pure numbers point of view it's not there yet.  I'm encouraged that Tesla is continuing to work on it, though.  It'll be cool when electric cars' breakeven is one or two years of ownership, when range is past 600km, and when plug-ins are absolutely everywhere.

The autonomous driving I'm not sold on, though.  When computers screw up, people get decapitated by trailers crossing their path (I linked the story).  Also, I actually enjoy driving.  If I wanted to just be driven around I would take the bus; much cheaper than paying for a personal bus.

edit: if we take Honda at face value and say the Accord actually will get 9L/100km, then the breakeven is around 214,000km

[Lazybones]

The Model 3 would be more comparable to a low end BMW, Acura or other premium line. At least on a technology level.

As for transit vs driving transit doesn't go on your schedule you go on it's.

[Tom]

The base Tesla Model 3 will be $35,000 USD with a (less-than) 60kWh battery.  Current exchange of 1 USD to 1.32 CAD, plus GST, means $47,775.  I think a comparable car size-wise would be a Honda Accord.  Let's say we get the Honda Accord Sport; that's $27,090 + GST = $28,445 (rounded).  It's rated at 9L/100km, so let's assume 12L/100km as the ratings are always low.  So $12/100km + $1/100km for oil changes = $13/100km.

Model 3 is expected to cost the same $0.01/km for electricity.

$47,775 - $28,445 = $19,330 / $13/100km = 148,690km (rounded).  So after 148,000km it's breakeven.  Except the $1,480 paid for the electricity; if you do the when-do-these-numbers-meet math, then it's about 160,000km.  Then you get 40,000km of driving cheaper than the Accord, then you need to buy a new battery pack at 200,000km for $6,000-$10,000.

Model 3 will have a range of 215 miles, or 345km.  That means I can drive to Calgary and make it to the hotel as the battery runs dry.  The Accord can drive me to Calgary, get me to the hotel, and then drive me home, all on one tank of gas.  If I drive extra somewhere and start with half a tank of gas, I don't need to sit for 30-60 minutes charging my car up halfway home (there's two supercharger stations in Red Deer now, I think?).

Now imagine doing all this math with a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla.

The breakeven is closer and the infrastructure is starting to come in Alberta, but looking at it from a pure numbers point of view it's not there yet.  I'm encouraged that Tesla is continuing to work on it, though.  It'll be cool when electric cars' breakeven is one or two years of ownership, when range is past 600km, and when plug-ins are absolutely everywhere.

The autonomous driving I'm not sold on, though.  When computers screw up, people get decapitated by trailers crossing their path (I linked the story).  Also, I actually enjoy driving.  If I wanted to just be driven around I would take the bus; much cheaper than paying for a personal bus.

edit: if we take Honda at face value and say the Accord actually will get 9L/100km, then the breakeven is around 214,000km

The driver screwed up more than the card did. It's not actual full autonomous yet, you have to pay attention or @%&# gonna happen.

[Thorin]

The Model 3 would be more comparable to a low end BMW, Acura or other premium line. At least on a technology level.

I would suggest looking at the actual content of the Tesla Model 3, the BMW 3-series, and the Honda Accord Sport.

Well, try to, anyway, it's difficult with the Model 3 because there's no authorized info on the content so we're left to guess based on pictures of pre-production cars.  It'll have an automatic transmission and power windows and mirrors.  It might get heated seats, and probably power seats although that's not confirmed.  It'll have collision avoidance software, although there's talk about all the extra software being available only as an up-charge.

The BMW 3-series: https://www.bmw.co.uk/dam/brandBM/marketGB/countryGB/newvehicles/3-series/saloon/2011/standard-spec/The-BMW-3-Series-Saloon-Touring-Standard-Specification-June-2015.pdf.resource.1434454068643.pdf.  Automatic AC (two zones), power windows, seats, mirrors, heated seats, mirrors, rain-sensing wipers, auto headlights, keyless start and auto start/stop, bluetooth- and USB-capable stereo.  Lots of other things listed that are typical on every car nowadays.  Manual transmission.

The Honda Accord Sport: http://honda.ca/ACCORD_SEDAN/specs.  Collision mitigation, forward collision warning, lane departure warning, road departure mitigation, adaptive cruise, lane keeping assist, blind spot display, auto AC (two zone), backup camera, power windows and mirrors, heated mirrors and seats, bluetooth stereo, auto headlights, pushbutton (aka keyless) start, telescopic steering.

Honestly, if you're just looking at the contents of the cars, the Accord Sport stacks up really well.

However, a lot of people think that the BMW 320i is better than the Honda Accord Sport.  Why?  Because it costs more, so other people think the driver has more to spend.  It's the same with the Tesla Model 3, from what I've read so far about it.  People are buying it not because they've done the math and can demonstrate it will cost them less, but because they want to portray a certain image.

But based on these criteria:
- does it fit my family?
- does it get me from A to B reliably and at a low cost?
- does it keep my family safe in a collision?
- is it comfortable to drive in or to ride in as a passenger, regardless of the weather?
- will it stay on the road if the road is icy?
- does the style not upset my sensibilities too bad?

I would rank the Honda Accord Sport above the other two.

And I say that as a car guy who loves new tech and new ideas and sport cars.

[Lazybones]

- does it fit my family?

Most likely and since there is no engine up front it will blow both of them out of the water in terms of storage with its FUNK.

- does it get me from A to B reliably and at a low cost?

- Cost per km is low
- No oil changes
- No transmission fluid changes
- No coolant changes
- based on S/X cars over all maintenance is very low
- breaks last longer due to regenerative breaking (based on S/X owners reports)

- does it keep my family safe in a collision?

- Model S and X hold top safety ratings for all normal collisions (driving under a tractor trailer is an exception). Model 3 is being designed to do the same.

- is it comfortable to drive in or to ride in as a passenger, regardless of the weather?

- The heating system in a Tesla doesn't wait for an engine, if it is plugged in you can pre-heat the car from the app. The lack of engine compartment extends the leg room in the front and in general should be very roomy.. I can go dig up info from the prototype road tests possibly.

- will it stay on the road if the road is icy?

Tesla s most sold car in norway, with proper ties the DUAL motor versions perform VERY well.

And I say that as a car guy who loves new tech and new ideas and sport cars.

As a guy into sports cars I am surprised you didn't note the 0-60 times of the Accord vs the BMW or any of the Telas. We don't have numbers for the 3 yet but it will be under 6s according to expected specs.. Most Tesla's are way faster than that. It will likely crush everything at the lights in its price class. Telas however do lack top speed but you need to go to the track to test that for the most part.

[Thorin]

I think I've shown that the low cost-per-km eventually breaks even with the huge initial purchase cost, assuming that one doesn't need to purchase a new battery pack.  One of the still-outstanding questions is what kind of resale value the car will have when it's time to replace the battery pack, given the high cost of batteries still.  Over ten years, will it break even?  Well, depends on how much you drive (if you drive more, it should, if you drive less, it likely won't), and the calculation is complicated by battery pack cost, resale cost, and typical IC engine repair costs (for the non-Teslas).

Not sure why you picked Norway's sales data to push Tesla, but the Tesla S is definitely not the most sold car there (or anywhere else).  In Norway, the top car is the VW Golf in its various forms, although after the emissions cheating scandal VW will probably drop in market position and likely Toyota will take over for 2017.  This is probably because a typical Tesla S is triple the price of a typical VW Golf.  http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2017/01/norway-full-year-2016-golf-1-mitsubishi-outlander-bmw-i3-shine/

Yes, you can get all-wheel-drive Teslas with dual electric motors.  I'm just looking at the Canadian Tesla site, the cheapest you can get the AWD model is the Tesla S 60D: $99,600.  That's $104,580 after GST.  That's hella expensive.  And if you look on the site, there's a range estimator; the 60D at 120km/h (typical highway speed going to Calgary) at -10 (won't let you go colder) with the heat on (it's -10, the heat's going to be on) goes 247km on a charge (versus the 351km range claimed).  Enhanced Autopilot is listed as another $7,100, Full Self-Driving is another $4,300, the Premium Package is another $5,000, the Sub-Zero Weather Package is $1,400...  That $100k price climbs awfully fast, and the 60D can't even do a road trip to Calgary in the winter without stopping to charge on the way.

All Tesla Xes are AWD.  The cheapest is the 75D, starting at $116,200.  It's clearly intended as the family vehicle, with the seven-seat option (only $5,600).  The stupidest claim about that car is that the Falcon Wing doors make it so that you can get in and out in a spot where traditional sliding doors on a minivan would not work; this is then followed by the claim that the Falcon Wing doors only need a foot of clearance.  Sliding doors on minivans take less than six inches of clearance, but even at a foot of space between your car and the next, a parent might not be able to shimmy between them to reach the child to get them buckled in.

As a guy into sports cars, I didn't note the 0-60 times because that is a nice-to-have.  What do you get from a car that can accelerate faster, other than the boost to your ego?  Every emergency situation that I've been in where speed has mattered, it's always been about shedding speed as fast as possible, not gaining speed.

Like I said earlier, doing a pure numbers comparison all of the Teslas are projecting to cost more (due to initial purchase price) over similar-sized cars.  They are closer in price to premium vehicles like BMWs or Mercedes or Audis, but that's because the prices on these cars are higher due to the cachet (i.e. boost to your ego that owning them provides), not because these cars offer any substantial advantage in the basic requirements of a car (safe, comfortable, reliable transportation).  Paying more for cachet is not a good financial decision, it's an emotional decision, and that's why all the car ads try to connect emotionally to potential buyers.

And like I said earlier, if I had a bucket of money that I can blow because I no longer need to worry about today's and tomorrow's and next year's bills, I might buy a Tesla S.  Although I might just as likely buy a sports car that requires more attention and input.  I like rowing gears, I like heel-toe shifting, I'd love to learn how to do rally-style drifts in FWD cars at high speeds, I'd love to learn how to properly drift, I'd love to learn the classic Porsche 911 back-end-got-out-too-far-so-do-a-360-to-regain-control move that their test pilots perfected.  I'd love to get a couple of real 4x4s with air lockers front and rear and go exploring in the wilderness, drive up rocky stream beds that I could barely walk.  I'd love to get an 8x8 or 12x12 expedition vehicle and just cross Patagonia in it, going wherever there aren't any roads.  I look at Tesla and their only-one-gear, we'll-even-drive-for-you car and think, "how boring".

If the price comes down enough that the breakeven compared to a non-luxury brand is 75,000km, it'll make financial sense to me and I'll probably end up getting a Tesla.

[Tom]

I think I've shown that the low cost-per-km eventually breaks even with the huge initial purchase cost, assuming that one doesn't need to purchase a new battery pack.

Same could be said for regular cars. Assuming you don't need to replace a ball joint, axle, engine, head, pistons, radiator, transmission, etc.