ArenaNet Suspends Players For Lack Of Common Decency

[Tom]

Going back to my original statement; Who makes these decency rules and how are they enforced. Where are the checks and balances. How does suspending players actually serve the community?

From the sounds of things NCSoft are being fairly heavy handed suspending people for even slight infractions during the pre-release in the hope that it will make things friendly by force, I've yet to see this be a sustainable pattern anywhere and it does nothing to address the real problems.

Sure I believe in banning/suspending people if they deserve it for actions they commit like cheating, damaging the game or griefing (or what have you), but for @%&# they say over group chat? User names? Ridiculous!

I know NCSoft has the right to do this, again, their sandbox their rules. But at the same time there is something distinctly hollow about a community that relies on morality police to keep things in line for them rather than maintaining their own level of dignity.

We should probably agree to disagree. I don't like having to put up with some d-bag assaulting me and other people. Many times things those ass-hats say is /actually/ illegal. Threats and extreme verbal abuse is never a good thing, and should not be tolerated in any shape or form. I don't see anything wrong with giving out warnings early and often to head off the nastier @%&#.

And really, most complaints you're likely to even see are going to be so blown out of proportion because the people getting these warnings do that sort of thing. They be ass-hats, then complain loudly at getting punished for being ass-hats. Like some how they have a right to threaten and verbally abuse other people.

[Mr. Analog]

Well, not really; the rules of conduct are applied to the community not fostered by it, ideally the latter would preclude the need for the former.

Like I say I'm surprised that this is such a hot button issue already and it makes me wonder what's going on in there.

[Tom]

Well, not really; the rules of conduct are applied to the community not fostered by it, ideally the latter would preclude the need for the former.

Like I say I'm surprised that this is such a hot button issue already and it makes me wonder what's going on in there.

Typical internet ass-hats.



So you are of the opinion that someone standing on a street corner (that you pass every day) spouting threats and verbal abuse to everyone who walks by should never have a talking to by the police? Its the same thing. Both are public. Both involve the same ass-hatery.

[Mr. Analog]

Yes, I come from a strange world where I can tolerate someone else's crazy bull@%&# ranting.

I'd much rather live in a world where people feel free to say what think no matter how @%&#ed up it is than have them muzzled due to some form of societal consensus.

[Tom]

Yes, I come from a strange world where I can tolerate someone else's crazy bull@%&# ranting.

I'd much rather live in a world where people feel free to say what think no matter how @%&#ed up it is than have them muzzled due to some form of societal consensus.

So threats and abuse are fine? what about physical violence? I personally don't see much difference between physical and mental abuse. Both are equally bad.

[Mr. Analog]

Those are two completely different things.

[Tom]

Those are two completely different things.

Not to me they aren't. Abuse is abuse.

I suppose "Mental Disability" is also not a real disability in your view?

[Mr. Analog]

Those are two completely different things.

Not to me they aren't. Abuse is abuse.

I suppose "Mental Disability" is also not a real disability in your view?

Talking all day about robbing a bank is different than actually robbing a bank, should you be arrested for talking about it? Harassment is much more than spewing filth on a street corner or spamming global chat with obscenity.

I don't even know how you got to the second part, don't put words into my mouth.

[Tom]

Those are two completely different things.

Not to me they aren't. Abuse is abuse.

I suppose "Mental Disability" is also not a real disability in your view?

Talking all day about robbing a bank is different than actually robbing a bank, should you be arrested for talking about it? Harassment is much more than spewing filth on a street corner or spamming global chat with obscenity.

I don't even know how you got to the second part, don't put words into my mouth.

Because you don't seem to think mental abuse is a thing. Which would lead me to think that you don't think anything "mental" related is a thing either.

I was rather maliciously bullied (mentally and physically, but mostly mentally) in school (not to mention various mental games my brother played, and my dad being a drunk half my life). The bruises from various encounters went away, but the mental marks? I'm still dealing with them to this day, and will continue for quite some time. Even physical violence is a form of mental violence. In the end it leads to the same place.

Anyone who thinks mental/verbal abuse isn't at least as serious as physical abuse is very misguided.

I need to take a step away from this thread for a bit. 

[Darren Dirt]

I think a community that does nothing to keep itself adhered to some set of standards is no community at all.

well put!

Talking all day about robbing a bank is different than actually robbing a bank, should you be arrested for talking about it?

During lunch I was watching some Louis CK videos. He's still not in prison for the things he says and says he thinks about (including towards/about his kids). Obviously talking about stuff != doing that stuff. I think in privately owned communities there's an expectation by most "commonly decent" participants that the community will not become a place of offensiveness and discomfort and outright abuse (including verbal). The internet gaming community is a bit of an abnormality compared to most of the RL, though.

So this hot thread gonna cool down now I guess... (sorry Tom, I'm also really sensitive to verbal stuff even when it's clearly not gonna escalate to physical ; definitely something I've been recently dealing with directly in group).

[Mr. Analog]

Mental abuse like you are talking about is the result of harassment, not free speech. There is a distinction between the two.

[Thorin]

My take of the statements that people have been suspended for has been that it is not free speech, but rather hate speech, generally aimed at demeaning and insulting those it has been aimed at.  This is based mainly on reading the two thousand or so replies to the Reddit thread I linked at the start, but also on reading some other comments at Kotaku and on personal blogs.

Maybe you haven't read what people are _actually_ getting suspended for, and are instead going by what the (allegedly) suspended have _claimed_ they're being suspended for?  One of the problems that has been reported now is that there are people claiming to have been suspended who don't even appear to have an account, just because they appear to want to join in causing mayhem.

[Mr. Analog]

Oh I read the Reddit link, I read the original article and I've been following with great amusement comments I'm seeing in various gaming forums (as a former GW player I've held some interest in this game).

The main point that I've seen so far is that the system in place is trying to automate the work of moderators, frankly I'm surprised how widespread this is already (I keep saying this), it makes me wonder what the heck is going on.

I'm sure more than a few users are being legitimately suspended/banned for harassing people no doubt, but from what I've read some users are getting suspensions for relatively innocuous comments or other more nebulous reasons.

This totally smacks of overloaded moderators who are cracking down hard on anything.

Of course I'm not in the pre-release and don't have access to the inside scoop so I can't say if this is just people squawking loudly over nothing or what. The original GW didn't have any major issues with jerks, so, like I say I'm curious about WTF is really going on in there.

[Tom]

I'm betting its loud squawking. It's been popping up more and more in the gaming sphere. Some people think they have a right to things, or to do things, and when they find out they don't, they scream bloody murder.