youtube interface changes?

Darren Dirt · November 07, 2013, 12:05:37 PM

Quote
I'm not a big fan of comment systems like Gawker's Kinja or the upcoming YouTube refresh. The reason why is simple; once one thread gets promoted to the top, every comment written afterward - no matter how well-reasoned or astute - is bumped to the bottom and ignored unless it's a reply to one of the top-rated comments. Creates a kind of a "snooze, you lose" situation where you're forced to take your position at the head of the line if you want to start a discussion that receives any attention at all. At least sorting by latest post keeps things fresh instead of letting one or two people set the pace. 9/24/13 10:23pm

- "Train Dodger" in a Gizmodo discussion thread, which is part of the Gawker network... where they also too-easily HIDE most of a conversations until you click "show".

Maybe now's the time to install this extension... would result in an improved User Experience imo.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/herp-derp-for-youtube/ioomnmgjblnnolpdgdhebainmfbipjoh/details

Quote from: Mr. Analog on November 07, 2013, 11:58:56 AM
I don't know why they would want to turn over the applecart like this either, it literally makes no sense

Meanwhile other serious problems with video playback / client / browser support go unfixed.

Yeah, yet another "nobody asked for this" feature-add aka random-justification ball-dropping by Google!

I mean you force this down everybody's throats, and yet you put out optional "can only add to the User Experience" stuff like "Active Sharing" and then just let it disappear down The Memory Hole...

It's like The Big G doesn't give a crap anymore; is there something they know that we don't?

Mr. Analog · November 07, 2013, 12:37:33 PM

I look at it this way too comments have been broken on YouTube for a long time but this charge makes everything worse

Like the changes to Gmail

Like the loss of Google labs...

Mr. Analog · November 07, 2013, 01:08:19 PM

Don't get used to Windows-based local extensions for Chrome!

http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/11/07/google-block-local-chrome-extensions-windows-starting-january-limit-installs-chrome-web-store/

Darren Dirt · November 07, 2013, 01:48:03 PM

Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 11:51:14 AM
Okay so I can see it IS threaded (and not just in the All Comments, but in the main page too; okay so that's good) ...

Oops. Maybe not. Or maybe not consistently anyway.

Both of these URLs, a very glaring absence of indenting, i.e. no obvious visible indication that "this comment is a reply to X"... and this is whether you choose "Top Comments" OR "Newest First".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VTM-LItMHI
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=7VTM-LItMHI

And yet you can plainly see that some of the comments ARE in reply to another comment:

Quote
Grenn14711 year ago

Why is the White House so dark?

Grenn14712 months agoin reply to daophos

Ahhh, plot lights. I see. Or, I almost see.

daophos2 months agoin reply to Grenn1471

Like the X Files. You seem serious when you're using dark.

Fail.
As a developer, I'm all like "how could you code it so it works sometimes but not other times?" I mean, it DOES still kinda work in the "heavy conversation" videos. Except when it doesn't.

Tom · November 07, 2013, 01:54:05 PM

What annoys me the most about the recent youtube changes is that it @%&#ing keeps asking me to switch to my G+ account. I've said NO about a billion times. Yes, I have it attached, as its the same email address, but I've told it time and time again that I want to keep using my original Youtube persona.

Also, that for some reason, my media box won't respect that "load in hd by default" setting. it /always/ starts in 480p and I hate it. Their player can really be a complete cluster-@%&#.

Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Darren Dirt on November 07, 2013, 11:51:14 AM
Okay so I can see it IS threaded (and not just in the All Comments, but in the main page too; okay so that's good) ...

Oops. Maybe not. Or maybe not consistently anyway.

Both of these URLs, a very glaring absence of indenting, i.e. no obvious visible indication that "this comment is a reply to X"... and this is whether you choose "Top Comments" OR "Newest First".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VTM-LItMHI
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=7VTM-LItMHI

And yet you can plainly see that some of the comments ARE in reply to another comment:
Quote
Grenn14711 year ago

Why is the White House so dark?

Grenn14712 months agoin reply to daophos

Ahhh, plot lights. I see. Or, I almost see.

daophos2 months agoin reply to Grenn1471

Like the X Files. You seem serious when you're using dark.

Fail.
As a developer, I'm all like "how could you code it so it works sometimes but not other times?" I mean, it DOES still kinda work in the "heavy conversation" videos. Except when it doesn't.

As youtube has been working on the commenting system they completely broke the threading. it's supposed to do it properly, but its been 100% broken for a week or two now.

I would have expected it to un-bork with the new roll-out, but hey, this is the new google, the one that doesn't care about rolling out completely broken code to production.

Darren Dirt · November 07, 2013, 02:01:35 PM

^ yeah except it's NOT "100%" broken, it's more like "unknown%" broken.

Because in the 1-minute-sales-pitch video I linked to above, there is visually-obvious indenting A-PLENTY. So the code works, just for some weird reason it isn't always called, or called correctly, or ??insertStupidReasonHere??... If there was no indenting anywhere, fine, the "threaded view" is messed up at the root, fix it and we're all a little less cranky. But nope, the Google Suits probably can point to certain videos and say "whatchatalkinbout? It works fine!" and will take many days or weeks before they acknowledge just how badly they shattered one of the remaining stable[-ish] legs on this table that we all have been happy to use for many years ... but are being driven by situations like this to maybe re-consider the possibility of giving YT the "Myspace" treatment -- there's always something out there that is cleaner and more attractive to casual participants. YT is really pushing their luck...

The thing I personally do ALL THE TIME for Youtube is I find a funny/interesting comment, and I would like to see what was said in response to it. Now I literally have to do a text search in my web browser for that poster's name, and hope I can see a handful of entertaining replies to it -- unless the video is one of The Privileged Few that has the threaded view actually working.

Tom · November 07, 2013, 02:12:09 PM

MY hunch is that older comments are perma-broken. From the past couple weeks where they were rolling out new, and untested code that was part of the new commenting system.. The NEW commenting system should hopefully not be broken. but this is the new google we're talking about. they are not afraid of releasing broken code on youtube. in fact they seem to prefer doing so.

Darren Dirt · November 08, 2013, 10:47:40 AM

Quote from: Tom on November 07, 2013, 02:12:09 PM
MY hunch is that older comments are perma-broken. From the past couple weeks where they were rolling out new, and untested code that was part of the new commenting system.. The NEW commenting system should hopefully not be broken. but this is the new google we're talking about. they are not afraid of releasing broken code on youtube. in fact they seem to prefer doing so.

Yeah I suspect that too. My guess is some new metadata is stored for any "new" comments, and the code is STUPID -- it says "if that new metadata is found then do threading functionality and G+ crap and whatever else, else FAIL LIKE A FAILING FAIL OF A FAIL". Instead of being smartly backward-compatible, or AT LEAST doing a database update of all of the old comments to contain that new metadata... I mean seriously, the old beta "threaded view" worked fine with old comments, so why not use that old code to do a mass update of comments to the new back-end format? #ezSolution

Mr. Analog · November 08, 2013, 10:53:29 AM

There's another mobile client app update coming, I suspect they are trying to fix it

Tom · November 08, 2013, 11:11:31 AM

I rarely use the mobile client. It's pretty sucky to use. the web app has still gotten worse, but they sorta fixed some of the problems they introduced with the attempt to bump "my subscriptions" down and prioritize the "what to watch" crap. They moved the subscriptions link back up to the main section. So its not too bad.

Lazybones · November 08, 2013, 12:18:29 PM

From an announcement over at Feedly, it sounds like Google is dropping its Open OAuth support in favor of its own native Google+ account authentication.

Mr. Analog · November 08, 2013, 12:19:35 PM

Ahh it all comes together now, okay.

Tom · November 08, 2013, 01:13:51 PM

Man, a lot of places use the OAuth support. That really sucks, now you absolutely have to tie those sites to your G+ account. Ick.

They are being super heavy handed with G+.

Mr. Analog · November 08, 2013, 01:16:17 PM

Trust me I'm looking for alternatives for e-mail/video already

This aggression will not like, uhh, stand man

Tom · November 08, 2013, 01:25:47 PM

So, I've been working on my email server lately. The original plan was to host it on Digital Ocean, but I don't know if that's a viable option re: NSA bull crap. I have a new dedicated server leased here in canada which is /slightly/ better than in the us that I'm thinking I might move it to.

Anyone who is interested in an account, let me know. It doesn't (yet) encrypt stored mail, but it doesn't support http access to the web mail, or plain text SMTP/IMAP/POP3 for user's use. And it strongly prefers TLS for incoming SMTP.

Sadly there is no option for video as the stuff on youtube that I watch just isn't put anywhere else.